Hek, From Amazing To Terrible.

[Enlil]

Stop talking about real life shotguns. Just cut it out.

 

In the context of Warframe, the shotgun optimal range is not where it used to be, however, it is not as short as many people seem to imagine. An overwhelming majority of engagements happen well within the new optimal shotgun range; I've had no problems with my Hek post-nerf, save for the fact that I can't one-shot level 50+ Ancients from 100 meters away now.

so we should make the bust with an high power pistol at that range, now that makes sence! you sir are the only one that NOT seems to bother.. i rly start to think that you are playing with an tank and a low budget GPU, who would like see thost shotguns for tank use only.. while remaining the range of the pistols for the <10m bust.

[Enlil]

and still no reply frome the dev home front on thi topic, such an shame..

[-0mega-]

BUMP THE S#&amp;&#036; OUT OF THIS TOPIC

[MoonicusMaximus]

Wanna know something funny? I can easily land headshots against Grineer taking cover by crouching against those small panels on a fence in those large boss arena rooms with my LEX. Oh, and this is them on the upper-most section of the room and I'm still next to the crate by the entrance, or reverse it and I'm on the uppermost part hitting a Grineer Lancer's head when he's in that fenced walkway with crates.

 

So sniping with the LEX is just fine and dandy, but hitting a Grineer at distance of 50 meters (which is not much at all in this game if waypoints are anything to go by) is somehow wrong when the HEK has a super full Choke to allow compression of the pellets specifically for long range use. Oh, can we nerf Councilor Vay Hek please? I don't think he got hit with the nerf bat at all.

 

The Lex has its uses, being a sidearm sniper rifle being one of its few saving graces.

 

The Hek did more damage than your Lex, at comparable ranges save for enormous distances such as across boss rooms, and delivered the damage much, much faster than your Lex, due to it essentially being a shotgun that delivers instant-gibbing shotgun damage at ranges comparable to rifles. This made the weapon broken, because there were next to no downsides whatsoever to using a Hek.

 

The playerbase as well as DE saw this, and DE has made measures to bring shotguns down to a level of balance to where their ability to cause instantaneous upfront burst damage, highest in the game, is balanced by their range, which is short to medium.

 

Now, if you want to do comparable damage at medium to long distances in terms of Warframe, you either bring a weapon with greater optimal range but less killing power/Time-To-Kill (the rifle classes, mostly), OR you can just close the distance and utilize your instagib shotgun at its optimal range, utilizing the Tenno's already impressive mobility.

 

I don't see a problem with this, and had figured that DE would eventually bring shotguns to this level after experiencing the sheer broken potential that the Hek was capable of.

 

 

I have no idea what games you've been playing but with the hek the grineer and corpus missions definitely are NOT "well within the new optimal shotgun range". It's even worse when the new tile set is being used. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that one out of three factions isn't the majority of the engagements of the damn game.

As for asking people to stop [comparing real life shotguns to ingame shotguns] ("talking"), that's pretty petty and immature. If DE didn't want them to be compared to shotguns, they should not have named them shotguns. Scatterguns would've been more appropriate.

 

The very notion that shotguns in Warframe shouldn't be as they are in nearly every other video game iteration is what is growing tired for me. Shotguns have, in games, almost always been balanced for the great power by having minimal distances in comparison to other weapons with less upfront damage.

 

Is this accurate in real life? No, it is not. I know shotguns have ranges that trump what video games depict, but this system is in place as a measure of balance, not to cater to realism.

 

As for why they wouldn't call them shotguns, the word 'shotgun' is much, much more identifiable to the everyday man than 'scattergun'. I agree that shotguns in games, Warframe included, act more like scatterguns or blunderbusses, but the current trends call them shotguns for players to better associate the equipment to its use. All in all, it doesn't matter whether they are called shotguns or scatterguns, because they will end up being used the exact same way.

 

 

so we should make the bust with an high power pistol at that range, now that makes sence! you sir are the only one that NOT seems to bother.. i rly start to think that you are playing with an tank and a low budget GPU, who would like see thost shotguns for tank use only.. while remaining the range of the pistols for the <10m bust.

 

Is that high-powered pistol a Lex, by chance? Because the Lex carries several shortcomings that balance its use at extreme ranges. The rate of fire is low, the magazine is low, the reload time is decent-to-low, while its accuracy is high and its damage, while not comparable to the upfront damage of a shotgun, are good for its role.

