Gyrojet Rifle

[ValhaHazred]

We know it would be a niche weapon. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be neat, especially since the tiles keep getting bigger and more open.

[NydusTemplar]

We know it would be a niche weapon. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be neat, especially since the tiles keep getting bigger and more open.

It would go beyond niche.  Snipetron is a 'niche' weapon, but its still usable.  This would be flat out clunky, and though some maps are fairly open, the majority are not.  Additionally, its a rare enemy that engages from that distance.  Most close very quickly.  Adding another sniping weapon is fine, and if you'd like it to fire a rocket projectile instead of a slug or an arrow, fine, but the distance increases mechanic idea would either make it A) Useless since closer ranged fighting is a staple of the game or B) Overpowered because it would ramp up from a useful damage in close to a massive damage over range, especially given multiplers thru weapon damage mods and multifire.

[GTG3000]

It would go beyond niche.  Snipetron is a 'niche' weapon, but its still usable.  This would be flat out clunky, and though some maps are fairly open, the majority are not.  Additionally, its a rare enemy that engages from that distance.  Most close very quickly.  Adding another sniping weapon is fine, and if you'd like it to fire a rocket projectile instead of a slug or an arrow, fine, but the distance increases mechanic idea would either make it A) Useless since closer ranged fighting is a staple of the game or B) Overpowered because it would ramp up from a useful damage in close to a massive damage over range, especially given multiplers thru weapon damage mods and multifire.

 

No, it would fit the niche of "gun you use when you need something dead ooooover there" pretty well. Maybe it wouldn't have quite the damage of snipetron, but it would use rifle ammo, and with little to no recoil you'd just spam a few rockets about the same direction just to be sure, and you're good to go.

As for close-range encounters, well, that's what you have a sidearm and a melee weapon for. You're not going to argue that you can't really use gorgon as a sniper rifle, I hope, so I don't exactly see why should you argue about using a long-range niche rifle in close combat.

Of course, it would have some base damage on the short distance, and the limited versatility that comes with it, but you'd have to learn to switch weapons for ones, more fitting the situation.

[ValhaHazred]

Yep. We need more skill guns, not tons of "do everything" weapons. It's why I find the Paris so satisfying. When used properly you feel like a badass. When used improperly you die :)

[NydusTemplar]

No, it would fit the niche of "gun you use when you need something dead ooooover there" pretty well. Maybe it wouldn't have quite the damage of snipetron, but it would use rifle ammo, and with little to no recoil you'd just spam a few rockets about the same direction just to be sure, and you're good to go.

As for close-range encounters, well, that's what you have a sidearm and a melee weapon for. You're not going to argue that you can't really use gorgon as a sniper rifle, I hope, so I don't exactly see why should you argue about using a long-range niche rifle in close combat.

Of course, it would have some base damage on the short distance, and the limited versatility that comes with it, but you'd have to learn to switch weapons for ones, more fitting the situation.

 

 

Yep. We need more skill guns, not tons of "do everything" weapons. It's why I find the Paris so satisfying. When used properly you feel like a badass. When used improperly you die :)

 

You can use the Paris in mid-to-close combat.  Did it all the time while leveling it to 30, and I fire my Snipetron unscoped all the time as well.  Besides, Paris already fills that 'niche' to a degree, with the Snipetron picking up the slack.  We shouldn't be looking to add weapons to the game based solely upon 'nifty' factor.  They should serve a purpose which is in keeping with Warframe.

 

Even the Snipetron, which is reasonably unwieldy thanks to its ridiculously long reload time, can be used at mid to close range fairly well since it loses no damage by doing so.  Even then, it ignores armor by default now, much as the Paris does.  However, there's a fine line of difference between 'less efficient in close quarters' and 'nearly unusable in close quarters'.  As of current, this weapon falls under the latter category thanks to damage loss in close.

 

Besides, by its very nature, its going to either emulate the Paris, the Snipetron, or the Latron.  If the weapon uses an actual projectile, than it would just make it the Boltor, or a Paris with a clip.  Again, we're not actually adding anything beyond 'nifty'.  The Gyrojet as a weapon is really only viable if similar piercing weapons aren't available, and both the Paris and the Snipetron can do just that.  Even if you borrowed from the Gryojet's grimdark brother and made the rounds explosive armor piercing, you'd still run into the issue of it emulating the Paris with Thunderbolt mod.

