No Glaive Blueprint? Fine, No Support From Me.

[Blatantfool]

I assure you that if the blueprint was a Banshee-esque drop or even something new that only appeared in high level defense missions, there would be much, much less outcry.

 

 This. If DE was like 'You can get it from Alerts OR have a shot at it on any Defense reward past 15 on Defense missions of X level or higher' Then I'd not have a single problem.

 

 Mainly because that would mean it could still be a goal for players to work for. It is being able to turn items of this value into a goal that is pretty important.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Avenwing]

 I think your view is a bit ridiculous. Gameplay is exactly the two words it is comprised of.

 

Game - you know, this game for instance.

 

Play - you know, as in playing it.

 

 If the game isn't on you aren't playing.  Watching Twitter is not gameplay. Going back and replaying Star Ocean 3 again until the Alert hits is not Warframe Gameplay. It is a lack of gameplay. A huge lack of Warframe gameplay.

 

 

 You aren't earning it if you don't even need to participate in the game until some random alert pops with some easy mission to beat. You don't earn something by just showing up.

Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game,^[1][2] and in particular with video games.^[3][4] Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules,^[2][5] connection between player and the game,^[6] challenges^[7] and overcoming them,^[8] plot^[9] and player's connection with it.^[6] Video game gameplay is distinct from graphics,^[9][10] and audio elements.^[9]

[Cakes]

As someone who THINKS THAT THE GLAIVE IS FINE AS IT IS, Sikab and many others have come up with logical arguments to back what they say up that do not boil down to "just wanting it for free".

 

The heat dagger IS different. It was available FIRST as alert only, and later became available on the market.

 

There is no difference to players who started after the heat dagger blueprint was added to the market.

 

Boss drops, [?] alerts, and credit payments are the commonly associated methods of blueprint acquisition. The fourth method, platinum bought to skip waiting for a [?] alert, was previously limited to the Heat Dagger only. Given the playerbase's minimal desire for it (used for mastery points, then left to gather dust for the most part), most players who wanted it aquired it before even really considering to buy the blueprint with platinum.

 

Some blueprints are [?] alert only and reward player availability (Dark Sword).

Some blueprints are acquired through gameplay (Cronus, Warframe blueprints).

Some blueprints are bought with credits (a ton).

And now the category of blueprints available from [?] alert only with a platinum shortcut has been made more visible (Heat Dagger, Glaive).

 

If having a blueprint available only through [?] alerts and platinum is really the issue, then this storm should have crashed back when the Heat Dagger blueprint was added to the market and thereby setting the precedent of a category of blueprints available only via [?] alerts and platinum. But it didn't, because at the time no one cared about the blueprints available in that category.

 

I still advocate just Rank xp locking the damn blueprint.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Cakes

[Blatantfool]

Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game,^[1][2] and in particular with video games.^[3][4] Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules,^[2][5] connection between player and the game,^[6] challenges^[7] and overcoming them,^[8] plot^[9] and player's connection with it.^[6] Video game gameplay is distinct from graphics,^[9][10] and audio elements.^[9]

 

 Now go ask the guy who wrote that if he meant it to be taken as

 

 "It is gameplay to watch a twitter feed while playing/doing something else."

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Cakes]

 I think your view is a bit ridiculous. Gameplay is exactly the two words it is comprised of.

 

Game - you know, this game for instance.

 

Play - you know, as in playing it.

 

 If the game isn't on you aren't playing.  Watching Twitter is not gameplay. Going back and replaying Star Ocean 3 again until the Alert hits is not Warframe Gameplay. It is a lack of gameplay. A huge lack of Warframe gameplay.

 

 

 You aren't earning it if you don't even need to participate in the game until some random alert pops with some easy mission to beat. You don't earn something by just showing up.

 

GW2, dragon timers.

 

RO, world boss timers, WoE, etc.

 

etc. etc.

 

A lot of games do not require the player to be on all day every day and reward them by just showing up at specified times. Those games, especially at end-game, devolve into clock/timer watching for a lot of people. The only difference is that for most of those games those times are predetermined while Warframe's is much more randomized.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Cakes

[Story4]

I may have worded that wrong and gave the wrong idea. Idk where this came from lol. Could you explain this?

EDIT: In my post, I meant paying to have the Glaive outright, not the BP. 

 

I agree with this, hence why I said it could be a "fix".

 

Ah then i misunderstood, i thought you mentioned buying BP for Banshee. I meant by buying 3 BP for 25 plat each because then a warframe like Saryn would cost 75 plat, but you had to wait 3 days to have it. If you wanted it instantly you had to use the rush button which is 50 plat so it would be more effective to just buy the warframe directly with plat because 25x3+50x3=225 and you also get an orokin reactor. But this is off-topic.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Story4

[Avenwing]

 Now go ask the guy who wrote that if he meant it to be taken as

 

 "It is gameplay to watch a twitter feed while playing/doing something else."

You still have to log in and play the game to do the alert.

