No Glaive Blueprint? Fine, No Support From Me.

[Blatantfool]

Well i can't play with the weapon that i'm waiting for. Okay so pre-orders wasn't the best example, but let's say waiting for DLC to arrive. You can still play the game, but waiting for dlc isn't part of the gameplay.

 

 The best example is to not find an example. This situation is very plain and doesn't particularly need it.

 

 DE has been releasing other weapons as something a player can treat like a goal.

 

 They released this one as something you cannot. It must be obtained via RNG, thus removing the idea of having to earn anything from the equation.

 

 

 You could play every day until the Alert gives it up or you could play 0 until the Alert shows its face. The game doesn't care. You will be rewarded all the same for attendance. This isn't earning. It is getting a Gold Star at the beginning of Kindergarten class because you showed up.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Maldhyr]

I love this approach... either pay and get the goodie immediatly or do a lot of alerts and hopefully get the blueprint,,,,Seen many games that were not so straightforward. Most weapons can be gotten absolutely free... Not many F2P games offer this... Sure it takes a lot more effort to get this one by free playing only  but HEY; in the end even the DEVS need food.

 

Don't like it?? Go play a game where you buy the whole kahuna for 60,- but I assure you that you will get more out of yer bucks in this game...

 

I doubted whether I would spend some plat on this one or wait for the BP... I chose the plat and boy boy boy,..... I LOVE this one.

[Xtorma]

 The best example is to not find an example. This situation is very plain and doesn't particularly need it.

 

 DE has been releasing other weapons as something a player can treat like a goal.

 

 They released this one as something you cannot. It must be obtained via RNG, thus removing the idea of having to earn anything from the equation.

 

 

 You could play every day until the Alert gives it up or you could play 0 until the Alert shows its face. The game doesn't care. You will be rewarded all the same for attendance. This isn't earning. It is getting a Gold Star at the beginning of Kindergarten class because you showed up.

Those were the only gold stars I got in kindergarten :(

[Story4]

The best example is to not find an example. This situation is very plain and doesn't particularly need it.

DE has been releasing other weapons as something a player can treat like a goal.

They released this one as something you cannot. It must be obtained via RNG, thus removing the idea of having to earn anything from the equation.

You could play every day until the Alert gives it up or you could play 0 until the Alert shows its face. The game doesn't care. You will be rewarded all the same for attendance. This isn't earning. It is getting a Gold Star at the beginning of Kindergarten class because you showed up.

Yeah i know, sometimes i make stupid examples. But i do agree with you, i don't think that was ever in question, no need to explain the whole problem with alerts system to me. Edited April 27, 2013 by Story4

[Gestalt]

 Agreed, just make the weapon craftable and add a freaking skin for it if you want money!

 I dont play a lot of games cause of this kind of thing.

 

This is what I brought up as well in the update thread, and it seems people are against the idea.

 

If you want to vote this down, please do provide any feedback as to why this is frowned up/unacceptable.  I would like to understand what the objection is.

 

To make it clear, the idea is to make the current Glaive freely craftable in the market via blueprint, but provide a slightly different skin for Plat only: slightly bigger, shinier, has a different trailing effect when thrown, something along those lines.

 

As it is right now, I would really like to spend the 150 plat on the Glaive, but knowing it is also tied to the terribad system that is our current alert system, the possibility of it popping up after you've just bought it would feel like a kick in the face. 

Edited April 27, 2013 by Gestalt

[Avenwing]

 No. It is not part of gameplay. You aren't playing anything. You are intentionally ignoring that fact.

 

 

 The Alert system does not instantly make everything you do gameplay so long as you are aware of the alerts.

Just because you are not playing the game doesn't mean that an Alert mission is not part of the gameplay. It is, whether you want to admit it or not.

[Blatantfool]

Yeah i know, sometimes i make stupid examples. But i do agree with you, i don't think that was ever in question, no need to explain the whole problem with alerts system to me.

 

 Less explaining it to you and more restating my point. Figure I might as well continually build on what I've been saying every post for anyone reading later or following my conversation here.

[Blatantfool]

Just because you are not playing the game doesn't mean that an Alert mission is not part of the gameplay. It is, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

 The part where you play it is gameplay. (You know, when you are playing the game.)

 

 The part where you are not playing until it shows up is not.

