Aerial Attack Move: Unecessarily Annoying

[Henji]

I`ve been waiting, as proboly many people, for the chance to finaly take out flying enemies with a decent aerial move while using their melee attacks. 

Its realy great to use it dont get me wrong, its helping me a whole lot specialy with the traps from the grineer doors. 

But what Im founding frustrating now is how it was implemented. 

To keep it simple, its a good addition placed in the wrong way, you can do aerial attacks majesticly slaughtering ospreys but it ends up sacreficing the simplicity of just hitting the ground with your weapon when you need that slight advantage against overhelming numbers or those freaking annoying knockbackers we all love and hate...hate mostly.

 

I think there should be something to seperate both move sets instead of u just having to work on the camera to propely use one or the other or just keep the melee button pressed so u use one ability then the other wich is not all but but annoying if u time it wrong. 

I checked for different ways to use both attacks more efficiently in battle and from what I could come up with it remind me to the stances system, more specificaly the defense combo moves. It would be so much more simple to use both aerial and ground slam moves if they could be seperated by just clicking the defense button.

 

That way if we wanted to make a ground slam attack we would simply use it as we always did by default and if we wanted to  go for the aerial move we would simply have to use the defense button while using the jump and melee action buttons.

Hope you guys share the same idea, if you guys have other suggestions or any updates about the new move that I`ve might have missed please leave a comment and a +1 to in the topic. 


EDIT: Please refer your opinions based on your own control system (Mouse and Keyboard or Controller). 


 

Edited October 29, 2014 by Henji

[YouHaveShamedYoFamory]

agreed

[SwiftPotato12]

Well if you could articulate your problem with it I might agree. It can be a tad annoying to soar past an enemy while trying to ground slam, its just something to adjust to.

[MumblesMcphatty]

To clarify - are you using gamepad or M&K?

 

From a m&k perspective - I don't see how your suggestion makes it simpler or easier. I can understand you & others being upset about making the adjustment - but what you suggest is definitely not an improvement over the new implementation.

 

As it stands -  a simple flick of the mouse wrist will decide which move occurs.

While your suggestion - implies another set of control options consisting of painfully held down mouse buttons & keys, while trying to spam one in particular.

 

Which of course would be added on top of the existing controls - which are convoluted as hell and the vanilla mapping was apparently done by a blind 3-fingered monkey. Do you see the problem yet?

[Ry0K3N]

"sacreficing the simplicity of just hitting the ground with your weapon when you need that slight advantage against overhelming numbers or those freaking annoying knockbackers we all love and hate...hate mostly."

 

I dont get it. What is so hard about jumping and while looking down pushing a button to do ground slam?

[Henji]

To clarify - are you using gamepad or M&K?

 

From a m&k perspective - I don't see how your suggestion makes it simpler or easier. I can understand you & others being upset about making the adjustment - but what you suggest is definitely not an improvement over the new implementation.

 

As it stands -  a simple flick of the mouse wrist will decide which move occurs.

While your suggestion - implies another set of control options consisting of painfully held down mouse buttons & keys, while trying to spam one in particular.

 

Which of course would be added on top of the existing controls - which are convoluted as hell and the vanilla mapping was apparently done by a blind 3-fingered monkey. Do you see the problem yet?

 

"sacreficing the simplicity of just hitting the ground with your weapon when you need that slight advantage against overhelming numbers or those freaking annoying knockbackers we all love and hate...hate mostly."

 

I dont get it. What is so hard about jumping and while looking down pushing a button to do ground slam?

I understand you guys point of view, but giving a example of why aerial attack can get problematic: In higher tier missions, speed is crucial, having to figure out the best timing for u to use your aerial strike while keeping the action button pressed to land the ground slam move can make the difference between life and death there, specialy with the knock backers as I mentioned above.

The camera movement is not a good solution because I think this becomes not only counter intuitive but slow the pace of your moves and aiming during the fight with that said it can get pretty fast depending on the mission, plus it gets annoying if you aim it wrong wich ends up making you going for the wrong move (ex: ground slaming instead of aerial striking a osprey due to bad camera positioning.) clarifying, too much movement for litte result.Plus there is the possibility of  increased eye fatigue if the the camera movement becomes too fast and frequent, could be wrong on this one but thought would be a good reason.

And the new keybind I proposed was for you to simply add an extra button to seperate both attacks wich wouldn`t be painfull to use considering that for those that work primaly with their melee stance its almost taboo compared to the channeling attack wich is, at least for me. most of the time pressed so I can deal extra damage during this mode. At least for me when I come to think of it is rather simpler this way and more intuitive.

And again, I totaly respect you guys opinions this is merely for the sake  of better clarify what I proposed above.

And yes, I use M&K

Edited October 27, 2014 by Henji

[MumblesMcphatty]

And the new keybind I proposed was for you to simply add an extra button to seperate both attacks wich wouldn`t be painfull to use considering that for those that work primaly with their melee stance its almost taboo compared to the channeling attack wich is, at least for me. most of the time pressed so I can deal extra damage during this mode. At least for me when I come to think of it is rather simpler this way and more intuitive.

