Hek, From Amazing To Terrible.

[AdmiralAvalanche]

they could've Nerf-ed  the mods or even Nerf the rate of fire. both would've made them balanced as rate of fire would get rid of a little cc and mods would affect the shotys subtle enough 

[Waswat]

... So I started building the hek BEFORE the update since i just recently hit profile rank 4. When i started building it I thought i'm finally gonna get a decent mid-ranged weapon so i can use my vipers as my secondary. Nope, it got nerfed to oblivion. I'm actually quite disappointed at the damage fall-off. I can't even kill cameras from mid range with only one shot.

 

I feel like the devs screwed me here. At least change the description to close ranged weapon instead of having it say that it's a mid ranged weapon because it simply isn't anymore.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Waswat

[Dasmir]

im going to bump this until to see a devs answer.

[GTG3000]

They probably won't, but hey, hope for game, not being nerfed into a grey pile of 'balanced because everything sucks equally' is all we have. Of course, I'm not saying that DE would do such a thing, they were awesome to this point.

[AdmiralAvalanche]

my reaction at first 

Edited April 27, 2013 by AdmiralAvalanche

[Davoodoo]

Ok lets make it more realistic 40m is effective range of most standard shotguns, 300m is effective range for assault rifles.this translates to 35-40m range at warframe for braton(yes i can reliably full auto with braton at 35-40m range). This scales to 4,66-5,33m effective range on our dearest shotguns. And you complain that 10m is silly range. Ofc we can balance it, let shotgun have 30m range, but then i expect 100% accuracy with gorgon and braton at 100m and no recoil.

.

[Morcant]

Hek devotees now have a reason to have their secondary firearm slot populated. Damage falloff could stand to begin about 3-5 meters further than it presently does. But aside from that I fail to see the problem, and welcome the changes to what everyone knew was a ridiculous, unbalanced weapon. To hell with realism, and the theoretical maximum shotgun range possible with slug ammunition. None of that applies. The weapon has to have tradeoffs to fit in the context of the game and competing options.

 

I, for one, am glad to see DE reining in power creep instead of expanding it so that everything is equally overpowered.

[Dredj]

Been using my Hek today after hear all the complaints, I'm still hitting and killing in 1shot from across a room.

 

Hek is fine, it validates people using Snipetron and Latron and semi-auto fire on Rifles.

 

I honestly think all the Hek users whining in this thread are pissed that they have to change weapons now tactically instead of having 1 weapon does all.

 

Fact is though that Hek was disgustingly overpowered. Yes I know IRL shotguns can shoot accurately over long ranges, but translating that accuracy into games causing massive imbalance, Hek as the example, that is why shotguns serve as a Blunderbuss in games, unless you go into somewhat realistic military simulators like ArmA or BF3 and with the right setup you can get those 1shot 100m kills.

 

In my opinion the Hek SHOULD serve as a longer range shotgun, so it should have it's range somewhat restored and it's damage halved, and if you know your shotguns in Warframe you realize I just said the Strun and Hek should have their damage swapped. The Hek had ALL the damage and ALL the range. Strun should have the damage, Boar should have the fire rate and Hek should have the range.

[GTG3000]

Ok lets make it more realistic 40m is effective range of most standard shotguns, 300m is effective range for assault rifles.this translates to 35-40m range at warframe for braton(yes i can reliably full auto with braton at 35-40m range). This scales to 4,66-5,33m effective range on our dearest shotguns. And you complain that 10m is silly range. Ofc we can balance it, let shotgun have 30m range, but then i expect 100% accuracy with gorgon and braton at 100m and no recoil.

.

 

"Effective range" doesn't mean "You hit every target in that range", it means "if you hit what you aim for, it's going to regret getting out of the bed today". Not to mention that automatic rifles were developed to compensate for bad aim and allow for suppressing fire, which doesn't work in the game. Maybe hek was op, compared to underused guns, but it's not a reason to make it a melee peashooter.

[Cleesus]

I think the real problem people were having that didnt use the Hek was that there isnt any rank 4 weapons other than the Hek. Which means all the had to do was create a new mastery rank 4 weapon that could compete with the Hek in some form, then all of a sudden the Hek doesn t seem so overpowered.