 

So, yes, the Lex, a handgun, acting like a slightly weaker sniper rifle with high accuracy and killing power, but with obvious shortcomings, doesn't bother me, because it is balanced.

 

The Hek, a shotgun, with high accuracy and extreme instantaneous killing power leading to overly-efficient ammunition economy, with weaknesses that DO NOT balance its power, strikes me as broken and unbalanced. Am I wrong in this conclusion?

[Amistyrja]

I dunno, it's clip size? Increase its reload time or something and maybe make damage falloff like 30m. Nerf the Strun's and Boar's range if you will, but at least let the Hek serve it's purpose as a medium-range shotgun. Not everyone wants the Hek just because it was an apparently broken and overpowered gun. Maybe we just like the idea of a choked, long-barreled shotgun that can take out targets from a little further away.

[HarukaTsukiko]

The Lex has its uses, being a sidearm sniper rifle being one of its few saving graces.

 

The Hek did more damage than your Lex, at comparable ranges save for enormous distances such as across boss rooms, and delivered the damage much, much faster than your Lex, due to it essentially being a shotgun that delivers instant-gibbing shotgun damage at ranges comparable to rifles. This made the weapon broken, because there were next to no downsides whatsoever to using a Hek.

 

The playerbase as well as DE saw this, and DE has made measures to bring shotguns down to a level of balance to where their ability to cause instantaneous upfront burst damage, highest in the game, is balanced by their range, which is short to medium.

 

Now, if you want to do comparable damage at medium to long distances in terms of Warframe, you either bring a weapon with greater optimal range but less killing power/Time-To-Kill (the rifle classes, mostly), OR you can just close the distance and utilize your instagib shotgun at its optimal range, utilizing the Tenno's already impressive mobility.

 

I don't see a problem with this, and had figured that DE would eventually bring shotguns to this level after experiencing the sheer broken potential that the Hek was capable of.

 

 

 

The very notion that shotguns in Warframe shouldn't be as they are in nearly every other video game iteration is what is growing tired for me. Shotguns have, in games, almost always been balanced for the great power by having minimal distances in comparison to other weapons with less upfront damage.

 

Is this accurate in real life? No, it is not. I know shotguns have ranges that trump what video games depict, but this system is in place as a measure of balance, not to cater to realism.

 

As for why they wouldn't call them shotguns, the word 'shotgun' is much, much more identifiable to the everyday man than 'scattergun'. I agree that shotguns in games, Warframe included, act more like scatterguns or blunderbusses, but the current trends call them shotguns for players to better associate the equipment to its use. All in all, it doesn't matter whether they are called shotguns or scatterguns, because they will end up being used the exact same way.

 

 

 

Is that high-powered pistol a Lex, by chance? Because the Lex carries several shortcomings that balance its use at extreme ranges. The rate of fire is low, the magazine is low, the reload time is decent-to-low, while its accuracy is high and its damage, while not comparable to the upfront damage of a shotgun, are good for its role.

 

So, yes, the Lex, a handgun, acting like a slightly weaker sniper rifle with high accuracy and killing power, but with obvious shortcomings, doesn't bother me, because it is balanced.

 

The Hek, a shotgun, with high accuracy and extreme instantaneous killing power leading to overly-efficient ammunition economy, with weaknesses that DO NOT balance its power, strikes me as broken and unbalanced. Am I wrong in this conclusion?

 

Personally I would like to direct you to a small point of reality here, even if you don't really want it.

 

The Benelli M4 combat shotgun, is a weapon made in 1998 and has seen production ever since and use within both police and military. It can more then one type of gadge shell, but even more so, it has an effetive range of roughly 50 meters, which is roughly 55yards Now what does this mean for the slice of real life comparsion here. This shotgun has a range over 150feet, with buckshot...This is not a super full choke shotgun like the hek, which should have a range over 70meters at the vary least, but in reality would have a range over 100meters with ease. This is all infomation you can find yourself online within 10 minutes.

 

Shotgun's should not be crippled for balencing, they should be specilaized.

 

Also I would like to direct viewers and posters here to a topic a friend helpped me get started regarding the recent nerfs.

It contains points that can be used to move the current;y nerfed weapons into niches rather then making them broken shadows of the past

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/37178-recent-nerfs/

Edited April 29, 2013 by HarukaTsukiko

[MoonicusMaximus]

Personally I would like to direct you to a small point of reality here, even if you don't really want it.