 

 

Apologies - I'm having a hard time understanding what you're implying. This could be due to the fact I moved pretty much every keybind after the tutorial and set everything I could to toggle. I only say this because I have zero memory of what its like to play 'normally' and am not understanding your specific issues with the new setup - nor exactly what additional layer of controls you're suggesting. For example - I don't remember where Channel is supposed to be originally - I couldn't comprehend why attack/block weren't together on the mouse - and I moved block to RMB immediately.

 

To be clear - my initial perception of the controls is that there are far too many buttons that need to be held down - while pressing others - and they are all in the wrong place IMO. I'm not gonna ramble about my keybindings here - just trying to convey my perspective so I can better understand yours :)

 

As I interpret what you're suggesting - we should replace a slight right hand movement - which is separate from button pushing - with more button pushing?

 

Could your issues in fact have more to do with the "Auto-Align Camera on Target" toggle that is in the gameplay settings? Because I can see that not gelling well with the new melee movement at all. Luckily - I turned that off the moment I saw it - that kind of setting is fine for low sensitivity gamepad users but certainly a hindrance for M&K.

 

Personally - the new melee movement is fine - except in certain situations I think the angle & move decision needs to be finetuned. Say you are in midair at the top of some steps and you wish to close the distance with an enemy at the bottom. if your crosshair centre on him - you'll just ground pound the step directly below you - instead of getting anywhere near the target. Because technically you were looking down?!

 

That is - so far - the only circumstance where the new setup doesn't function efficiently for me. Certainly - what you suggest would deal with this - I'm just not 100% that MOAR BUTTONZ is preferable over adjusting how you play and waiting patiently for that muscle-memory to get realigned.

[Henji]

Could your issues in fact have more to do with the "Auto-Align Camera on Target" toggle that is in the gameplay settings? Because I can see that not gelling well with the new melee movement at all. Luckily - I turned that off the moment I saw it - that kind of setting is fine for low sensitivity gamepad users but certainly a hindrance for M&K.

 

Personally - the new melee movement is fine - except in certain situations I think the angle & move decision needs to be finetuned. Say you are in midair at the top of some steps and you wish to close the distance with an enemy at the bottom. if your crosshair centre on him - you'll just ground pound the step directly below you - instead of getting anywhere near the target. Because technically you were looking down?!

 

I do use the auto align camera function (you got me there since I didnt knew about it but already tested it) and I didnt saw any changes to the way the attack functions because independently you still need to bring the camera down to use the slam attack or keep the action button (E by default) pressed and make both attacks happen being aerial strike the first one to happen obviously.

The problem I do have is that they actualy use just one button to peform both attacks wich is the melee (since jump is a must for both moves to happen so I dont account it in the action of these actions)

Now I have to beg your pardon about that cause I didn`t considered that while outside of the melee stance you also use the aerial strike move and by using the right mouse button (defense in melee stance by default) this can cause another issue due to the aim system, although this could be solved if added another function that would be toggle aim with the middle mouse button and make the melee defense also avaible in outside of the melee stance, wich would be welcomed too i belive.

For sake of clarification this would be left for the players discretion if they would want to keep this current system for outside the melee stance or change it to better suit their needs this therefore may be a solution for not only this issue but proboly to others that the community might have and make the gameplay even more diverse in the process.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Henji

[WolfEcho]

I don't have a problem with the current setup while I use mouse and keyboard, infact, I love the new system. It takes a few tries to get used to yea but its awesome. This way I can easily take out corprus cameras and grineer door scanners without having to switch to ranged weapons in the middle of battle, also during defence and survival missions the new arial attack helps me cover ground and perform a ground slam in the middle of a large group of enemies.

 

Previously you had to run to a group, position yourself in the middle, jump and slam which takes longer and if your outnumbered, it chomps through your shields fast. Also those corprus flying shield generators can be taken care of much easier now, plus they tend to hang around the middle of a group with means... easy take out with arial attack followed by ground slam for max damage. Why do you want to complicate it even more with button combos like blocking for ground slam? Heck half the time in battle I'm blocking so that setup would just make it worse, its fine as it is you just need practice to get perfect at it.

 

However, something that needs to be addressed is the problems with blocking. I use only swords, I block most of the time but for some reason while I'm running and blocking with right mouse button, my warframe just stops blocking at some points and I take massive damage while I'm still holding the block key... I'd like that to change to a more consistent block without auto-stop half way.

[carbondragon]

I`ve been waiting, as proboly many people, for the chance to finaly take out flying enemies with a decent aerial move while using their melee attacks. 

Its realy great to use it dont get me wrong, its helping me a whole lot specialy with the traps from the grineer doors. 

But what Im founding frustrating now is how it was implemented. 

To keep it simple, its a good addition placed in the wrong way, you can do aerial attacks majesticly slaughtering ospreys but it ends up sacreficing the simplicity of just hitting the ground with your weapon when you need that slight advantage against overhelming numbers or those freaking annoying knockbackers we all love and hate...hate mostly.

