Blatantfool Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 This is true but from what this dude describes he wasnt a work and when he came home he found out. He specifically said he was running something that probably lead to the ban. Mak is right. False positives happen - but the OP isn't a result of a False positive. The game noticed a program it had flagged doing its thing and it reacted like it was designed. Doesn't mean anything. "Common sense" is highly subjective when different companies have different rules. What if I never played SOE or Nexon games? Give me proof that a majority of games have the same principle and you can call it common sense. But even then it is irrelevant because that is not what I'm questioning. But it is. You said the following. I'm questioning the anti-cheat system DE decided to employ To which I replied with the fact that, from the game's perspective, it isn't important what the program is doing. Only that it is running right then and there and that it has that program flagged. It hit the OP with a Banhammer. It doesn't matter what he was doing - the Anti-cheat can't be expected to be able to detect all forms of intrusion anyway. It just knew that the program was going and has been told to smack it with the hammer. The EULA backs this sort of thing up. You could be banned for not looking good enough wearing pink shorts and you'd have to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flunkymomo Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 RIP op. a free spirite borne from this wonderful game before his time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphticon Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I just noticed this: 2. Digital Extremes owns every aspect of the game Warframe. No created content, weapons, names, accounts, or any items within the game belong to the account holder. The game license between you and Warframe is limited and does not grant you any ownership rights for the Open Beta or the Game. A little rough but it shows that DE owns everything including your account and thus it being banned is like selling your own item on eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) I just noticed this: 2. Digital Extremes owns every aspect of the game Warframe. No created content, weapons, names, accounts, or any items within the game belong to the account holder. The game license between you and Warframe is limited and does not grant you any ownership rights for the Open Beta or the Game. A little rough but it shows that DE owns everything including your account and thus it being banned is like selling your own item on eBay That is really common. That same phrasing will pop up in: -Firefall -Vindictus -Maple Story -Runescape (lol, no really.) -WoW -LoL ect, ect, ect. In fact - the only game in recent memory I don't remember seeing similar wording is Valve's DotA2 and TF2 - since the hats ARE considered your property, funnily enough. That is why you have the right to sell them. Edited April 25, 2013 by Blatantfool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestiae Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I'm sorry, but most of those I've seen that get perma-banned from video games are guilty of two things: 1. Doing something bad. 2. Lying about it on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinrelis Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 So I had warframe running in the background to see alerts while I was playing a flash game. I ran a 'cheat program' to try and skip grinding in the flash game, it didnt work so I closed it without doing anything. Now I'm banned from Warframe till 2035. Then I came here and saw the warning in the hours old update. Take the warning literally, it's the equivalent of (in a hypothetical situation) having your steam account banned because it detected a bittorrent client on your computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainDreamer Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) While I am not going to defend for the OP, since, well, it is best not to run any 'cheating program' along with online games in the first place, I still think there should not be automated perma ban though (2035 is basically perma ban), maybe 3 days ban, that gets pile up as it catches you attempting to cheat again. So 3 days, 7 days, 2 weeks, one month, 3 months, 6 months, and such. Unless there has been conclusive evidence viewed by a human admin, there shouldn't be instant perma ban after 1 occurrence. Edited April 25, 2013 by RainDreamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trayder Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 I agree with most of you in that yeah, running a cheat program in the background is a risk you just shouldn't take. To my knowledge it's usually really easy to detect a malicious use of something like Cheat Engine rather than it's simple running (the program doesn't attempt to hide itself in any way like an actual hack would). The most basic anti-cheat technology (that I'm sure they've also got implemented) looks for discrepancies between the client and server. If I were to hack my memory so my client reports to the server that my credits are now 999,999,999 the server is going to say "No.", kick you off for desyncing and then be completely justified in banning you. Rather than detecting changes or interactions, it just detects it running, which although effective is definitely more sensitive than required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithf Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 does this include any memory/debug related tools? e.g. those commonly used in software development. Until confirmation, I guess I will stay away from running Warframe on one monitor while coding on another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0sayan0o Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Same problem here, did not hack, cheat or insulted anyone.. While playing i have Steam, Winamp and Chrome (facebook flash game) running. I dont know if this is a bug or something else but something is wrong. Edited April 25, 2013 by o0sayan0o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0sayan0o Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to sensitive in my opinion. We cant run software to listen music or skype, and the game sees it as a cheat/hack software. i mean cmon this is ridiculous getting banned for not ''cheating/hacking''. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjarri Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 o0sayan0o, on 25 Apr 2013 - 03:14 AM, said: Its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to sensitive in my opinion. We cant run software to listen music or skype, and the game sees it as a cheat/hack software. i mean cmon this is ridiculous getting banned for not ''cheating/hacking''. Wait I don't know about music, but skype is running and I'm pretty sure I haven't been banned. Also, if they did interfere with music, I'm pretty sure I would have heard about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0sayan0o Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Wait I don't know about music, but skype is running and I'm pretty sure I haven't been banned. Also, if they did interfere with music, I'm pretty sure I would have heard about it. Well i dont know what software gets you hacked if you run it while playing Warframe.. Right now everything is sensitive if its not confirmed by the DE. So watch out when you play Warframe. Since last night i cant login cuz of suspension :s and this is going nowhere. More people will get banned like this in the next few days/weeks without cheating/hacking like me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZKAT8IT Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to sensitive in my opinion. We cant run software to listen music or skype, and the game sees it as a cheat/hack software. i mean cmon this is ridiculous getting banned for not ''cheating/hacking''. Based on from what I've read on this thread and my programming experience. From the sounds of it, IF you were banned for using Winamp and/or skype, it may be because Winamp had a plugin running that was checking open processes or something for one reason or another ( possible, may not be this instance ) As for skype, I know the new version when in a video chat likes to overlay the video on top of all other applications. Or tries to at least. In order to do this it has to use a Windows API call to set itself to always be on top. Maybe even send a hook to other applications to force itself on top depending how it was designed. Which then could be detected as a hack simply for trying to tamper with the window state of the game even though it has no malicious intent. Even though CheatEngine was not used to hack Warframe, it was a running process. But it can not go off of a running process alone. Otherwise simply renaming notepad to CheatEngine would get you banned, A MD5 checksum or some other hash check is used to verify the program is what it claims to be and typically compared to a blacklist. This is not uncommon in anti-cheat systems and is one of many ways to detect cheats besides checking for accessed memory in the game since that's not the only way to hack a game. You could even hack the OpenGL/DirectX layer directly to achieve wallhacks and such things. Teamspeak 3's overlay uses such a method and I've seen my overlay being displayed in reflections on some other games surfaces before. If I used that plugin on Warframe, the system might ban me as well. Who knows for certain though other than DE themselves since they built the anticheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithf Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 hmm would be good if when starting Warframe, it will give us a list of "sensitive apps" to close before playing... but then again, that may warn off potential cheaters and prompt them to search for something more obscure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0sayan0o Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Based on from what I've read on this thread and my programming experience. From the sounds of it, IF you were banned for using Winamp and/or skype, it may be because Winamp had a plugin running that was checking open processes or something for one reason or another ( possible, may not be this instance ) As for skype, I know the new version when in a video chat likes to overlay the video on top of all other applications. Or tries to at least. In order to do this it has to use a Windows API call to set itself to always be on top. Maybe even send a hook to other applications to force itself on top depending how it was designed. Which then could be detected as a hack simply for trying to tamper with the window state of the game even though it has no malicious intent. Even though CheatEngine was not used to hack Warframe, it was a running process. But it can not go off of a running process alone. Otherwise simply renaming notepad to CheatEngine would get you banned, A MD5 checksum or some other hash check is used to verify the program is what it claims to be and typically compared to a blacklist. This is not uncommon in anti-cheat systems and is one of many ways to detect cheats besides checking for accessed memory in the game since that's not the only way to hack a game. You could even hack the OpenGL/DirectX layer directly to achieve wallhacks and such things. Teamspeak 3's overlay uses such a method and I've seen my overlay being displayed in reflections on some other games surfaces before. If I used that plugin on Warframe, the system might ban me as well. Who knows for certain though other than DE themselves since they built the anticheat. I dont know anything about cheating or things what you have just said, but there is 1 thing i am sure about and that is that i have not cheated/hacked anthing at all. I will not be the first and the last one who will get suspended from warframe like this. I mean you run a software (doenst matter which one) and play warframe. 