 

They didnt have to completely nerf my Hek into the ground like they did. All I can do is use my Boltor and hope they Fix the Hek or make a new weapon to take its spot. Until then I will barely be playing. 

 

The hek and the Gorgon were like the two guns required for high level defense missions like Pluto's

[Davoodoo]

"Effective range" doesn't mean "You hit every target in that range", it means "if you hit what you aim for, it's going to regret getting out of the bed today". Not to mention that automatic rifles were developed to compensate for bad aim and allow for suppressing fire, which doesn't work in the game. Maybe hek was op, compared to underused guns, but it's not a reason to make it a melee peashooter.

 

But that what exactly this thread is about "hek is no longer oneshotting whatever comes out at 30m range". Effective range also means the gun is expected to hit the target not only wound if it accidentaly hits.

 

Also idk why ppl think that when weapon requires rank 4 it should be better than any other. 

Edited April 27, 2013 by Davoodoo

[Strac_CRO]

They nerfed shotguns range too much.

Gorgon was fine as it was and there was no need for nerf.

[Spinner187]

 

 

Also idk why ppl think that when weapon requires rank 4 it should be better than any other. 

It gives a reason to Rank up in the first place. 

 

 

Or would you rather have it this way:

You see a weapon in the shop, but you can't get it until you level up you mastery.

You work hard and finally get that required mastery level.

Come to find out that weapons sucks compared to the ones you already got.

[LillySatou]

"Effective range" doesn't mean "You hit every target in that range", it means "if you hit what you aim for, it's going to regret getting out of the bed today". Not to mention that automatic rifles were developed to compensate for bad aim and allow for suppressing fire, which doesn't work in the game. Maybe hek was op, compared to underused guns, but it's not a reason to make it a melee peashooter.

 

Exactly. This is the point people miss constantly. You shouldn't make the range of a shotgun that offers a unique playstyle to the game melee range when, in that close of a range, melee is much better anyway. The effective range of the HEK is now just at/a little under the range of a Scindo, and a Scindo fully modded can clear a group of enemies in front of you much faster and more efficiently than a HEK can.

 

I brought this up before but I have to again because the point still stands. You cannot justify nerfing ANYTHING in a game that has no basis in competitive PvP combat. The HEK offered a different playstyle to many players with a shotgun that behaves like an actual shotgun would in real life, and not the over exaggeration of many games today barring only one game I can think off of the top of my head that doesn't do that (Which would be Payday: The Heist)

 

If this was an attempt to balance the game around more and make other primaries more useful, they should have looked at the other primaries and buffed THOSE to be more useful instead of mass nerfing the few decent primaries left in this game.

 

As of right now, the only thing worth using are the regular Braton, Braton Vandal, and the Boltor, but looking at how the HEK and Gorgon were handled, it might just be better to stick to pistols and melee completely.

[Davoodoo]

It gives a reason to Rank up in the first place. 

 

 

Or would you rather have it this way:

You see a weapon in the shop, but you can't get it until you level up you mastery.

You work hard and finally get that required mastery level.

Come to find out that weapons sucks compared to the ones you already got.

 

Just look, im rank 7 and i see no reason to rankup whatsoever. So instead of buffing mastery locked weapons remove mastery requirement.

[GTG3000]

Exactly. This is the point people miss constantly. You shouldn't make the range of a shotgun that offers a unique playstyle to the game melee range when, in that close of a range, melee is much better anyway. The effective range of the HEK is now just at/a little under the range of a Scindo, and a Scindo fully modded can clear a group of enemies in front of you much faster and more efficiently than a HEK can.

 

I brought this up before but I have to again because the point still stands. You cannot justify nerfing ANYTHING in a game that has no basis in competitive PvP combat. The HEK offered a different playstyle to many players with a shotgun that behaves like an actual shotgun would in real life, and not the over exaggeration of many games today barring only one game I can think off of the top of my head that doesn't do that (Which would be Payday: The Heist)

 

If this was an attempt to balance the game around more and make other primaries more useful, they should have looked at the other primaries and buffed THOSE to be more useful instead of mass nerfing the few decent primaries left in this game.