[Xtorma]

Just because you are not playing the game doesn't mean that an Alert mission is not part of the gameplay. It is, whether you want to admit it or not.

This makes my head hurt.

[PhiZero]

I love this approach... either pay and get the goodie immediatly or do a lot of alerts and hopefully get the blueprint,,,,Seen many games that were not so straightforward. Most weapons can be gotten absolutely free... Not many F2P games offer this... Sure it takes a lot more effort to get this one by free playing only  but HEY; in the end even the DEVS need food.

 

Don't like it?? Go play a game where you buy the whole kahuna for 60,- but I assure you that you will get more out of yer bucks in this game...

 

I doubted whether I would spend some plat on this one or wait for the BP... I chose the plat and boy boy boy,..... I LOVE this one.

 

That's the thing, the method to getting the Glaive Blueprint isnt by "do[ing] a lot of alerts." The method is to wait for a specific alert that is randomly generated without a pattern. The mystery alerts we see in game may have a "?" mark symbol, but the reward has already been determined. There is no way to set the Glaive as a personal goal/destination, all you can do is pray that the sadist RNG system will pity everyone in the game.

Edited April 27, 2013 by SagamiYusuke

[Story4]

I love this approach... either pay and get the goodie immediatly or do a lot of alerts and hopefully get the blueprint,,,,Seen many games that were not so straightforward. Most weapons can be gotten absolutely free... Not many F2P games offer this... Sure it takes a lot more effort to get this one by free playing only  but HEY; in the end even the DEVS need food.

 

Don't like it?? Go play a game where you buy the whole kahuna for 60,- but I assure you that you will get more out of yer bucks in this game...

 

I doubted whether I would spend some plat on this one or wait for the BP... I chose the plat and boy boy boy,..... I LOVE this one.

Umm yeah the problem isn't that you can do a lot of alerts and get it, you just have to wait for the one alert which can take from a few days to a few weeks to appear and in the meantime you can do nothing. If there was really an RNG system in place for every player then it would have made it a bit more bearable.

[Avenwing]

 The part where you play it is gameplay. (You know, when you are playing the game.)

 

 The part where you are not playing until it shows up is not.

I'm saying you as in you specifically. Others are playing this game, besides when an alert pops up with something you want you login and play, thus you are playing the game. I don't see what is so hard to understand with this concept.

[Blatantfool]

I'm saying you as in you specifically. Others are playing this game, besides when an alert pops up with something you want you login and play, thus you are playing the game. I don't see what is so hard to understand with this concept.

 

 Make the thread and ask how many people are in a similar situation as either of us. I welcome it, the information is just as interesting to me anyway.

 

 See, I've only got one good pool of information to watch this trend unfold from.

 

 I'm in a clan of 900+ people currently. We rarely seem to see more then 50 online playing until an alert with a desirable outcome shows up. Suddenly the count jumps through the roof as everyone logs in, plays the alert, maybe grinds a bit and slowly the members trickle offline.

 

 This repeats like clockwork.

 

 

 So yeah you do happen to be correct - I cannot speak outside of what I observe. But I think just over 900 people is a pretty good pool to watch this sort of trend from. 

 

Edit: Who is even downvoting Avenwing? He does have a perfectly valid argument.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[JerryMouse13]

 I'd argue the reason those don't matter is slightly different. Just to do a quick spin on my heels to talk about this - I'm going to say that players have 0 right to the cosmetics of this game.

 

 There is no reason DE should be giving us those items through Alert. They simply choose to. This is them being good to the players.

 

 

 The Glaive is not like that, however. It is an entirely unique gameplay implement and now it is handled in the same way as those items. This is causing a fuss. Before now DE has been defended by fans saying "DE is entirely reasonable. Anything that effects gameplay is easily obtainable by just playing."

 

 Likewise, any argument about the collectible weaponry from Alerts was met with "As if those weapons are something entirely special? They are all just different versions of the Skana spread out with slightly different traits. They are collectibles."

 

 

 And again, the Glaive is not like that. It is entirely alone. There is no other version, neither weaker nor stronger, that can be obtained in any other way aside from random chance or direct payment.

 

 

 Glaive is simply not like the Collectible weapons.

 Glaive is simply not like the Skin choices.

 

 The problem is created, in my opinion, by the fact that this is a weapon people wanted to earn and now they cannot. They are instead forced to wait until the game feels like spitting it out.