 

The Benelli M4 combat shotgun, is a weapon made in 1998 and has seen production ever since and use within both police and military. It can more then one type of gadge shell, but even more so, it has an effetive range of roughly 50 meters, which is roughly 55yards Now what does this mean for the slice of real life comparsion here. This shotgun has a range over 150feet, with buckshot...This is not a super full choke shotgun like the hek, which should have a range over 70meters at the vary least, but in reality would have a range over 100meters with ease. This is all infomation you can find yourself online within 10 minutes.

 

I am fully aware of what shotguns are capable of outside of the confines of video games. However...

 

Shotgun's should not be crippled for balencing, they should be specilaized.

 

Specialized to what? Increasing the range of shotguns while keeping their same damage would only serve to completely and utterly negate the need for rifles or any weapon beyond a Hek. This game does not facilitate extreme ranges that real-life rifles would mete out an advantage over real-life shotguns. Because of this, balance is REQUIRED to make all manners of weapons desirable for different situations.

 

How could you justify the Hek with it being specialized?

 

If you reduce the damage, it would just be too similar to a rifle.

 

If you reduce the range, it would be more in line with what the shotgun video-game gameplay mechanic is currently accustomed to.

 

Reduction of other aspects would not affect the Heks abilities and advantages that made it so broken and overpowered in the first place.

 

Right now, this range reduction and damage falloff is, in my opinion, one of the better ways to go about balancing the weapon. People won't like it, but it will benefit the game as a whole rather than a subset of people who wish to use the Hek in any situation without consequence.

[HarukaTsukiko]

I am fully aware of what shotguns are capable of outside of the confines of video games. However...

 

 

Specialized to what? Increasing the range of shotguns while keeping their same damage would only serve to completely and utterly negate the need for rifles or any weapon beyond a Hek. This game does not facilitate extreme ranges that real-life rifles would mete out an advantage over real-life shotguns. Because of this, balance is REQUIRED to make all manners of weapons desirable for different situations.

 

How could you justify the Hek with it being specialized?

 

If you reduce the damage, it would just be too similar to a rifle.

 

If you reduce the range, it would be more in line with what the shotgun video-game gameplay mechanic is currently accustomed to.

 

Reduction of other aspects would not affect the Heks abilities and advantages that made it so broken and overpowered in the first place.

 

Right now, this range reduction and damage falloff is, in my opinion, one of the better ways to go about balancing the weapon. People won't like it, but it will benefit the game as a whole rather than a subset of people who wish to use the Hek in any situation without consequence.

 

I never said the Hek shouldn't have its range nurfed, but is should be the longest range shotgun of the three. Both in terms of gameplay and reality the Strun currently outplays the Hek by a massive margin, due ot the Strun's spread shot at the closer range. There are many ways to nerf the shotguns. But the steps currently taken by DE to balence them are highly destrustive, rather then being proactive.

 

A shotgun should be a shotgun I agree with this statement whole heartedly. I never said the Hek should retain rifle range with full damage, but it should have a higher damage range atleast double or triple that of most of them, which the Strun should sit between the range of the Hek and Boar. The boar itself should be the closet range shotgun in the game due to its extremely wide spread and rapid fire nature.

[MoonicusMaximus]

I never said the Hek shouldn't have its range nurfed, but is should be the longest range shotgun of the three. Both in terms of gameplay and reality the Strun currently outplays the Hek by a massive margin, due ot the Strun's spread shot at the closer range. There are many ways to nerf the shotguns. But the steps currently taken by DE to balence them are highly destrustive, rather then being proactive.

 

A shotgun should be a shotgun I agree with this statement whole heartedly. I never said the Hek should retain rifle range with full damage, but it should have a higher damage range atleast double or triple that of most of them, which the Strun should sit between the range of the Hek and Boar. The boar itself should be the closet range shotgun in the game due to its extremely wide spread and rapid fire nature.

 

Then I agree with you to some extent. I would not mind the Hek being effective at a longer range than the Strun... but I believe that is already afforded to the weapon through the Struns much larger pellet spread compared to the Hek's tighter spread.

 

I land more pellets on Grineer mugs at 10 meters with a Hek than I do with a Strun.

 

While at the same time I land more pellets on Grineer overall at 3 meters with a Strun than I do with a Hek.