 

As of right now, the only thing worth using are the regular Braton, Braton Vandal, and the Boltor, but looking at how the HEK and Gorgon were handled, it might just be better to stick to pistols and melee completely.

 

Well said.

 

 

 

Just look, im rank 7 and i see no reason to rankup whatsoever. So instead of buffing mastery locked weapons remove mastery requirement.

 

Yeah, because that's not going to bite them in the hiney. Warframe is an MMO, and it's only starting to get filled with content. Having weapons accessible to every player and locked only by the resources is an awesome idea, but without the reward for getting all those ranks the game is going to end up quite unfriendly towards the new players. Not to mention that it's impossible to keep a game interesting to progress within, while keeping all the weapons on the same level, as ME3mp is eager to show us, and any future expansion of the map will yield higher-levelled enemies, while mods can level up only so much.

[Davoodoo]

 

Yeah, because that's not going to bite them in the hiney. Warframe is an MMO, and it's only starting to get filled with content. Having weapons accessible to every player and locked only by the resources is an awesome idea, but without the reward for getting all those ranks the game is going to end up quite unfriendly towards the new players. Not to mention that it's impossible to keep a game interesting to progress within, while keeping all the weapons on the same level, as ME3mp is eager to show us, and any future expansion of the map will yield higher-levelled enemies, while mods can level up only so much.

I always felt that all of mine rank 30 painted and properly modded frames are more reward than having high mastery rank.

[GTG3000]

I always felt that all of mine rank 30 painted and properly modded frames are more reward than having high mastery rank.

Can't argue with that. But at least some content should be restricted until second level or so. Once the game is big, I'd hate to be a newb, searching through all the wiki to see, what blade is worth it for him.

[Enlil]

#*($%%@ up to keep it short. This is rly bothering me. Hek is useless in mid range +20m. To what wpn should we look forward now?? starter wpns are the best wpn's.. all that is newly added sucks! I need gear to fight off those lvl 55's that engage frome 200m and shoot through walls, barrels and anything else that in there way.. seriously. whats wrong with the dev team to do so.

[Rafarix]

Hah... Remember back when the Grakata came out people said: If you mod the crap out of it it is good, and it doesn't matter because you can do that with any gun? Now that argument is untrue Shotguns like the Hek is pretty useless at "Mid-Range" (My definition of mid range) regardless of what mods you got. My "decently" modded Hek take 2-3 shots to kill a lvl 6 Grineer at "mid-range", because the pellets each do 1 damage. My hek has +75% AP +75 damage +45% Fire, and +45% Electric so it's not modded like crazy just ok.

 

On the bright side the Bronco seems to be not effected or barley effected at all. It stinks at long range anyways (Even says so on the description) so it doesn't need a nerf. From my few tests the Bronco can do as much/more damage as the Hek at long range assuming the pellets actually hits the target of course. Mods on my bronco is +20% AP +80% damage +30% Cold, and +45% Fire so it's not uber modded either.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Rafarix

[GTG3000]

Remember back when they added Ethers and we thought that future only holds good suff in updates?

[wqnmlb]

 

As of right now, the only thing worth using are the regular Braton, Braton Vandal, and the Boltor, but looking at how the HEK and Gorgon were handled, it might just be better to stick to pistols and melee completely.

Maybe next Monday they would say: "hey, I think people are using pistols and melee too much now, we should nerf that."

[Overkill.]

Yes, it might be disappointing.

But bear in mind that the Devs talked about balancing weapons. If the Hek is so overpowered, the other weapons will be viewed upon as 'useless'. 

Furthermore, this change is realistic. Shotguns are supposed to be effective in short range, not long range. If not, what are the snipers for? You can rage all you want, but dont take it out on the Devs. 

 

P.S. I have a hek and its supercharged too. 

sound fair so then the short gun should have a boost in power compair to long range snipe then

[GTG3000]

sound fair so then the short gun should have a boost in power compair to long range snipe then

 

Wouldn't it be way OP at that range then?

[Cleesus]

Remember back when they added Ethers and we thought that future only holds good suff in updates?

I remember those times, we were so innocent back then