 

I think there should be something to seperate both move sets instead of u just having to work on the camera to propely use one or the other or just keep the melee button pressed so u use one ability then the other wich is not all but but annoying if u time it wrong. 

I checked for different ways to use both attacks more efficiently in battle and from what I could come up with it remind me to the stances system, more specificaly the defense combo moves. It would be so much more simple to use both aerial and ground slam moves if they could be seperated by just clicking the defense button.

 

That way if we wanted to make a ground slam attack we would simply use it as we always did by default and if we wanted to  go for the aerial move we would simply have to use the defense button while using the jump and melee action buttons.

Hope you guys share the same idea, if you guys have other suggestions or any updates about the new move that I`ve might have missed please leave a comment and a +1 to in the topic. 

 

 

I'm still trying to figure out why the lunge is in the basic, non-equipped stance moveset anyway. Seems a little counterintuitive to need to hit a flyer if you have your gun out anyway.

 

In other news, the thing is kind of borked. I was stuck in a mission just now where every time I melee'd, I lunged. Got really annoying as hitting anything when you're constantly flying everywhere is just a taaaaad difficult.

[WolfEcho]

Reasons why lunge was added:

 

1. When playing with "melee only" style you couldn't take down fliers without great difficulty

2. Grineer ventilation ducts have broken vans that require you to awkwardly position directly in front of them to be able to hit them, jump+hit ground slam did not break them most of the time

3. The lunge attack does some extra damage and covers a bit of ground, very useful for defence and survival with large clustered mobs when your out of ammo (movement+ground slam)

 

It's not that difficult to alternate between the two moves, jump+tap E (while holding a directional button to go in specific direction) for lunge or jump+hold E while mouse cursor is pointing the the floor below you for ground slam (don't press the movement buttons if you want to ground slam directly down) or jump+tap E for lunge and then hold E while still in the air for lunge followed by ground slam. controller users may have some difficulty with this I guess, but it would be more difficult if you threw in extra buttons for alternating between attacks.

 

As for making it a seperate stance, that would be silly. Stance mods add a couple of combo moves for it's specific weapon type, where each of the weapon types already have a stance mod associated to it and a list of combos. If it were to be added to a stance, you would be depriving "melee only" players a useful move as they would have to farm for the mod first, and for it to be functional you would have to use extra key presses anyway due to the current combo lists.

Edited October 29, 2014 by WolfEcho

[Henji]

Reasons why lunge was added:

 

1. When playing with "melee only" style you couldn't take down fliers without great difficulty

2. Grineer ventilation ducts have broken vans that require you to awkwardly position directly in front of them to be able to hit them, jump+hit ground slam did not break them most of the time

3. The lunge attack does some extra damage and covers a bit of ground, very useful for defence and survival with large clustered mobs when your out of ammo (movement+ground slam)

 

It's not that difficult to alternate between the two moves, jump+tap E (while holding a directional button to go in specific direction) for lunge or jump+hold E while mouse cursor is pointing the the floor below you for ground slam (don't press the movement buttons if you want to ground slam directly down) or jump+tap E for lunge and then hold E while still in the air for lunge followed by ground slam. controller users may have some difficulty with this I guess, but it would be more difficult if you threw in extra buttons for alternating between attacks.

 

As for making it a seperate stance, that would be silly. Stance mods add a couple of combo moves for it's specific weapon type, where each of the weapon types already have a stance mod associated to it and a list of combos. If it were to be added to a stance, you would be depriving "melee only" players a useful move as they would have to farm for the mod first, and for it to be functional you would have to use extra key presses anyway due to the current combo lists.

I`ll start by saying that im not looking to add this as a alternate stance, thats not what i meant there, what I meant is that adding a extra key wich is the defense button wich is the right mouse button by default for M&K players.

Secondly I agree with all the 3 points u made in the begining of your post but as I said in a previously post in this thread, its not only counter intuitive but also can be more annoying then its worth, in higher tiers this can bring problems and even visual disconfort if played by prolonged hours. 

Survival missions and defense missions take from 30 to 60 mins per mission/ key to be finnished and having to deal with high tiers is not a easy job specialy if you play melee oriented as I do. 

It brings a situation that forces the player to rely on movement of the camera that can interfere in a planned attack to deal with a huge mob of rank 40 grineer or worse corpus if its not planned right. 

And one thing im going to edit in my topic is to specify your comments to M&K only, I dont know how this affect them so I wont voice my opinion about it, if you dont know as well please dont bring this in the discussion because it wont help bring a solution and wont reinforce any statement. 

Now if you or anyone else is a controller player by all means bring your opinion about how this affects your gameplay, otherwise, just dont, let them do their own point of view.

 

[ChaosMaster130]

Personally, I would like a toggle in the gameplay options that makes it so you only do air lunges if you're holding a direction when you melee in the air, other wise you just do a slam attack.

 

Just my 2 cents anyway.