 

If you want the Hek to have longer range than that before its damage falloff starts to occur, I cannot agree with anything more than 15 meters effective full-damage range before falloff. Beyond that is a long enough distance to have rifles take presence over shotguns, in terms of Warframe distance.

Edited April 29, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[Rafarix]

What bothers me the most was the nerf was to prevent Shotgun sniping from that little note from the patch notes. So the nerf was mainly meant for the Hek. But I never knew that people sniped with the Boar and Strun. How do you even snipe with those two, and why would you snipe with the Boar and Strun? Hek did need re-balancing, but the Boar and Strun was already perfectly fine the way they were IMO.

[GTG3000]

What bothers me the most was the nerf was to prevent Shotgun sniping from that little note from the patch notes. So the nerf was mainly meant for the Hek. But I never knew that people sniped with the Boar and Strun. How do you even snipe with those two, and why would you snipe with the Boar and Strun? Hek did need re-balancing, but the Boar and Strun was already perfectly fine the way they were IMO.

 

Same as with hek - aim at enemy 50 meters away and hope that enough pellets hit them. It works with crewmen, heh. Not to much with anyone else, but they at the ones with insanely huge (and deliciously awesome) Dam defence map.

[Soulfighter]

well i played a bit with the hek and i can say lot of you are kind of over exagerating, it still maintain its basic purpose, aka being able to put all the pellets in the weak spots at a reasonable range. Yes they over nerfed shotgun but the hek still remain better than most gun at mid range & close range

[Antiks]

Edit : the thing I quoted changed or something.... Anyways something about snipers being given their throne back.

 

The way the game is played Snipers aren't really ever required.  You could remove the snipetron all together. The further up you go the faster people play this game, snipetron is fun for screwing around but it really doesn't lend itself to anything other than that and never really will.  If there were slower no zerg levels then then snipers may have a place but as it is a snipetron vs the zergs we currently face is kind of dead weight unless that sniper has a good sidearm, but then you end up playing more of a gunslinger. Even that gunslinger is being less effective than he could be.

 

Now if they buffed up the Latron I think that's a better direction.The M1 Garand of warframe or something... It feels lacking atm for some reason, even though it is good when maxed. Riflemen sure, snipers not really. Even the paris which is a good weapon doesn't always pull it's weight when going loud compared to some other weapons. 

 

The damage fall off is too punishing at the moment on ALL shotguns. Surely there is a middle ground. 

Edited April 30, 2013 by Antiks

[Diogenes161]

What's the Effective range on a Glaive? A thrown melee weapon? How many times does it bounce? Anyone compare a slide spin attack range with shotguns? The range of an attack with a gun is shorter then the range of a thrown melee weapon and almost the same as a full body spin attack with a two handed axe/hammer? With this kind of "balance" we should get rid of Shotguns and Rifles. Lex can snipe, Bronco can be a shotty, we have Vipers and afuris for smgs. We could keep the bow and then all ranges would be "balanced". We are "space ninjas" after all pistols, SMGs, and a few sniping weapons on top of ninja melee weapons make more sense then Weak rifles and melee range shotguns.

[-0mega-]

Bump this S#&amp;&#036; up

[Mrblurr]

You sir have clearly never fired a shotgun in real life.

 

No, you sir have clearly never fired a shotgun. Shotguns are most effective with the PELLETS spread up to about 30 yards. Outside of that they start to trail off A LOT. I've been hit with bit shot at about 70 yards and it felt like a handful of dirt and it hit all around me too...it was useless. What you posted was a SLUG. A single large pellet if you want to view it that way. 1 pellet = 0 spread. That's why it shoots that far. If he was firing buck shot in that video, then NONE of those pellets would have hit and if they by some miracle would have...ell they just would have bounced off or maybe let some hail-like dents.

 

I do agree that the range nerf is TOO MUCH though. I think the damage should start trailing off till a unit is 30 yards away, but it should trail off fast when it does.

 

As a Duck/Deer/Turkey hunter I know a little bit about shotguns. In this instance you'd ideally want to use a size of shot that is large, but you also want the shell to contain a lot of it. I think I read that the shells contain 7 pellets (right?) so that would be just slightly smaller than buckshot. bugger the pellet, the more damage you will do up close, and the better range you will most likely have.

 

I'm sure this changes a bit when you get into military weaponry though.

