An Ember Buff/rework

[TheDarkness506]

About the Accellerant rework, I suggest just one simple thing: Ember now "melts" enemy's armor, reducing it for some time 'till it hardens back, AND increases the fire damage dealt. This is going to be a great utility, I think.

[RealPandemonium]

The real problem is that she has a problem in her core design .

She is squishy ( 15 armor) and no natural sustain . 

Uh, pretty much only Valkyr is durable and has natural sustain.  Every other frame is relatively fragile and relies on shieldpool+Guardian or QT+Flow or Lifestrike/armor to tank hits.  You're not really supposed to tank hits in this game for more than a few moments at a time.  Avoiding damage entirely is the M.O. for most loadouts (hint: Ember excels at this.)

[Malikon]

At this point, I've determined that pretty much anything Ember-related coming from RealPandemonium and/or Azawarau gets my support.

[Xtenz]

Uh, pretty much only Valkyr is durable and has natural sustain.  Every other frame is relatively fragile and relies on shieldpool+Guardian or QT+Flow or Lifestrike/armor to tank hits.  You're not really supposed to tank hits in this game for more than a few moments at a time.  Avoiding damage entirely is the M.O. for most loadouts (hint: Ember excels at this.)

 

While what you say is absolutely true , that doesn't change the fact that ember has a problem in her core design . And this needs to change in order to make ember a better option.

 

Also about sustain , i didnt meant lifesteal or something like this , i meant as a way to handle damage/draw attention to something else.

 

My point is : she needs to get close in order to use  her abilities  . And you come to a point where you just can't because trying to get closer to enemies that one shot you is ..... problematic ?

 

Also the arrival of primed mods , and more precisely Primed Continuity helps her .... a LOT . I'm really looking forward to see what that void merchant has to offer next .

Edited December 16, 2014 by Xtenz

[Azawarau]

The real problem is that she has a problem in her core design .

She is squishy ( 15 armor) and no natural sustain . 

Her kit is DPS  oriented , and when the enemies becomes harder she just can't burst them so you'll usually die because you lack burst (right now) or you're missing some natural tankyness.

What that means is that she needs a total rework on WoF to make her Burst oriented  , or you rework again Accelerant to make her tankier.

Untill this core problem is here we won't be able to play Ember properly at higher levels

 

Maybe change the current accelerant , and mix it with the old overheat  ( to some degree) . Sounds fair to me .

If her casting were more sustainable and CC more solid she wouldnt need that

 

She should be a high risk high reward super DPS but isnt

 

Unless you accelerant melee

[SteelSoldier]

You would have to use Fire Damage on your melee weapon in order to take full advantage of accelerant though, it would be interesting if the Accelerant skill converted a portion of every weapon´s damage in Ember´s Arsenal to Fire damage, so she could take advantage of the increased fire damage buff she gets from Accelerant.

[Xtenz]

If her casting were more sustainable and CC more solid she wouldnt need that

 

She should be a high risk high reward super DPS but isnt

 

Unless you accelerant melee

 

 What do you mean by sustainable casting ? 

 

Also , her CC is reliable atm i don't understand how ppl could say the oposite . if you do it right you can control ppl for  8 secs . 

You mean a larger CC range ?

 

What i mean is that she needs to handle damage from enemies that are out of her CC range , or she get instantly blow up.

 

Also please look into the "new" builds you can do with Primed Continuity . She's in a better shape or at least she was up until NULLIFIERS CAME.

 

The new addition to the void with nullifiers completely destroyed her , you can't do what you were suppposed to do , litteraly. They have to remove those IMO i really hate the concept of those units , i'm okay with hard units not units that are invincible/nullifying  spells .

And i know why they did this ,i'm just really disapointed they added those units instead of nerfing the syndicate elemental mods.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Xtenz

[Xtenz]

You would have to use Fire Damage on your melee weapon in order to take full advantage of accelerant though, it would be interesting if the Accelerant skill converted a portion of every weapon´s damage in Ember´s Arsenal to Fire damage, so she could take advantage of the increased fire damage buff she gets from Accelerant.

 

It is already the case  .

 

Build fire to make your arsenal stronger(it works with allies too !).

 

And she is NOT a melee frame you'll always die in the process if you use your melee weapon ( atm you can only use your melee on 1v1 with dakra prime in order to Perma-stagger when you're out of ammo so it is very situational )

[BlockshotOrange]

I don't think she deserves to be a melee frame.