 

This type of weapon works in a RPG or similar setup, but not in a third person shooter like this.  Besides, to make it worthwhile to use you'd end up marginalizing the other weapons suited for that role.  The Paris is already dangerously close to doing that to the Snipetron, and the Latron did until they hacked at its range.  The only saving grace for the Snipetron is that it doesn't need a charge up for full damage and has a four shot clip.  Adding in a Latron Sniper is basically the death knell of the weapon.

[GTG3000]

Well, I don't know, how long you imagine the range of effective/maximal damage to be. This gun would be really nice to have, and it would add a different mechanics of players trying to stay on the distance. And please don't talk like this game isn't going to ever need more than one gun of the same basic principle ever. 

 

If it fired a bullet - it would have a reverce damage falloff. If it fired a bolt - it could also look pretty sleek. It could be a powerful semiauto boltor, that finds it's use in support and ranged combat, and I don't think we shold take the playstyle of "Rush closer to hit it with the sword" into the picture here with this gun as it's main damage-dealer. You could go somewhere else to moan about not being able to quickly fire Paris with full power.

 

This weapon is intended to be of less use in close quarters, and it would work quite well unless you absolutely hate melee.  

Edited May 12, 2013 by GTG3000

[NydusTemplar]

Well, I don't know, how long you imagine the range of effective/maximal damage to be. This gun would be really nice to have, and it would add a different mechanics of players trying to stay on the distance. And please don't talk like this game isn't going to ever need more than one gun of the same basic principle ever. 

 

If it fired a bullet - it would have a reverce damage falloff. If it fired a bolt - it could also look pretty sleek. It could be a powerful semiauto boltor, that finds it's use in support and ranged combat, and I don't think we shold take the playstyle of "Rush closer to hit it with the sword" into the picture here with this gun as it's main damage-dealer. You could go somewhere else to moan about not being able to quickly fire Paris with full power.

 

This weapon is intended to be of less use in close quarters, and it would work quite well unless you absolutely hate melee.  

 

Well, I'd suppose we're talking this weapon's effective range picking up where shotguns begin dropping off.  That would seem fair since you're implying this will be directly opposite to a weapon designed for close range firepower.  However, as I stated before, there are maybe a handful of locations in the game that offer distances like this, and even fewer enemies who will even bother shooting at that point.

 

Also, while I recognize (and fully expect) there to be guns that perform similarly in the game as other weapons (DE built themselves into a corner in that regard by covering all the generic rifle types in their first go), that doesn't mean its just okay to release Latron 2.0 now with more range and worse in close quarters.

 

Also, if you read my post carefully, I wasn't complaining about Paris.  I was merely remarking that the Snipetron's saving grace at this point is purely the fact that you use it at full damage without charge up or reloading after each shot.  The Paris, when snap fired in mid to close range is actually a very good weapon when aimed for vulnerable locations to deal with a rush of enemies.  Giving it even a brief charge lets it punch down lines of rushing Infested.  Just because I'm not agreeing with you doesn't mean I'm automatically whining.

 

I'm fully aware of the concept you are trying to put forth here, what I'm not seeing is the point when it comes to Warframe.  There's barely enough call for Snipetron as it stands, making a weapon even more inflexible doesn't seem like a good design.  Besides, this weapon is still basically going to end up being the Latron with a minimum range instead of a maximum range and they specifically chopped away at the Latron's maximum range because it was making the Snipetron pointless.  That's something to consider.

[GTG3000]

Well, I'd suppose we're talking this weapon's effective range picking up where shotguns begin dropping off.  That would seem fair since you're implying this will be directly opposite to a weapon designed for close range firepower.  However, as I stated before, there are maybe a handful of locations in the game that offer distances like this, and even fewer enemies who will even bother shooting at that point.

 

Also, while I recognize (and fully expect) there to be guns that perform similarly in the game as other weapons (DE built themselves into a corner in that regard by covering all the generic rifle types in their first go), that doesn't mean its just okay to release Latron 2.0 now with more range and worse in close quarters.