[jokerism]

I think people are mostly still shocked by the change- some seem to advocate a rollback on the fix- and to return the Hek to what it was, others opposite- saying it was a needed nerf- It is still in Beta- so its not the be-all-end-all--- feedback is good: Player A thinking that the Hek change was too much and drastic is good- as another guy said about 7 pages back before it became Reality vs. Game argument-- dev's will probably digest this and wade through to get the good feedback. I for one particularly liked the artist impression.

 

I think a way to approach this is, previously, the Hek enjoyed TOP-end damage @all ranges (short, med, long) -- I'm guessing DE saw this as a issue because as another guy noted he 'Didn't need to use anything else' because the Hek fit the bill... i could even extrapolate further and say the nerf- balanced the Hek with other weapons so much as it- returns to the age old comparison of Primary weapons: Rifles mid/long, snipers-long, shotguns- short/mid (even)-- that comparison itself is wrong because players can use any gun they want at any range- as long as it fits their purposes- shotguns though obviously designed for more in-your-face-conflict (you can't argue with the logic that you see in the game)--- even further- this rebalancing of the Hek could open up to other, newer weapons (be they plat bought or obtained through long hours) that are hybrids of the current weapons available. Give it time, give good feedback a new OP weapon will come. I imagine- the range of fall off will be modified to be more in line with the gameplay vs. 55+ mobs... it just means it won't be a walk in the park anymore.

 

for the tl:dr

-Shotguns provide big top end burst @close range- seems like this is what the dev's want

-For a shotgun to have similar range to a rifle that does base (20 dam (B.V)) and waaaay more stopping power to boot exist in the game, probably was unintended- and was evident by the frequency of using the Hek for such purposes.

-Something new and interesting could be over the horizon

-The picture was awesome- i imagine the middle picture would work nicely for shotguns --- given gameplay vs. higher level mobs would be too punishing, if indeed the spread and range of the Hek is indeed what everyone is saying.

[dEEkAy2k9]

the way this nerf was implemented was wrong.

 

instead of making shotguns do NO damage at more then 10m, the should have increased the spread depending on the range. this would nerf heks sniping abilites while maintaining the shotguns roles.

 

the current nerf affected all shotguns. so not only does the strun or the boar less damage, it does less damage over distance AND has a very big spread.

[neKroMancer]

the way this nerf was implemented was wrong.

 

instead of making shotguns do NO damage at more then 10m, the should have increased the spread depending on the range. this would nerf heks sniping abilites while maintaining the shotguns roles.

 

the current nerf affected all shotguns. so not only does the strun or the boar less damage, it does less damage over distance AND has a very big spread.

Nope, that will just make it a direct upgrade of Strun. The purpose of Hel is to deliver tight group of pellets to range longer than other shotguns, a role it had been doing fine so far. However, it had no con compared to another weapon of comparable range (Snipertron).

Why had players been using Hek as top-end weapon while it should be a long range shotgun?

1. Extremely high damage per shot. One of its 7 pellets is enough to kill Corpus crewman with headshot.

2. Tight pellet spread. The fact that it's pellet mean there is more room for error and lag in online session than Snipertron which shoot a single bullet.

3. Medium reload time.

4. Ammo-efficient. You should not run out of ammo while running around with Hek. The number of ammo per pickup, 20, is more than enough to fill your spare ammo to full.

5. Sponginess of enemy at higher level is just drive the need for Hek even further since player is going to run out of ammo using other weapons in high level.

Now, is the falloff mechanic realistic?

- No. It's purpose is to create diversity, not reality.

Should shotgun be affected by the mechanic?

- Yes.

Should each shotgun has it's own falloff range?

- Yes. Spread of falloff range should be tied to each other. Boar can deliver full damage at close range then add the falloff damage beyond that range.

Strun as close-medium shotgun and Hek as medium-long range shotgun should be adjusted accordingly.

How should we further adjust the Hek?

- Give it cons to balance the pros. Less spare ammo. More refire time (the duration between shot fired). Less pellet (require aiming before shooting). Higher reload time comparable to Snipertron.

Each weapon should has it's own niche, not a direct upgrade of existing weapon. Hek should performs well at long range but suck at close range. Boar should performs well at close range but suck at long range. Strun should be a middle ground between these two.

Don't take realism into gaming.

[NalkorRN]

Nope, that will just make it a direct upgrade of Strun. The purpose of Hel is to deliver tight group of pellets to range longer than other shotguns, a role it had been doing fine so far. However, it had no con compared to another weapon of comparable range (Snipertron).

Why had players been using Hek as top-end weapon while it should be a long range shotgun?