[Blatantfool]

GW2, dragon timers.

 

RO, world boss timers, WoE, etc.

 

etc. etc.

 

A lot of games do not require the player to be on all day every day and reward them by just showing up at specified times. The only difference is that for most of those games those times are predetermined while Warframe's is much more randomized.

 

 None of those are gameplay. Those are waiting around.

 

 It simply isn't gameplay if you aren't playing the game.

[Maeroth]

are you kidding me? you are supporting this guy? The F2P community and even the P2P community should prefer the way this weapon was introduced, personally i think it shouldn't have been plat at all. It should have been a unique rare weapon, however if you don't like the fact that it is in fact a unique weapon that not everybody can get, but everybody wants. If everybody could get this weapon easily, then everybody would have it thus loosing its uniqueness. Nothing good would come from changing the way it was introduced. It should stay this way forever, in fact it should be removed from the market and just left as a unique weapon from alert missions. The people who are complaining about this are not looking at the whole picture, they are just looking at one small portion of the community that it will affect. Please, take into consideration everybody, the DEVs the F2P, the P2P the forum goers, the sponsors, the true gamers that Pay to support, but -play the game to get their items, and everybody else that I may be forgetting before you leave forum posts like this. If my comment gets down-voted I do not care, as long as people understand that forums posts like yous should be left in feedback and not general discussion, in fact should just be left out of the forums. 

[TheTenthDoc]

Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game,^[1][2] and in particular with video games.^[3][4] Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules,^[2][5] connection between player and the game,^[6] challenges^[7] and overcoming them,^[8] plot^[9] and player's connection with it.^[6] Video game gameplay is distinct from graphics,^[9][10] and audio elements.^[9]

 

Sidebar: I'd direct you to insomnia's vicious deconstruction of the nonsensical non-word that is gameplay, but all his content is paywall locked now. It doesn't communicate much of anything, it's always better to just use everything instead of evaluating a pattern. I mean, some people say Bioshock Infinite has terrible gameplay, but what they really mean is that there's no challenges or ability to overcome them.

Edited April 27, 2013 by TheTenthDoc

[Avenwing]

There is no difference to players who started after the heat dagger blueprint was added to the market.

 

Boss drops, [?] alerts, and credit payments are the commonly associated methods of blueprint acquisition. The fourth method, platinum bought to skip waiting for a [?] alert, was previously limited to the Heat Dagger only. Given the playerbase's minimal desire for it (used for mastery points, then left to gather dust for the most part), most players who wanted it aquired it before even really considering to buy the blueprint with platinum.

 

Some blueprints are [?] alert only and reward player availability (Dark Sword).

Some blueprints are acquired through gameplay (Cronus, Warframe blueprints).

Some blueprints are bought with credits (a ton).

And now the category of blueprints available from [?] alert only with a platinum shortcut has been made more visible (Heat Dagger, Glaive).

 

If having a blueprint available only through [?] alerts and platinum is really the issue, then this storm should have crashed back when the Heat Dagger blueprint was added to the market and thereby setting the precedent of a category of blueprints available only via [?] alerts and platinum. But it didn't, because at the time no one cared about the blueprints available in that category.

 

I still advocate just Rank xp locking the damn blueprint.

You've forgotten all the alternate helmets and alternate weapon skins.

[Cakes]

 None of those are gameplay. Those are waiting around.

 

 It simply isn't gameplay if you aren't playing the game.

Waiting around for the event is still part of the gameplay. Most of us just choose not to wait around in-game.

[Blatantfool]

You still have to log in and play the game to do the alert.

 

 That isn't something you can set as a goal and it isn't the same as working towards a weapon. You attend long enough to play through a quick mission and then you have the item. It is a pat on the back for showing up.

 

 It isn't something that makes for a reasonable or particularly satisfying goal. That is the big downside of relying on RNG for item distribution. Those items aren't earned, they are rewarded to players for attendance.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Cakes]

You've forgotten all the alternate helmets and alternate weapon skins.

But those aren't blueprints you can buy with Platinum, as you get the thing without going through the blueprint - > craft -> collect process.

[Blatantfool]

Waiting around for the event is still part of the gameplay. Most of us just choose not to wait around in-game.

 

 Then it is no longer gameplay - as you are no longer playing the game.

[Story4]

You guys saying that waiting for the alerts is part of the gameplay, i guess that if you pre-order a game it's also part of the gameplay because you have to wait until you can play it?

[JerryMouse13]

Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game,^[1][2] and in particular with video games.^[3][4] Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules,^[2][5] connection between player and the game,^[6] challenges^[7] and overcoming them,^[8] plot^[9] and player's connection with it.^[6] Video game gameplay is distinct from graphics,^[9][10] and audio elements.^[9]

 

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you for a better explanation than the one I gave.

[Fornicate]

You guys saying that waiting for the alerts is part of the gameplay, i guess that if you pre-order a game it's also part of the gameplay because you have to wait until you can play it?