 

Also, if you read my post carefully, I wasn't complaining about Paris.  I was merely remarking that the Snipetron's saving grace at this point is purely the fact that you use it at full damage without charge up or reloading after each shot.  The Paris, when snap fired in mid to close range is actually a very good weapon when aimed for vulnerable locations to deal with a rush of enemies.  Giving it even a brief charge lets it punch down lines of rushing Infested.  Just because I'm not agreeing with you doesn't mean I'm automatically whining.

 

I'm fully aware of the concept you are trying to put forth here, what I'm not seeing is the point when it comes to Warframe.  There's barely enough call for Snipetron as it stands, making a weapon even more inflexible doesn't seem like a good design.  Besides, this weapon is still basically going to end up being the Latron with a minimum range instead of a maximum range and they specifically chopped away at the Latron's maximum range because it was making the Snipetron pointless.  That's something to consider.

 

That was supposed to be "you might as well go moan about paris", but that part got lost somehow, sorry. I didn't imply that you are whining... Guess I was sleepy, I apologize if that offended you.

 

And, as the harsh falloff have shown us, there are more medium to long range spaces in warframe than we are led to believe (I was surprised when I realized, how long the middle range actually is in this game). This guns' inflexibility basically lies within it's minimal damage cap. if it had, say, a steady curve from 1, it would be underpowered. If it had a scalling up from 10 - you could still use it about as effectively as Lex in close range (as in - unless you're standing still or have really god aim, you waste the mag on body shots while running away), since it would have bigger mag, faster reload/fire rate, and, more importantly, more rockets hitting the weakspots.

 

Inflexibility is just another word for "high risk - high reward". The concept can be played with to fit different tastes. For example, a bolt-firing Latron, that requires leading the target to compensate for the slow muzzle velocity of the projectile, but with a high starting chance of a massive explosive (not aoe, just pretties) crit, going down as the rocket 'burns fuel', that would allow you to make a build, that isn't exactly the most damaging, but instead has versatility... Technically, DE should have some quick way of geting travel distance of projectile, and that allows for all kinds of fun, especially when combined with bolts. Also, the gun is basically recoilless, that would make for another nice feature to have in a gun.

 

Personally I am surprised how they still aren't creating weapons by assigning a number of properties to them, like, dunno "Automatic, Rifle, Bolt-firing" for Boltor. WOuld also make the store easier to navigate and put in some usability for when there's many guns (I hope there will be). There are going to be Latrons 2.0 in the future, and this gun would at least be unique in mechanic, provide high reward for all it's close-range risks (and, probably, aim, that requires getting used to), and be generally there for fun of using, that with all the basic guns already in place.

 

I guess it could be capped at something ilke 50-70 damage not to rival snipetron too much, since it would fire fully semiauto with little recoil. Perhaps 50 would be the best. For balancing purposes, maybe having it fire sniper ammo would work.

[ValhaHazred]

+1 GTG3000. Sounds perfect!

[EclecticDragon]

I've never heard of gyrojet weapon being used inside of a game (barring 40k games). so yeah, I love this idea.

[NydusTemplar]

That was supposed to be "you might as well go moan about paris", but that part got lost somehow, sorry. I didn't imply that you are whining... Guess I was sleepy, I apologize if that offended you.

 

And, as the harsh falloff have shown us, there are more medium to long range spaces in warframe than we are led to believe (I was surprised when I realized, how long the middle range actually is in this game). This guns' inflexibility basically lies within it's minimal damage cap. if it had, say, a steady curve from 1, it would be underpowered. If it had a scalling up from 10 - you could still use it about as effectively as Lex in close range (as in - unless you're standing still or have really god aim, you waste the mag on body shots while running away), since it would have bigger mag, faster reload/fire rate, and, more importantly, more rockets hitting the weakspots.