 

I'll admit that skins fall under a different catagory, but the alternate helms actually influence stats. They're exactly the same as the glaive in the respect  that they're wholy unique. If this was a problem it really should have come up sooner.

[Story4]

I'll admit that skins fall under a different catagory, but the alternate helms actually influence stats. They're exactly the same as the glaive in the respect  that they're wholy unique. If this was a problem it really should have come up sooner.

 

They do have different stats, but they have very small differences and also they have downsides. I don't think that there is a helmet or skin that only has an advantage without a disadvantage.

 

The Glaive is a completely new weapon and mechanic, whereas helmets are more for appearing different.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Story4

[Blatantfool]

I'll admit that skins fall under a different catagory, but the alternate helms actually influence stats. They're exactly the same as the glaive in the respect  that they're wholy unique. If this was a problem it really should have come up sooner.

 

 Have you noticed a significant change in gameplay with a Helmet? 

 

 I mean - I'm not kidding here - I have every single Helmet short of Excalibur's and Banshee's. All of them. Right there at the ready. (All through alerts, no joke. In that sense luck has been good to me.)

 

 Now - I haven't used all of them. I only actually play an Ember at the moment since I've sold my Excal to make room for Nyx because she is neat.

 

 But the Phoenix helmet - I both have it and use it. And there is no significant change to anything with or without it. The effects are so small I don't happen to notice them running through missions normally.

 

 

 So yeah, you have a fair point. I just feel those absolutely tiny effects don't cause enough of a shift in what those skins are to matter.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Avenwing]

 Make the thread and ask how many people are in a similar situation as either of us. I welcome it, the information is just as interesting to me anyway.

 

 See, I've only got one good pool of information to watch this trend unfold from.

 

 I'm in a clan of 900+ people currently. We rarely seem to see more then 50 online playing until an alert with a desirable outcome shows up. Suddenly the count jumps through the roof as everyone logs in, plays the alert, maybe grinds a bit and slowly the members trickle offline.

 

 This repeats like clockwork.

 

 

 So yeah you do happen to be correct - I cannot speak outside of what I observe. But I think just over 900 people is a pretty good pool to watch this sort of trend from. 

 

Edit: Who is even downvoting Avenwing? He does have a perfectly valid argument.

I think I might have made a few fans last night. I've seen what you are talking about too and it is a problem, but I think it's more a problem with content than it is anything else. I'm hoping update 8 will change this a bit, and hopefully when they finally implement the story it will further improve peoples playtime. I admit I'm kind of bummed that there isn't much in the way of story and story is one of the biggest things for me when it comes to games.

[JerryMouse13]

 Then it is no longer gameplay - as you are no longer playing the game.

 

Gameplay does not describe the action of you playing the game, gameplay describes the manner in which the system functions and interacts with players.

 

I'll use another game as an exapmle, Vindictus.

In Vindictus the highest level raids are limited to a single run per day, after that if you want to run the same raid again you must wait until the timer resets. Both the timer and the wait involved are a part of the game's gameplay, as it affects the way in which you the player interacts with the game.

[Avenwing]

Gameplay does not describe the action of you playing the game, gameplay describes the manner in which the system functions and interacts with players.

 

I'll use another game as an exapmle, Vindictus.

In Vindictus the highest level raids are limited to a single run per day, after that if you want to run the same raid again you must wait until the timer resets. Both the timer and the wait involved are a part of the game's gameplay, as it affects the way in which you the player interacts with the game.

+1 I couldn't have put it any better.

[austinrelis]

Hello there.

 

I'm 100% sure I'll get downvoted. But I need to give my thoughts (even if no1 cares) about this new item.

 

I absolutely can't stand the way Glaive got introduced.

 

"Purchase now with Plat, or do Alert missions"... No. That's just bullhorns!

 

I understand Potatoes are Alert rewards... But throwing a Weapon into the pool of total randomness is unacceptable for me.

 

I have the Plat to just buyout it (as I always do), but what about our F2P community? Like a spit in the face.

 

"You want the new stuff? Pay or pray to the RNG gods."  <--- That's not acceptable, and I won't support this idea.

 

I was planning to upgrade to Grand Master when my monthly payment arrived, since I agreed with the desicions made by devs... But this -_- as if this isn't the same company i supported so far.

