An Ember Buff/rework

[Azawarau]

you're joking, right? Volt is lighting fast and has a shield/ steroid. Mag can give herself infinite shield with transference. Banshee has an incredible CC ult. Frost has very strong abilities that work just fine. Ash is still being used for t4 void all the time. Hydroid hasnt been out NEARLY as long as ember. Regardless of your point here, you are trying to be slick and dodge the issue. We are talking about ember here, she needs serious work, regardless of how you feel about other frames.

Of everything you said the only one where you brought up common use with was ash

 

Ember has a radial CC that multiplies damage to high levels and scales with weapons

 

Have i proven anything here?

[SteelSoldier]

Nova is essentially Ember on steroids, I just realized it

[cyrus106]

Of everything you said the only one where you brought up common use with was ash

Ember has a radial CC that multiplies damage to high levels and scales with weapons

Have i proven anything here?

No? Regardless of your points Ember still needs a serious rework. I agree other frames need some love, but they have their own topics. Can we not derail the focus of this topic? Edited December 21, 2014 by cyrus106

[SteelSoldier]

Ember´s Fireball and Accelerant are useful, but Fireblast and WoF are very lackluster atm, I would prefer if DE would scrap those abilities entirely and give Ember some really Nuke Type abilities.

[Azawarau]

No? Regardless of your points Ember still needs a serious rework. I agree other frames need some love, but they have their own topics. Can we not derail the focus of this topic?

You brought it up and ive been mentioning that ember has her advantages ad alot of the suggestions people make arent what she needs

[cyrus106]

You brought it up and ive been mentioning that ember has her advantages ad alot of the suggestions people make arent what she needs

How about instead of shooting down points, you could flesh out your own points. You seem just as passionate about it as some others, why not share some more ideas? Perhaps we can all work together here

[Bouldershoulder]

How about instead of shooting down points, you could flesh out your own points. You seem just as passionate about it as some others, why not share some more ideas? Perhaps we can all work together here

He's just worried DE might take away his precious accelerant for balance sake, when they've remade other abilities.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Bouldershoulder

[Azawarau]

How about instead of shooting down points, you could flesh out your own points. You seem just as passionate about it as some others, why not share some more ideas? Perhaps we can all work together here

Ive given ideas already

 

Check them out somewhere in this thread

[cyrus106]

Ive given ideas already

 

Check them out somewhere in this thread

I saw them, why not discuss them more? All I'm seeing from your posts is that ember is essentially fine and needs little to no rework. You truly feel she doesn't need any tweaks?

[Nitresco]

Ember DOES need a rework. Two of her abilities have lackluster damage at any above-average level of enemy and only a minor amount of utility. Accelerant is nice and all, but it requires you to use time and energy prepping enemies to be killed instead of just killing them outright.

 

To solve this, I have a few suggestions.

Bring back Fireball's lingering flame. This is simply a minor buff to increase crowd-controlling capabilities at places such as chokepoints.

 

Combine Accelerant and Fire Blast. Make it so using Accelerant also preps the ground below Ember as well as the enemies around her. This area can then be ignited by any source of fire damage to create a Fire Blast.

 

This leaves us with an open slot for an ability. For this, we can bring back Overheat. This time around, however, let's try and cap the damage reduction at around 50-75%. Ember doesn't need to be as tanky as she was previously with Overheat, but it would be nice for her to have a method of self-preservation again. This also synergizes with the previously-mentioned Accelerant change; if Overheat is active, the area is immediately ignited.

 

Finally, Ember's World on Fire. As it is right now, it's not too incredibly bad, but I feel that it should have an additional effect. So how about adding a small movement speed increase when it's in use? Ember herself is already below-average speed, so this effect should at least be enough to bring her back to the average.

 

These changes would not only make Ember a better lingering CC-centered frame, they would also allow her to get rid of her weaknesses in both defense and speed through the use of energy. Basically, what she should be: a caster.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Nitresco

[RealPandemonium]

Nova is essentially Ember on steroids, I just realized it

Nova is Warframe as a whole on steroids.

[SteelSoldier]

 But I also prefer Ember getting a full rework over band-aids on her abilities, we already know that her fireblast and world on fire are on a bad spot, the issue comes, if these abilities get buffed or changed, will Accelerant on it´s own make the skills far too efficient and far too powerful.

 

 Essentially what needs to happen is give Ember either only ranged abilities or nuke type abilities that are extremely strong, but in order to use them, she needs to be close and personal.

 

 I dont want a warframe that can essentially spam an ability and clear an entire wave and that has no level of skill or play involved, I just want Ember´s skills to be rewarding specially if you are taking risks.