 

Inflexibility is just another word for "high risk - high reward". The concept can be played with to fit different tastes. For example, a bolt-firing Latron, that requires leading the target to compensate for the slow muzzle velocity of the projectile, but with a high starting chance of a massive explosive (not aoe, just pretties) crit, going down as the rocket 'burns fuel', that would allow you to make a build, that isn't exactly the most damaging, but instead has versatility... Technically, DE should have some quick way of geting travel distance of projectile, and that allows for all kinds of fun, especially when combined with bolts. Also, the gun is basically recoilless, that would make for another nice feature to have in a gun.

 

Personally I am surprised how they still aren't creating weapons by assigning a number of properties to them, like, dunno "Automatic, Rifle, Bolt-firing" for Boltor. WOuld also make the store easier to navigate and put in some usability for when there's many guns (I hope there will be). There are going to be Latrons 2.0 in the future, and this gun would at least be unique in mechanic, provide high reward for all it's close-range risks (and, probably, aim, that requires getting used to), and be generally there for fun of using, that with all the basic guns already in place.

 

I guess it could be capped at something ilke 50-70 damage not to rival snipetron too much, since it would fire fully semiauto with little recoil. Perhaps 50 would be the best. For balancing purposes, maybe having it fire sniper ammo would work.

 

No worries on the complaining, I've had those days were muddled words fumble out.

 

Honestly, to me, most of the standard hallways on the Corpus Ship Tile are 'mid range', close range being within Furis accuracy distance, followed by Close Quarters being close enough that your gun stops registering hits on the enemy reliably.  Long range, prime sniping distances, for me, are ranges where the Latron no longer functions, such as the standard Grineer boss arena's entry point to where the boss is standing or further.  Also, the select tiles on the Corpus Ice World tileset.

 

I suppose the projectile would have to be much faster moving, like the Paris, since the Bolt weapons tend to have a fairly slow travel speed.  Makes them rather worthless at range (unless the enemy is stationary).  Sniping with the Paris is quite possible, so that speed seems fine.  However, I'm still not feeling this weapon since its just 'Snapshot Paris with Clip'.  That's just my personal view on it.  The reverse damage drop off mechanic will end up getting a lot of hate since the game is fast paced.  Additionally, if they were to implement a weapon like this, the Snipetron would need another buff, or a slight rework.  Something like 50% reduced clip size but 50% increased reload speed.

[ValhaHazred]

If they did make it, it would be best to release it with a pack of other weapons with different properties. Keeping it from being the sole focus of a re-enforcement and making sure the description was clear would hugely limit any hate on for it.

[GoneM4d]

Sup

[GTG3000]

No worries on the complaining, I've had those days were muddled words fumble out.

 

Honestly, to me, most of the standard hallways on the Corpus Ship Tile are 'mid range', close range being within Furis accuracy distance, followed by Close Quarters being close enough that your gun stops registering hits on the enemy reliably.  Long range, prime sniping distances, for me, are ranges where the Latron no longer functions, such as the standard Grineer boss arena's entry point to where the boss is standing or further.  Also, the select tiles on the Corpus Ice World tileset.

 

I suppose the projectile would have to be much faster moving, like the Paris, since the Bolt weapons tend to have a fairly slow travel speed.  Makes them rather worthless at range (unless the enemy is stationary).  Sniping with the Paris is quite possible, so that speed seems fine.  However, I'm still not feeling this weapon since its just 'Snapshot Paris with Clip'.  That's just my personal view on it.  The reverse damage drop off mechanic will end up getting a lot of hate since the game is fast paced.  Additionally, if they were to implement a weapon like this, the Snipetron would need another buff, or a slight rework.  Something like 50% reduced clip size but 50% increased reload speed.

 

Well, and I always end up shooting across the corridor with gorgon being too inaccurate and hek having it's damage dropped off already, eh. Must be my luck. 

 

I see your point. Though it will probably get less hate if they choose proper min/max damage values. And Snipetron always needs a buff, eh,

 

 

 

If they did make it, it would be best to release it with a pack of other weapons with different properties. Keeping it from being the sole focus of a re-enforcement and making sure the description was clear would hugely limit any hate on for it.

 

They should have no problem with that. They already set the plank quite low with grakata and ankyros. Although what other weird weapons would go with it? Shield gauntlets?

[GTG3000]

Bump?