 

I seriously need to think about if it's really worth my time (and money) .

 

I'll never support Any introduction of weapons (which are core to gameplay) that is only available day1 for those who Pay.

[Story4]

Gameplay does not describe the action of you playing the game, gameplay describes the manner in which the system functions and interacts with players.

 

I'll use another game as an exapmle, Vindictus.

In Vindictus the highest level raids are limited to a single run per day, after that if you want to run the same raid again you must wait until the timer resets. Both the timer and the wait involved are a part of the game's gameplay, as it affects the way in which you the player interacts with the game.

 

Oh really? I'm pretty sure that if you pay you can make more runs than just one a day, it's just a mechanic to convince people to pay instead of waiting a day so that they can just do one run. I don't think it relates to gameplay that much, you just pay for convenience or trundle along day by day.

[Blatantfool]

I think I might have made a few fans last night. I've seen what you are talking about too and it is a problem, but I think it's more a problem with content than it is anything else. I'm hoping update 8 will change this a bit, and hopefully when they finally implement the story it will further improve peoples playtime. I admit I'm kind of bummed that there isn't much in the way of story and story is one of the biggest things for me when it comes to games.

 

 Yeah, well know that I happen to be taking what you're saying seriously. At least you aren't trying to tell me not playing the game is gameplay.

 

 Bad jokes aside,

 

 Maybe it is gameplay, maybe it is any number of things.

 

 But what happened with this weapon release didn't do anything but draw more attention to it.

 

 The hype train was going insane for this weapon - then this happened - hype train derailed. Hurt feelings and disappointment abound. Kneejerk reactions and people saying ridiculous crap like 'DE has sold us down the river' or 'DE has gone EA'

 

 But I maintain - this weapon should have been released as something for players to earn. We NEED more in the game to build a base to work off of to justify playing the game as opposed to leaving to wait for Alerts.

 

 Adding MORE to Alerts will never incentivise playing the game more, it'll just lengthen the list of things to wait for and slim your chances of the next alert being the one you want.

 

 That is a big part of what I'm saying. From the angle of the shop there just needs to be more to have to earn up for. We need a beefier selection to earn before we should be thinking about things to have randomly spat out at us. 

 

 Tenno Reinforcement updates before now kinda reflect that. Grakata? You can earn it. Akyros? Amphis? Fragor? These weapons can be goals. Can be reason to sit down and play some Warframe. They can be earned and then you get to level them and strengthen them and move on to the next goal.

 

 

 That isn't the only way DE could fix that content issue - sure - but that is how the Shop can help fix it. 

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Avenwing]

Oh really? I'm pretty sure that if you pay you can make more runs than just one a day, it's just a mechanic to convince people to pay instead of waiting a day so that they can just do one run. I don't think it relates to gameplay that much, you just pay for convenience or trundle along day by day.

There is a VIP capsule that allows you to do the raids twice a day. You have to remember though, this (Vindictus) is a Korean game and it's all about grinding for 10 years to get one item.

[Blatantfool]

Gameplay does not describe the action of you playing the game, gameplay describes the manner in which the system functions and interacts with players.

 

I'll use another game as an exapmle, Vindictus.

In Vindictus the highest level raids are limited to a single run per day, after that if you want to run the same raid again you must wait until the timer resets. Both the timer and the wait involved are a part of the game's gameplay, as it affects the way in which you the player interacts with the game.

 

 Avenwing gives me the idea he knows what he is talking about.

 

 I don't think you know what you are talking about.

 

 Not playing the game is never gameplay. 

 

 Edit: Also Vindictus is the worst example of a good anything imaginable - unless you are talking about the sales of Women's lingerie in Videogames.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Avenwing]

 Avenwing gives me the idea he knows what he is talking about.

 

 I don't think you know what you are talking about.

 

 Edit: Also Vindictus is the worst example of a good anything imaginable - unless you are talking about the sales of Women's lingerie in Videogames.

Mang, I bet they sell more lingerie than Victoria secret. XD

 

Gameplay and game mechanics are nearly interchangeable.

 

Edit: I think maybe the best way to describe gameplay is the experience you get when you play the game. Whether it's good, bad, fun, boring. Game mechanics influence how you experience the game thus the gameplay.

 

Not sure if I'm getting my thoughts across well...

Edited April 27, 2013 by Avenwing