Perma-Banned Already, It's A Bit Sensitive

[Blatantfool]

Yea we are in a testing phase now, and innocent people get banned for nothing. 

 

What if someone wants to play Warframe and his job is hacker / hack tester / and jobs like that where you need hack software for? He probably got hack software on his pc to test his/someone elses hacks. Even if he dont hack on Warframe he will get banned right now. That is not fair at all. People who ''really'' hack in a game should be banned. Not people who run software which they dont know if the system will see it as a cheat software or not.

 

 Clearly you don't fully understand the things you are talking about. Maybe you should slow down.

[o0sayan0o]

  People who are known cheaters in one game are typically cheating in a very similar fashion in many games they play.

 

 I used to play APB with a guy who would openly talk about the aimbot he used. Great guy otherwise but definitely a cheater. He would also cheat in other games he played. It was just a thing he did. He liked the responses it generated. Part of his fun was getting away with it.

 

 

 That guy you replied to is implying exactly that. We have no reason to just take someones word for it "I swear I'd never cheat honest I only cheat in other games".

 

So basically you are saying that if someone cheats once he will keep cheating? Thats not true in my eyes. There are games you may need help/cheat because you cant finish the mission after 17286892631 tries, and there are games like Warframe where you dont need to cheat since its not so hard to finish a mission (if you are strong).

[o0sayan0o]

 Clearly you don't fully understand the things you are talking about. Maybe you should slow down.

 

i do mate, i think you are the one who did not understand me but thats not a problem. You cant unban me anyway ^^

[Blatantfool]

So basically you are saying that if someone cheats once he will keep cheating? Thats not true in my eyes. There are games you may need help/cheat because you cant finish the mission after 17286892631 tries, and there are games like Warframe where you dont need to cheat since its not so hard to finish a mission (if you are strong).

 

 You are in over your head on this topic. Your viewpoint is specifically targeting this tiny little corner of the issue instead of the whole thing.

 

 I've seen it in action often enough. Cheating on online multiplayer games is not the same as a single player game. The types of people who do it are different.

 

 Cheating in Skyrim is NOT the same as Counter Strike or Warframe. Not only is cheating in Warframe going to be more difficult - the only real reason to do it is to bother other people. That tends to be a specific kind of person. 

 

 You are very sorely mistaken if you think anyone who cheats Warframe cares much about getting by in the game. From the cheaters perspective your account could be permanently gone within hours. You do it for other reasons.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Lifeshield]

You could, you know, not run cheat programs while playing Warframe.

 

It's a Beta so hiccups are bound to happen. However the chances of Skype, iTunes, etc getting you banned is very unlikely. If it does then file a ticket. If you are telling the truth and can provide reasonable evidence your ban will likely be reversed.

 

I'd rather have a full system ready to crush all cheaters in place, and not run anything else, than run a zillion programs in the background while people cheat. 

[Blatantfool]

i do mate, i think you are the one who did not understand me but thats not a problem. You cant unban me anyway ^^

 

 You don't. You completely missed the point of what the other poster was communicating.

 

 Besides - as far as the System is concerned you WERE using an illegitimate program. And - funnily enough - you were. The system proved that it is technically working properly.

 

 I'm fairly surprised you had a lapse in judgement big enough to decide you wanted to rev up Cheat Engine while you had an Online Game running. Of course you'd trigger the Anti-cheat. The only sane response is "Duh?"

Edited April 25, 2013 by Blatantfool

[ZKAT8IT]

Yea we are in a testing phase now, and innocent people get banned for nothing. 

 

What if someone wants to play Warframe and his job is hacker / hack tester / and jobs like that where you need hack software for? He probably got hack software on his pc to test his/someone elses hacks. Even if he dont hack on Warframe he will get banned right now. That is not fair at all. People who ''really'' hack in a game should be banned. Not people who run software which they dont know if the system will see it as a cheat software or not.

When I wrote the anti-cheat I previously mentioned. I grabbed every hack for the game to make sure the anti-cheat could catch it, with permission from the game developers. It's simple, if you don't want to be caught. Don't have the hack running in the first place while playing the game. If your job is to test hacks in the first place, then by all means do your job, but don't go testing hacks on something you don't have permission to do in the first place. If DE hires you to find vulnerabilities in their game, that's one thing. If you're doing it as a request from an outside source or on your own, then prepare to face the consequences. Most anti-cheats don't go in depth scanning your harddrive for every file checking for hacks. I think I've only ever seen 1 maybe 2 that actually did and they sucked because it caused the game to lag. So having them is one thing, using them is another.