Edited December 21, 2014 by SteelSoldier

[DireMoose]

I hear so many people talking about wanting overheat back, but all over the place it says that she sacrifices any kind of defense for pure offensive power. Therefore, I find it highly unlikely DE would bring it back. However, what I do see DE doing, is giving her some really nice CC on her skills. Fire blast ought to be reworked to be stronger CC than accelerant (Let's face it, that skill was meant for the damage buff not really the CC) and I sincerely agree that WoF needs to be toggle and scale somehow. perhaps make it target more than 3 enemies (absolutely worthless drawback that hurts the skill to no end)?

[Azawarau]

I saw them, why not discuss them more? All I'm seeing from your posts is that ember is essentially fine and needs little to no rework. You truly feel she doesn't need any tweaks?

If you saw them then why ask?

 

Discussing the good and bad of points is part of the discussion

 

Fixing world on fire alone would be a huge buff to ember

 

Its literally the start and end to all of her problems as a frame

 

Once its a toggle shell begin to fit into her role without the killing issues she has

[.Czern]

Fixing world on fire alone would be a huge buff to ember

Its literally the start and end to all of her problems as a frame

Once its a toggle shell begin to fit into her role without the killing issues she has

It's not enough.

She is too reliant on Accelerant, Fireblast needs to be more useful, WoF has 0 status chance and weird targeting, her speed is too low.

[Azawarau]

It's not enough.

She is too reliant on Accelerant, Fireblast needs to be more useful, WoF has 0 status chance and weird targeting, her speed is too low.

Can you explain yourself further?

[SteelSoldier]

 He has a point though, Accelerant is the only ability in Ember´s arsenal that has any form of utility, every other skill does absolutely nothing and that´s one of the biggest problems she has, the fact that she is meant to be a Nuke Warframe with FIRE DAMAGE.

[Azawarau]

 He has a point though, Accelerant is the only ability in Ember´s arsenal that has any form of utility, every other skill does absolutely nothing and that´s one of the biggest problems she has, the fact that she is meant to be a Nuke Warframe with FIRE DAMAGE.

Fireball is damage and small CC

 

Fire blast is damage and durational CC

[DireMoose]

Fireball is damage and small CC

 

Fire blast is damage and durational CC

Except unlike many 1 skills, fireball can miss. It's also not guaranteed CC. You CAN hit crit spots (headshot) but aiming is hilariously difficult when on the move. Try hitting a flying enemy with it in one try without practicing before hand.

Fire blast. Where do I begin? Well first off, it truly is not cost efficient. It's not affected by range and enemies need to cross the barrier once to take damage once and will MAYBE do it again if they follow you. Also only melee enemies are going to do that. Range enemies will simply shoot through it while they laugh at you and your health deteriorate. also you know how it stays at the same height as ember when she cast it? That means you can't hop on a box to give yourself that small breathing room to cast it. Instead, you have to be in face punching range. Another thing I've noticed is that when cast with enemies INSIDE the radius, those enemies aren't always panic proc'd even though I am using fire fright. It's also pretty exclusive to WoF builds as it relies on duration. The damage is also laughable. Even when stacked, I've watched enemies walk right through it like it wasn't there.

[RealPandemonium]

Unless you have potatoed a frame and have tried extensively to make it work (or actually understand game mechanics,) you should not be giving feedback on it.  70% of the complaints I'm reading in this thread are non-issues that reek of "I leveled it to 30 and trashed it" or "I don't know how to play this game without exploiting poorly-designed frame abilities."  This goes for most issues in this forum, really.

Edited December 23, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[.Czern]

Can you explain yourself further?

Accelerant: Currently it's her base ability, we use it to increase her abilities' damage (without it they are not viable in end-game [besides FBall]), increase weapon damage (provided that the player use Heat), get some breathing room (her only effective CC besides small FBall's AoE) and escape (CC again). So it's basically doing everything besides killing.

Fireblast doesn't work very often (enemies just walk through it), initial blast is useful but it's definitely not worth 75 energy. It should be either fixed so enemies never walk into fire ring (extremely good CC with duration build) or they are knocked down by initial blast. Right now it's better to just cast Accelerant if you want a radial CC.

WoF doesn't inflict heat procs and targets enemies randomly (+ that target limit... it's not that bad tbh). It'd be glorious if World on Fire actually was setting it on fire.

And her speed, short-range caster should be fast. Maneuverability as her main defense line? Would fit Fire theme.

[Azawarau]

Except unlike many 1 skills, fireball can miss. It's also not guaranteed CC. You CAN hit crit spots (headshot) but aiming is hilariously difficult when on the move. Try hitting a flying enemy with it in one try without practicing before hand.

Fire blast. Where do I begin? Well first off, it truly is not cost efficient. It's not affected by range and enemies need to cross the barrier once to take damage once and will MAYBE do it again if they follow you. Also only melee enemies are going to do that. Range enemies will simply shoot through it while they laugh at you and your health deteriorate. also you know how it stays at the same height as ember when she cast it? That means you can't hop on a box to give yourself that small breathing room to cast it. Instead, you have to be in face punching range. Another thing I've noticed is that when cast with enemies INSIDE the radius, those enemies aren't always panic proc'd even though I am using fire fright. It's also pretty exclusive to WoF builds as it relies on duration. The damage is also laughable. Even when stacked, I've watched enemies walk right through it like it wasn't there.