Even with Azawaraus demo, it's not something that I would recommend for any Ember player to do.

She should stick to ranged combat, and only move to melee when the enemy is close enough to engage.

 

Let's not forget about new players that don't have access to as many mods as all us veteran players (When I say 'don't have access', I meant 'they don't have the mods to follow the build yet').

Embers issues will show as you progress through the solar chart. Enemies get tougher, hit harder, and new units will appear; especially those damn Tar Moas.

 

That's why she needs more speed, ability tweakings, and crowd control.

Also, big buff to WOF in whatever way necessary.

Edited December 17, 2014 by BlockshotOrange

[Xtenz]

 

I don't think she deserves to be a melee frame.

Even with Azawaraus demo, it's not something that I would recommend for any Ember player to do.

She should stick to ranged combat, and only move to melee when the enemy is close enough to engage.

 

Let's not forget about new players that don't have access to as many mods as all us veteran players (When I say 'don't have access', I meant 'they don't have the mods to follow the build yet').

Embers issues will show as you progress through the solar chart. Enemies get tougher, hit harder, and new units will appear; especially those damn Tar Moas.

 

That's why she needs more speed, ability tweakings, and crowd control.

Also, big buff to WOF in whatever way necessary.

 

 

Tbh the only thing i would like to see is a mana cost reduction OR/AND  a wider range .

 

Also , she has enough crowd control already . You can crowd controll for 8 seconds . Wich is a lot .

 

But yeah she deffinitely need more speed . 

 

PS : my fire pillar (WoF) hit for 3.5-8k each time against lvl40-90 , i think it is enough . I heard a rumor about Primed streamline . GOD DAMN IT I WaNT IT EMBER IS GONNA BE GOOD (if they remove nullifiers :D)

Edited December 17, 2014 by Xtenz

[Azawarau]

 What do you mean by sustainable casting ? 

 

Also , her CC is reliable atm i don't understand how ppl could say the oposite . if you do it right you can control ppl for  8 secs . 

You mean a larger CC range ?

 

What i mean is that she needs to handle damage from enemies that are out of her CC range , or she get instantly blow up.

 

Also please look into the "new" builds you can do with Primed Continuity . She's in a better shape or at least she was up until NULLIFIERS CAME.

 

The new addition to the void with nullifiers completely destroyed her , you can't do what you were suppposed to do , litteraly. They have to remove those IMO i really hate the concept of those units , i'm okay with hard units not units that are invincible/nullifying  spells .

And i know why they did this ,i'm just really disapointed they added those units instead of nerfing the syndicate elemental mods.

Try keeping up WoF and accelerant with a build centered around both

 

Unless youre not using blind rage its incredibly difficult to do

 

The only time ive found it viable is in defenses where you can get enough energy to sustain large bursts as long as you dont use them too often

 

The battle between energy efficiency and duration and range that ember has keeps her from making the two viable to min/max or even high/high

 

Middle is OK if you drop blind rage but even then sustaining duration is an issue for WoF and range on accelerant hurts because of it

 

Alot of tricky issues with her

 

 

I don't think she deserves to be a melee frame.

Even with Azawaraus demo, it's not something that I would recommend for any Ember player to do.

She should stick to ranged combat, and only move to melee when the enemy is close enough to engage.

 

Let's not forget about new players that don't have access to as many mods as all us veteran players (When I say 'don't have access', I meant 'they don't have the mods to follow the build yet').

Embers issues will show as you progress through the solar chart. Enemies get tougher, hit harder, and new units will appear; especially those damn Tar Moas.

 

That's why she needs more speed, ability tweakings, and crowd control.

Also, big buff to WOF in whatever way necessary.