 

So basically you are saying that if someone cheats once he will keep cheating? Thats not true in my eyes. There are games you may need help/cheat because you cant finish the mission after 17286892631 tries, and there are games like Warframe where you dont need to cheat since its not so hard to finish a mission (if you are strong).

Yes, because in that scenario, someone used a hack to beat a mission that was difficult. They may not need it for Warframe in your example, but there are plenty of difficult games out there. In which case the chances are high that the person would use another hack for those as well.

[JHarlequin]

 There are so many viewpoints and I have been able to use a few of them myself.  To put it roughly, the last cheats I used were game genie on "Mario Bros."  (Yes the one with bugs and pipes, not super mario bros.) and the other was Power Overwhelming on Starcraft.  I was also party to another cheat used in an online game, specifically when grouped with people for online Starcraft, one person was using a no fog of war cheat.

 

 I grew out of cheating.  I had used power overwhelming a couple times on campaign missions, but usually only if I was fiddling with some stuff.  But on a couple of expansion campaign levels, there was very little you could try before you would get destroyed and lose.  You almost couldn't finish the map without being perfect, or cheating.  Because those levels were very dissapointing like that I finally gave up on that game and realized that I just didn't want to cheat to finish a game anymore.

 

 Of course I also had the luck of doing that so long ago that there really wasn't much online experience I had available to me.  When it came to the online play for Starcraft and one person in our group using the no fog of war, there was a reason for it, but it still seemed kind of pointless.  The way it was used was that only one person would use it and he was specifically just watching for when they would almost prematurely send out an army and group up to wipe out someone on our team.  When they group up in about 1 minute and go for the person that doesn't have defenses yet because they are focusing on the army, then we knew they were using the same cheat.  Basically it was supposedly defensive cheating and at the time, it was more frequent to see players using the no fog of war cheats constantly online.  Blizzard hadn't exactly put up any sort of defense.

 

 Those last couple of times just made me give up on that game.  Before that, I had used cheating on a few games, but I was using it less and less on any game because it just wasn't the same as finishing the game.  I am good enough at games that I don't need to cheat to find the secrets and the fun little hidden tricks.

 

 But not everyone is good enough to find those little tricks.  It's a shame, but some people don't get everything out of some games.  What that really means is that those people should see it as a challenge and try again.  They shouldn't get a cheat to help them do it.  As for a few other explanations, one that I hope we never see is "I don't have time to find everything."  If you don't have the time to play a game, then don't play games.

 

 Overall, while the anti cheat system might be starting out harsh and I do worry about it triggering overactive bans on some players, I don't think that those cases will be frequent.  Since I am a bit of a cynic, I would probably look at the way each person's appeal looks exactly like something I have seen before and think, they aren't telling the truth when they say they didn't hack.

 

 Some of the statements already made are completely true.  Many people that get banned then go to the forums and pipe up with "Your anti-cheat couldn't catch any program because I wasn't cheating."  or "A friend was on my computer and used a cheat."  It starts to look the same over only about a month of forum use for games with anti-cheats.  These constant appeal requests sound false most of the time and because they are false some of the time, most forum users don't even bother reading them anymore.

 

 Be glad you are on these forums.  Some of these posters actually thought about your post before saying tough luck.  We are discussing it and treating you like another player we would want to talk to at least once.  You got a much better response here then you would get on just about any other game forum around.

 

 Still it comes down to the fact that you did use a program that could be used to cheat on a game.  The program got recongized and so you got banned.  It didn't matter that you weren't cheating on warframe, it mattered that you were cheating.  You can ask for an appeal, but you aren't likely to get much help.

 

 As for the bans of people that aren't using cheating software, something did trigger the ban, and common programs like skype and itunes aren't likely to be flagged programs.  There is a chance, but it is a very small chance that one feature was what caused your ban.  For those situations, send a report and if DE reviews it and sees info in the ban report that supports your claim, they will likely consider reversing your ban.

[Jabar]

Atlast a game where they realy ban cheaters for good!

If someone uses a cheat in any game then the chance is very high he uses it in all of them.

Ofc there is 1% chance the ban is wrong, the support will see that after a ticket.