1. Extremely high damage per shot. One of its 7 pellets is enough to kill Corpus crewman with headshot.

2. Tight pellet spread. The fact that it's pellet mean there is more room for error and lag in online session than Snipertron which shoot a single bullet.

3. Medium reload time.

4. Ammo-efficient. You should not run out of ammo while running around with Hek. The number of ammo per pickup, 20, is more than enough to fill your spare ammo to full.

5. Sponginess of enemy at higher level is just drive the need for Hek even further since player is going to run out of ammo using other weapons in high level.

Now, is the falloff mechanic realistic?

- No. It's purpose is to create diversity, not reality.

Should shotgun be affected by the mechanic?

- Yes.

Should each shotgun has it's own falloff range?

- Yes. Spread of falloff range should be tied to each other. Boar can deliver full damage at close range then add the falloff damage beyond that range.

Strun as close-medium shotgun and Hek as medium-long range shotgun should be adjusted accordingly.

How should we further adjust the Hek?

- Give it cons to balance the pros. Less spare ammo. More refire time (the duration between shot fired). Less pellet (require aiming before shooting). Higher reload time comparable to Snipertron.

Each weapon should has it's own niche, not a direct upgrade of existing weapon. Hek should performs well at long range but suck at close range. Boar should performs well at close range but suck at long range. Strun should be a middle ground between these two.

Don't take realism into gaming.

Wow, why would I ever take the HEK over the Strun if it had an even longer reload time, a longer refire tate, and less damage via lower ammo pool and fewer pellets? The Strun wins hands down even with it's longer reloading time because it actually has a polarity slot and doesn't chew up ammo like the Boar.

[Amistyrja]

Hek's limitations at close range could come from a limited clip size, limited fire rate and perhaps slow reload time

Strun could suffer from reduced effectiveness from mid-range onwards

Boar should have ammo inefficiency and limited range as penalty for its uhhhh high dps at close range?

[neKroMancer]

Wow, why would I ever take the HEK over the Strun if it had an even longer reload time, a longer refire tate, and less damage via lower ammo pool and fewer pellets? The Strun wins hands down even with it's longer reloading time because it actually has a polarity slot and doesn't chew up ammo like the Boar.

You want range and damage - you choose Hek. Less pellets doesn't mean less damage, it just mean player now have to aim at long range in order to make sure that all of them hit the target.

Ammo pool isn't really a problem for Hek anyway. Did it ever run out of ammo? If you retain OHK property at range while limit the short range engagement with higher reload time and limited clipsize. This will make it shines at long range but gimped at close range, forcing player to consider other options and appropriate sidearm to compensate Hek's shortcoming at close range. However, with proper adjustment, all three shotguns should be relatively deadly in different situation.

If you are going to increase spread then there is no reason to use Strun. It'll be a direct upgrade of Strun.

[Tegajinn]

While I understand that shotty sniping wasn't intended, the current drop-off is far too severe.  I've found that the damage starts to fall off drastically at around 4 or 5 running steps from any given target or about 1/2 a medium sized room.  This means you need to be no further than just outside the Melee range of a Gram in order to do full damage.  The weapon is still marginally useful against enemies that prefer melee range but even then you're not doing full damage even at medium range.

 

The Hek was far too good prior to this patch but now it's mediocre at best especially during higher level missions against Grineer or Corpus where every fight is a ranged standoff.  The fall-off should be increased to at least 20-25m in order to cover that medium range engagement this weapon is supposed to be designed for.

[GTG3000]

While I understand that shotty sniping wasn't intended, the current drop-off is far too severe.  I've found that the damage starts to fall off drastically at around 4 or 5 running steps from any given target or about 1/2 a medium sized room.  This means you need to be no further than just outside the Melee range of a Gram in order to do full damage.  The weapon is still marginally useful against enemies that prefer melee range but even then you're not doing full damage even at medium range.

 

The Hek was far too good prior to this patch but now it's mediocre at best especially during higher level missions against Grineer or Corpus where every fight is a ranged standoff.  The fall-off should be increased to at least 20-25m in order to cover that medium range engagement this weapon is supposed to be designed for.

 

It was too good because they nerfed rifles before that, as it turns out.

[Tegajinn]

It was too good because they nerfed rifles before that, as it turns out.

 

They're getting too nerf happy which has never been good for a game.  I guess it's a habit of the less experienced game studios.