 

Not having the mods to build her that way yet comes with the package

 

If we were to substitute valkyr there not having rage or steel fiber then one would say "well of course, its because you dont have the proper mods"

 

In embers case it takes arguably more but still

 

Ember is an extremely viable melee frame and honestly one of the best

 

Her only read weakness is the corpus who tear into players at close range with their DPS far too much for her to be safe around them

 

Otherwise a good melee weapon and accelerant with WoF as a backup,fireball as a heavy stun, and fire blast as...well that ones not so good with this build most times but you get my point

[Xtenz]

Try keeping up WoF and accelerant with a build centered around both

 

Unless youre not using blind rage its incredibly difficult to do

 

The only time ive found it viable is in defenses where you can get enough energy to sustain large bursts as long as you dont use them too often

 

The battle between energy efficiency and duration and range that ember has keeps her from making the two viable to min/max or even high/high

 

Middle is OK if you drop blind rage but even then sustaining duration is an issue for WoF and range on accelerant hurts because of it

 

Alot of tricky issues with her.

 

About her stats , yes i agree she can't scale well because she scales and need everything (in  my first post on this forum i was saying exactly this)

Also i'm always keeping accelerant with world of fire or any spell . Trust me , i'm used to the warframe too i'm confident enough to call myself one of the good ember.

 

Primed continuity allowed me to get a better build and right now and i can do correct damage till  void mobs are 96+ Mainly because my range match the void's room. ( i did this right before nullifiers came into the void )

 

Yeah i think you see what i did :) 

 

Anyway with primed mods ember may become VERY good . (primed streamline for example or primed intensity  ! . Of course it's only rumors but i can't wait to see more of those !)

 

Until i have all those primed mod i wont say that ember is "meh" anymore  , because i have a feeling it might be her comeback

[DireMoose]

I don't know if this has already been said (I'm just not patient enough to read the whole thread) so I'll make it short and provide the only four changes I want.

1. Make her faster. What the heck could be slowing her down?

2. Make her have to rely on one less stat. My suggestion is range because if she's faster she can get closer faster (But give her a noticeably larger base range).

3. Give World on Fire a MINIMUM 35% chance to PROC (not deal blast damage) blast. it's an eruption so why doesn't it work like one? She needs cc if she can't get scaling damage. blast is perfect and it perfectly fits the theme of the ability.

4. Rework fireblast. currently the only two common builds for ember are meant for fire ball or WoF. My suggestion is that it's an ability to debuff enemies so that HER fire damage ignores % amount of armour unless DE decides to make that an augment for accelerant. If that is the case then change fireblast so it can deal more damage (the enemies only cross that barrier once) or perhaps if DE is really kind, they'll rework it as a close range retaliative shield bomb i.e. You push me I'll disintegrate you. Fire gets hotter when you get closer to the source correct?

 

[Bouldershoulder]

Ember is an extremely viable melee frame and honestly one of the best

Yes, melee, sure  - ,-

T4 capture: http://youtu.be/2JHFMQwi0xg

Without rage, quick thinking and auto parry she is dead on first encounter (tried 5 times, even with extensive use of her oh-so-great CC potential; there always is a guy who has just shown up from a nearby passage and shot your rump).

 

 

What you really need for good melee is a cheat weapon, like MK-1 Furax with seismic palm  (or Dragon Nikana with blind justice for that matter) =_= and a reflex guard + use block extensively. Darn, I've recently even roasted Stalker on Void lasers just by taking cover behind a corner and holding block.

 

But we are talking about skills here, and her skills suck against hoards of infested (which by design should be hear meal).

[RealPandemonium]

What you really need for good melee is a cheat weapon, like MK-1 Furax with seismic palm  

Why MK1 Furax?

 

Also watched the second video; what is the point of these videos?

Edited December 18, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Bibliothekar]

Ember is an extremely viable melee frame and honestly one of the best

Ember was a good melee frame back when she had her smouldering armor, forgot what it was called. The ability they replaced with Accelerant. Since then - not so much, because she has no damage reduction ability. You wouldn't call Saryn a viable melee frame because of Contagion, either, would you?

[billthebetta]

I don't get how all of her abilities(well, except for fireball, but 75% is pretty steep) focus on her being in the thick of it, but her stats indicate a ranged caster. Like a few frames, DE will need to decide what they want her roles to be before they adjust her.

[Azawarau]

Yes, melee, sure  - ,-

T4 capture: http://youtu.be/2JHFMQwi0xg

Without rage, quick thinking and auto parry she is dead on first encounter (tried 5 times, even with extensive use of her oh-so-great CC potential; there always is a guy who has just shown up from a nearby passage and shot your rump).

 

 

What you really need for good melee is a cheat weapon, like MK-1 Furax with seismic palm  (or Dragon Nikana with blind justice for that matter) =_= and a reflex guard + use block extensively. Darn, I've recently even roasted Stalker on Void lasers just by taking cover behind a corner and holding block.