 

I realy hope they stay like this, zero tolerance for cheaters!

[Caernarvon]

This is against our EULA.

 

Wait a second. The EULA states that you can probe people's computers for non-Warframe related programs and applications running in the background?

Oh wow. Some privacy intrusion that is. If I'd known about that I wouldn't have signed up. I don't enjoy people sniffing around in my computer. Unless you can deny this, I'm not keeping this game installed.

[MisterTuggles]

If you cheated in the flash game, I can be almost sure you would have ended up cheating in this one given the chance. So.... serves you right for cheating in general.

 

 

Goodbye, and see you in 2035!

[SeriousPawn]

Sucks bro 

[Fjarri]

Personally. I think the game, since it's it is in beta should give you a warning and drop you from a session if you are cheating or running a suspect program. A drop and temporary ban will get your attention and in this case, instead of a massive banhammer that detects any problem and squishes it, maybe something more precise?

 

What I am saying is, I would like the warning to stop Warframe as well as tell you what suspect action/program was the reason. If warnings stack up, you get banned. 

 

My main concern right now is my university campus forces me to have watch programs for my processes and there are others through the network that I have no control over. I would rather not get banned for something that I cannot even feasibly avoid before hand.

[ZKAT8IT]

Wait a second. The EULA states that you can probe people's computers for non-Warframe related programs and applications running in the background?

Oh wow. Some privacy intrusion that is. If I'd known about that I wouldn't have signed up. I don't enjoy people sniffing around in my computer. Unless you can deny this, I'm not keeping this game installed.

 

Haha, really? Do you even read the EULA before you click "Next" during installing something? All ( at least as far as I know, most if not all do ) anti-cheats check for running processes to see if it's a hack for their game. It's the simplest prevention method to be implemented into an anti-cheat. Also, if you're offended by that, maybe you should stop using the internet altogether. Because you know, websites have the ability to check what web browser you're using, what OS you're on, where you live, and a lot of other info. Total invasion of privacy! Better unplug your computer :P

 

 

 

 

Personally. I think the game, since it's it is in beta should give you a warning and drop you from a session if you are cheating or running a suspect program. A drop and temporary ban will get your attention and in this case, instead of a massive banhammer that detects any problem and squishes it, maybe something more precise?

 

What I am saying is, I would like the warning to stop Warframe as well as tell you what suspect action/program was the reason. If warnings stack up, you get banned. 

 

My main concern right now is my university campus forces me to have watch programs for my processes and there are others through the network that I have no control over. I would rather not get banned for something that I cannot even feasibly avoid before hand.

Nah, doing that would just give hints to the person trying to hack the game, allowing the person making the hacks to develop one that could be potentially uncaught by the system. That's like "try this method" "gets suspended for 2 hours" ok, not that way, let me try this method next...

Edited April 25, 2013 by ZKAT8IT

[Blatantfool]

Personally. I think the game, since it's it is in beta should give you a warning and drop you from a session if you are cheating or running a suspect program. A drop and temporary ban will get your attention and in this case, instead of a massive banhammer that detects any problem and squishes it, maybe something more precise?

 

What I am saying is, I would like the warning to stop Warframe as well as tell you what suspect action/program was the reason. If warnings stack up, you get banned. 

 

My main concern right now is my university campus forces me to have watch programs for my processes and there are others through the network that I have no control over. I would rather not get banned for something that I cannot even feasibly avoid before hand.

 

 

 If they do something like that people who ARE trying to set up a good cheat would use it to gauge whether or not the Anti-cheat can tell the game is being altered. You'd just build in a method for actual cheaters to test their stuff out faster.

[Mikki79]

if you do nothing wrong then you have nothing to be afraid of :)

Automatic anti cheat systems make mistakes, gotten banned from steam for a few hours before as well. "Permanent ban, no appeal", that's fun seeing on steam where most of your games are.

This anti cheat system is certain to make mistakes as well, hope the developers are reasonable people.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Mikki79

[Brawl]

Wait a second. The EULA states that you can probe people's computers for non-Warframe related programs and applications running in the background?

Oh wow. Some privacy intrusion that is. If I'd known about that I wouldn't have signed up. I don't enjoy people sniffing around in my computer. Unless you can deny this, I'm not keeping this game installed.

This. People don't seem to realize that there is a difference between running the tool in the background, hooking it into the Warframe client (allowing the tool to read and possibly tamper with the client) and actually using it to cheat and gain advantage.