10 mins later you are banned for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SackScratch116 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) I ran a 'cheat program' And got busted. ROFL You already admit you ran a cheat for one game... Edited April 25, 2013 by SackScratch116 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0sayan0o Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 hmm would be good if when starting Warframe, it will give us a list of "sensitive apps" to close before playing... but then again, that may warn off potential cheaters and prompt them to search for something more obscure? True, that would be a very usefull for hackers if they know the sesitive apps, so its not a good idea. What they can do is make it less sensitive. and just add software to their list what you need to hack a game for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0sayan0o Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) And got busted. ROFL You already admit you ran a cheat for one game... He said for ''a game'' not ''warframe''. So lets say if i cheat on ehm Crysis will i get banned on Warframe? sounds stupid right? Edited April 25, 2013 by o0sayan0o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 hmm would be good if when starting Warframe, it will give us a list of "sensitive apps" to close before playing... but then again, that may warn off potential cheaters and prompt them to search for something more obscure? That would allow you to simply open Warframe and check to see if your desired method of cheating is visible. I'm sorry, but that is more useful to people looking to cheat then it is people who aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZKAT8IT Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I dont know anything about cheating or things what you have just said, but there is 1 thing i am sure about and that is that i have not cheated/hacked anthing at all. I will not be the first and the last one who will get suspended from warframe like this. I mean you run a software (doenst matter which one) and play warframe. 10 mins later you are banned for what? Understandable. I've written an anti-cheat myself for a F2P game before. The "sensative" method it appears theyre using was one of the many techniques I used also to catch a hack. It also banned people that weren't hacking. All goes with the testing phase. There's endless amounts of software, and no one knows exactly what they all do behind the scenes. This is where a whitelist comes in. As they get reports and see what people were being banned for, they can add these programs ( such as skype ) to a whitelist so the anticheat doesn't produce false positives again for said programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 He said for ''a game'' not ''warframe''. So lets say if i cheat on ehm Crysis will i get banned on Warframe? sounds stupid right? People who are known cheaters in one game are typically cheating in a very similar fashion in many games they play. I used to play APB with a guy who would openly talk about the aimbot he used. Great guy otherwise but definitely a cheater. He would also cheat in other games he played. It was just a thing he did. He liked the responses it generated. Part of his fun was getting away with it. That guy you replied to is implying exactly that. We have no reason to just take someones word for it "I swear I'd never cheat honest I only cheat in other games". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZKAT8IT Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 People who are known cheaters in one game are typically cheating in a very similar fashion in many games they play. This unfortunately is true :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0sayan0o Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Understandable. I've written an anti-cheat myself for a F2P game before. The "sensative" method it appears theyre using was one of the many techniques I used also to catch a hack. It also banned people that weren't hacking. All goes with the testing phase. There's endless amounts of software, and no one knows exactly what they all do behind the scenes. This is where a whitelist comes in. As they get reports and see what people were being banned for, they can add these programs ( such as skype ) to a whitelist so the anticheat doesn't produce false positives again for said programs. Yea we are in a testing phase now, and innocent people get banned for nothing. What if someone wants to play Warframe and his job is hacker / hack tester / and jobs like that where you need hack software for? He probably got hack software on his pc to test his/someone elses hacks. Even if he dont hack on Warframe he will get banned right now. That is not fair at all. People who ''really'' hack in a game should be banned. Not people who run software which they dont know if the system will see it as a cheat software or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 This unfortunately is true :( It is a funny thing. The people who are good at getting away with it just happen to have fun that way. The game isn't important, just getting it to work and seeing peoples reaction. Every single 'LOL WAT' or 'OMG SO STUPID' is a big win. The giggling on skype back in APB was enough to be me laughing too and I didn't do much aside from drive everyone around. He answered a guy who asked "When are you gonna grow up and stop this g*y sh*t." with "When you stop being so god d*mned funny about it." Pretty good answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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