 

But we are talking about skills here, and her skills suck against hoards of infested (which by design should be hear meal).

Your weapon is TERRIBLY weak AND slow

 

It gives her no mobility, damage, or stun utility whatsoever

 

You chose a weapon with little mobility and probably modded it badly too

 

VALKYR IS A BAD MELEE FRAME

 

SHES TOO SOFT EVEN THOUGH I USED MAX REDIRECTION AND MAX SHIELD MODS

 

I TOOK MY CERAMIC DAGGER TOO (THIS IS MY BEST MELEE WEAPON APPARENTLY) AND STILL NOTHING

 

Stop with the trolling already

 

Ember was a good melee frame back when she had her smouldering armor, forgot what it was called. The ability they replaced with Accelerant. Since then - not so much, because she has no damage reduction ability. You wouldn't call Saryn a viable melee frame because of Contagion, either, would you?

Saryn is a good melee frame for entirely different reasons but lets take a step back

 

You just compared accelerant,a radial stun that boost damage heavily, to contagion that boosts damage to levels nowhere near what ember gets and has no CC?

[Deviantis]

4)World on Fire

As mentioned above, 400 damage per fire pillar for 10 seconds is very weak and very short for medium tier enemies. A few suggestions to make World on Fire a good skill to use.

Or for the love of god can the gigantic 20ft fire pillar actually have an AoE?!

 

Also, for Accelerant, I'd love to see it have a 100% burn chance on the next fire damage taken, Because I just want to see the world burn.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Deviantis

[Bouldershoulder]

Why MK1 Furax?

 

Also watched the second video; what is the point of these videos?

Just an example of how even the weak weapon available for credits can do ridiculous damage if it's stance provides for this (did you notice how it breaks necks and makes finishers? It does not have so much base damage to cut over a half of HP with one punch in a combo to an armored heavy unit 30+ lvl and kill it with finisher afterwards). As for the dragon nikana with blind justice, well it just does 10k-50k+ crits regardless of whether it is an infested charger you cut, or a grineer bombard.

 

And about the video: you could have noticed I didn't use a single skill in almost 4 minutes (actually around 5 minutes, I have just cut the end of the video) and I was pretty careless about the incoming damage but still managed to kill everything in my path, it's because I had the right mods for this and a weapon that kills. The first two videos show how ineffective is her ult, it does miss too often, or the target limit prevents it from clearing the pass fast enough for you to stay alive if there are too many targets.

 

The point is: melee and her skills have nothing to do with each other (except for, I agree, the fire debuff from  accelerant).

 

 

 

= snip=

Your weapon is TERRIBLY weak AND slow

=snip=

trolling

Exactly the point I intended to show.

I've only seen your words so far

 

I'm not trolling. I'm proving you are wrong. Any warframe can do melee. And if you'd compare our profiles, you'll see that in less than a year you've made over 6k replies, while I, in over a 1,5 years, have made less than 300.

If you want an example of a melee caster frame: Saryn, she has toxin buff for here melee and venom spores which explode on each strike and infect everything around, she has high base armor and hp; Frost, he has high armor, his ice wave and snow globe slow the targets down; Rhino, high armor, iron skin, damage buff, rush; Ash, high hp, invis, and any moment you can just jump into ult; Valkyr, the highest base armor, buff/debuff for armor and attack speed, very cheap mass stun; even the durned Limbo is better in melee than Ember, he can walk around in Rift Walk non-stop buffed with Rift Surge and juts pick out the toughest targets, throw them to the ground with Banish and do finishers.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Bouldershoulder

[Xtenz]

Just an example of how even the weak weapon available for credits can do ridiculous damage if it's stance provides for this (did you notice how it breaks necks and makes finishers? It does not have so much base damage to cut over a half of HP to an armored heavy unit 30+ lvl and kill it with finisher afterwards). As for dragon nikana with blind justice, well it just does 10k-50k+ crits regardless of whether it is an infested charger you cut, or a grineer bombard.

 

And about the video: you could have noticed I didn't use a single skill in almost 4 minutes (actually around 5 minutes, I have just cut the end of the video) and I was pretty careless about the incoming damage but still managed to kill everything in my path, it's because I had the right mods for this and a weapon that kills. The first two videos show how ineffective is her ult, it does miss too often, or the target limit prevents it from clearing the pass fast enough for you to stay alive if there are too many targets.