 

1. OP states he never intended to use the tool on Warframe in the first place.

2. OP states he didn't even hook the tool into the Warframe client but only ran it in the background.

 

If you want to use the EULA argument where did lex certa go? I agree with Caernarvon's argument, running other applications (wether they can possibly be used for malicious ends or not) shouldn't be reason enough to permanently ban people.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Brawl

[Fjarri]

The issue with Insta ban is, that for the large part, it's like a shotgun, it takes down anything, but a good bit of collateral too.

 

Since this in beta, I would assume at least SOME leniency, because how are we supposed to know whats going to get us banned if they add a new feature that doesn't like a certain program running in the background?

[Blatantfool]

This. People don't seem to realize that there is a difference between running the tool in the background, hooking it into the Warframe client (allowing the tool to read and possibly tamper with the client) and actually using it to cheat and gain advantage.

 

1. OP states he never intended to use the tool on Warframe in the first place.

2. OP states he didn't even hook the tool into the Warframe client but only ran it in the background.

 

If you want to use the EULA argument where did lex certa go? I agree with Caernarvon's argument, running other applications (wether they can possibly be used for malicious ends or not) shouldn't be reason enough to permanently ban people.

 

 

 Yeah, because we all know that there is 0 possibility the OP is lying about why the Anti-cheat noticed Cheat Engine running.

 

 Totally. Because people never lie about that. Never.

[ZKAT8IT]

This. People don't seem to realize that there is a difference between running the tool in the background, hooking it into the Warframe client (allowing the tool to read and possibly tamper with the client) and actually using it to cheat and gain advantage.

 

1. OP states he never intended to use the tool on Warframe in the first place.

2. OP states he didn't even hook the tool into the Warframe client but only ran it in the background.

 

If you want to use the EULA argument where did lex certa go? I agree with Caernarvon's argument, running other applications (wether they can possibly be used for malicious ends or not) shouldn't be reason enough to permanently ban people.

The anticheat can not determine whether he was going to use it on Warframe or not. All it knows is he had the cheat/hack installed, it's possible to use to cheat/hack on Warframe. Therefor he was banned for it. For all the anticheat knows, he ran the cheat, and before he could tell it what game he wanted to use it on, he was caught with it.

[Blatantfool]

The issue with Insta ban is, that for the large part, it's like a shotgun, it takes down anything, but a good bit of collateral too.

 

Since this in beta, I would assume at least SOME leniency, because how are we supposed to know whats going to get us banned if they add a new feature that doesn't like a certain program running in the background?

 

 Considering this is maybe the third thread about collateral I've seen in 3 Months of play and no one here can honestly say the people banned aren't lying through their teeth about their innocence?

 

 Much less collateral then you are implying here.

[ZKAT8IT]

 Considering this is maybe the third thread about collateral I've seen in 3 Months of play and no one here can honestly say the people banned aren't lying through their teeth about their innocence?

 

 Much less collateral then you are implying here.

I wouldn't even count this thread as collateral to be honest.

[Caernarvon]

Because you know, websites have the ability to check what web browser you're using, what OS you're on, where you live, and a lot of other info.

 

 

The browser and OS things aren't strange, and neither is the site's ability to know where you're from, that's called an IP.

 

But they sure as hell don't check for offline software on your PC.

Also, anti-cheat programs aren't needed if you have proper server-side management of the game.

But Warframe handles pretty much everything client-side, which is completely $&*&*#(%& and is the reason for easy hacking on many other games.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Caernarvon

[Blatantfool]

I wouldn't even count this thread as collateral to be honest.

 

 I feel like you could flip a coin. You can't take anyone on just their word when the Anti-cheat nails them and they swear it is a misunderstanding.

[Tigerchen]

So I had warframe running in the background to see alerts while I was playing a flash game. I ran a 'cheat program' to try and skip grinding in the flash game, it didnt work so I closed it without doing anything. Now I'm banned from Warframe till 2035.

Then I came here and saw the warning in the hours old update. Take the warning literally, it's the equivalent of (in a hypothetical situation) having your steam account banned because it detected a bittorrent client on your computer.

 

Cool story bro.....

 

I'm sorry, but most of those I've seen that get perma-banned from video games are guilty of two things:

1. Doing something bad.

 

2. Lying about it on the forums.

 

This!