 

I don't disagree with the fact that waiting for alerts isn't really a part of the gameplay. But, comparing this to pre-ordering a game isn't accurate. You can play the game, there is no waiting involved. 

[Blatantfool]

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you for a better explanation than the one I gave.

 

 He explained very little with his copy/paste. Your version of that definition is still intentionally ignoring the fact that you cannot be both playing a game and not playing a game simultaneously. If you are not playing it you aren't taking part in gameplay.

 

 I am not playing Warframe while I am out shopping simply because I am aware of Twitter. Nor am I playing Warframe while I play another game because I am mindful of Twitter.

[JerryMouse13]

But those aren't blueprints you can buy with Platinum, as you get the thing without going through the blueprint - > craft -> collect process.

 

But they are still purchasable through platinum, while only being atainable for free through the alert system.

[PhiZero]

are you kidding me? you are supporting this guy? The F2P community and even the P2P community should prefer the way this weapon was introduced, personally i think it shouldn't have been plat at all. It should have been a unique rare weapon, however if you don't like the fact that it is in fact a unique weapon that not everybody can get, but everybody wants. If everybody could get this weapon easily, then everybody would have it thus loosing its uniqueness. Nothing good would come from changing the way it was introduced. It should stay this way forever, in fact it should be removed from the market and just left as a unique weapon from alert missions. The people who are complaining about this are not looking at the whole picture, they are just looking at one small portion of the community that it will affect. Please, take into consideration everybody, the DEVs the F2P, the P2P the forum goers, the sponsors, the true gamers that Pay to support, but -play the game to get their items, and everybody else that I may be forgetting before you leave forum posts like this. If my comment gets down-voted I do not care, as long as people understand that forums posts like yous should be left in feedback and not general discussion, in fact should just be left out of the forums. 

 

No, it is you that is not looking at the whole picture, if not refusing to. I agree with the fact that if they intended for the Glaive to be a alert reward, they shouldn't have released it for plat only on the market. The problem is that the Glaive was only really released for people who are willing to give up $10, and those that aren't willing to pay that much are left at the mercy of the sadistic RNG system.

 

If the opinion of all these users shouldn't be here, then neither should yours by the same logic. Feedback is meant for constructive responses, where General Discussion is free game for any and every opinion, even when most of the opinions may be toxic.

Edited April 27, 2013 by SagamiYusuke

[JerryMouse13]

 He explained very little with his copy/paste. Your version of that definition is still intentionally ignoring the fact that you cannot be both playing a game and not playing a game simultaneously. If you are not playing it you aren't taking part in gameplay.

 

 I am not playing Warframe while I am out shopping simply because I am aware of Twitter. Nor am I playing Warframe while I play another game because I am mindful of Twitter.

 

They system itself is a part of gameplay. The alert system is an in game mechanic which influences the way the player interacts with the game. Thus It can be considered part of the gameplay.

Edited April 27, 2013 by JerryMouse13

[Story4]

I don't disagree with the fact that waiting for alerts isn't really a part of the gameplay. But, comparing this to pre-ordering a game isn't accurate. You can play the game, there is no waiting involved. 

Well i can't play with the weapon that i'm waiting for. Okay so pre-orders wasn't the best example, but let's say waiting for DLC to arrive. You can still play the game, but waiting for dlc isn't part of the gameplay.

[Blatantfool]

But they are still purchasable through platinum, while only being atainable for free through the alert system.

 

 I'd argue the reason those don't matter is slightly different. Just to do a quick spin on my heels to talk about this - I'm going to say that players have 0 right to the cosmetics of this game.

 

 There is no reason DE should be giving us those items through Alert. They simply choose to. This is them being good to the players.

 

 

 The Glaive is not like that, however. It is an entirely unique gameplay implement and now it is handled in the same way as those items. This is causing a fuss. Before now DE has been defended by fans saying "DE is entirely reasonable. Anything that effects gameplay is easily obtainable by just playing."

 

 Likewise, any argument about the collectible weaponry from Alerts was met with "As if those weapons are something entirely special? They are all just different versions of the Skana spread out with slightly different traits. They are collectibles."

 

 

 And again, the Glaive is not like that. It is entirely alone. There is no other version, neither weaker nor stronger, that can be obtained in any other way aside from random chance or direct payment.

 

 

 Glaive is simply not like the Collectible weapons.

 Glaive is simply not like the Skin choices.

 

 The problem is created, in my opinion, by the fact that this is a weapon people wanted to earn and now they cannot. They are instead forced to wait until the game feels like spitting it out.

[Blatantfool]

They system itself is a part of gameplay. The alert system is an in game mechanic which influences the way the player interacts with the game. Thus It can be considered part of the gameplay.

 

 No. It is not part of gameplay. You aren't playing anything. You are intentionally ignoring that fact.

 

 

 The Alert system does not instantly make everything you do gameplay so long as you are aware of the alerts.