Unlike many 1s it has a fairly large AoE effect that guarantees a stun

 

You dont actually have to directly hit the enemy for that

 

The advantage of fire blast is that it cant lose range

 

Its always 15 meters regardless of your build and casts extremely quickly with a guaranteed stun

 

Its meant for choke points

 

If youre using it out in the open youre asking to get shot

 

You cant blame poor thinking on the frame

 

And were talking about ember here, who stays close, with fire blast

 

Shes going to hit things

 

 

 

Accelerant: Currently it's her base ability, we use it to increase her abilities' damage (without it they are not viable in end-game [besides FBall]), increase weapon damage (provided that the player use Heat), get some breathing room (her only effective CC besides small FBall's AoE) and escape (CC again). So it's basically doing everything besides killing.

Fireblast doesn't work very often (enemies just walk through it), initial blast is useful but it's definitely not worth 75 energy. It should be either fixed so enemies never walk into fire ring (extremely good CC with duration build) or they are knocked down by initial blast. Right now it's better to just cast Accelerant if you want a radial CC.

WoF doesn't inflict heat procs and targets enemies randomly (+ that target limit... it's not that bad tbh). It'd be glorious if World on Fire actually was setting it on fire.

And her speed, short-range caster should be fast. Maneuverability as her main defense line? Would fit Fire theme.

As far as i can see her only big weakness is theres always something way on the short end to get maybe one high and a bunch of mediums or all mediums

 

When WoF becomes a toggle the benefits of not having to mix and match corrupted mods so much will help make up for that

 

Fire blast could use some work but for the most part shell be ok

Edited December 23, 2014 by Azawarau

[DireMoose]

Unlike many 1s it has a fairly large AoE effect that guarantees a stun

 

You dont actually have to directly hit the enemy for that

 

The advantage of fire blast is that it cant lose range

 

Its always 15 meters regardless of your build and casts extremely quickly with a guaranteed stun

 

Its meant for choke points

 

If youre using it out in the open youre asking to get shot

 

You cant blame poor thinking on the frame

 

And were talking about ember here, who stays close, with fire blast

 

Shes going to hit things

 

 

 

As far as i can see her only big weakness is theres always something way on the short end to get maybe one high and a bunch of mediums or all mediums

 

When WoF becomes a toggle the benefits of not having to mix and match corrupted mods so much will help make up for that

 

Fire blast could use some work but for the most part shell be ok

I would like to know which tile set has no areas that are open  and non-close quarters. After you have done that, remember that the average player is going to go to tile sets that have open areas anyways. Also, after having seen this over and over again, enemies will deliberately go out of their way to avoid said flames which is a really pointless mechanic. Zone control is not something I'm against but on a defense mission it's only slowing down the waves AND making fire fright pretty redundant. Another thing worth mentioning: fireball is not guaranteed CC. It's likely, I'll give you that but it is certainly not guaranteed. In fact, only accelerant is guaranteed CC. One last thing about fire blast is that not being affected by range isn't really a good thing IMO. If the enemies are spread out or they are relatively large in number, you will more than likely not hit all of them. On top of that, not being affected by range is only a real advantage if there was an actually viable fireblast build out there which used narrow minded.

Edited December 23, 2014 by volcanix75

[DireMoose]

I know I've posted before a few changes about what I'd like to see in ember, however after reading a lot of this I can only think of 2 REQUIRED changes (I'll begrudgingly accept it if they provide these but no change to fire blast. At this point, beggars can't be choosers).

-Toggle WoF so I can tie duration to a concrete block and send it back to the mod pool. (I want this build [Damage, efficiency and range] http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Ember_prime/t_30_320004003_4-4-5-5-7-5-6-6-5-8-8-5-12-3-5-13-0-3-46-5-5-55-2-5-411-1-10_13-7-411-8-55-11-12-11-4-9-46-6-6-11-5-9-8-14_11/en/1-0-4 not this build [Damage, duration and some slight efficiency] http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Ember_prime/t_30_320004003_4-3-5-6-7-5-8-8-5-12-2-5-13-0-3-14-4-5-49-5-6-55-6-5-411-1-10_13-7-411-8-12-11-4-9-14-9-49-6-55-11-6-11-8-14_11/en/1-0-4 )

-Increase her speed. If I were greedy I'd want 1.2 but DE would think being as fast as nova isn't fair for some reason (It's totally fair btw) so instead I could settle for 1.15 or 1.1

[SteelSoldier]

Nova has a skill that lets her teleport around the map, Ember doesnt have that luxury.