 

The point is: melee and her skills have nothing to do with each other (except for, I agree, the fire debuff from  accelerant).

 

 

 

Exactly the point I intended to show.

I've only seen your words so far

 

I'm not trolling. I'm proving you are wrong. Any warframe can do melee. And if you'd compare our profiles, you'll see that in less than a year you've made over 6k replies, while I, in over a 1,5 years, have made less than 300.

 

 

in this video there is never more than 3-4 units at once and he nearly died. It's still S#&$

[Bouldershoulder]

in this video there is never more than 3-4 units at once and he nearly died. It's still S#&$

Make

a

record

period

[Azawarau]

Just an example of how even the weak weapon available for credits can do ridiculous damage if it's stance provides for this (did you notice how it breaks necks and makes finishers? It does not have so much base damage to cut over a half of HP with one punch in a combo to an armored heavy unit 30+ lvl and kill it with finisher afterwards). As for the dragon nikana with blind justice, well it just does 10k-50k+ crits regardless of whether it is an infested charger you cut, or a grineer bombard.

 

And about the video: you could have noticed I didn't use a single skill in almost 4 minutes (actually around 5 minutes, I have just cut the end of the video) and I was pretty careless about the incoming damage but still managed to kill everything in my path, it's because I had the right mods for this and a weapon that kills. The first two videos show how ineffective is her ult, it does miss too often, or the target limit prevents it from clearing the pass fast enough for you to stay alive if there are too many targets.

 

The point is: melee and her skills have nothing to do with each other (except for, I agree, the fire debuff from  accelerant).

 

 

 

Exactly the point I intended to show.

I've only seen your words so far

 

I'm not trolling. I'm proving you are wrong. Any warframe can do melee. And if you'd compare our profiles, you'll see that in less than a year you've made over 6k replies, while I, in over a 1,5 years, have made less than 300.

If you want an example of a melee caster frame: Saryn, she has toxin buff for here melee and venom spores which explode on each strike and infect everything around, she has high base armor and hp; Frost, he has high armor, his ice wave and snow globe slow the targets down; Rhino, high armor, iron skin, damage buff, rush; Ash, high hp, invis, and any moment you can just jump into ult; Valkyr, the highest base armor, buff/debuff for armor and attack speed, very cheap mass stun; even the durned Limbo is better in melee than Ember, he can walk around in Rift Walk non-stop buffed with Rift Surge and juts pick out the toughest targets, throw them to the ground with Banish and do finishers.

Youre not proving anything

 

Post count has nothing to do with whether youre a troll or not

 

A certain forumer from another forum famously hides and returns every few months to troll the forums and has been banned multiple times despite only having 200-300 posts under his belt

 

Youve only proven so far that youre bad at melee and ill tell you why

 

ANY frame can do melee

 

Any frame can do gunning

 

Any frame can be a power spammer

 

How efficient they are depends on the frame and the player

 

In your case you seem to only be able to handle lightweight melee with ember while others can tackle bigger dogs

 

Ember has a bigger damage boost that goes along with stun along with 2 more CC damage powers and a burst damage power that are all close range

 

Shes very suited for melee

 

Youre just bad with her

 

Make

a

record

period

Ive made a video showing her against lvl 35 grineer and that was with a less than optimal build

[Bouldershoulder]

Ive made a video showing her against lvl 35 grineer and that was with a less than optimal build

The only thing you've shown is scindo prime with life strike and occasional stuns with accelerant while 2 other guys from your squad were drawing fire to themselves. This thread is about warframe abilities, which you stubbornly continue to ignore, and they are absolutely unreliable, for very often mobs just ignore the fire proc and continue to shoot at you with no notice to burning.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Bouldershoulder

[Azawarau]

The only thing you've shown is scindo prime with life strike and occasional stuns with accelerant while 2 other guys from your squad were drawing fire to themselves. This thread is about warframe abilities, which you stubbornly continue to ignore, and they are absolutely unreliable, for very often mobs just ignore the fire proc and continue to shoot at you with no notice to burning.

Ive shown that and youve shown how quickly you die against infested

 

Do you really want to argue this?