An Ember Buff/rework

[geninrising]

It's actually quite a big deal. Fire procs for most enemies immobilise, meaning they're stuck in a perpetual fire proc. You've effectively got a limitless Bastille.

In addition, fire procs do 50% of the proccing damage again. That's huge. You're doing 50% extra multiplicative damage on your already accelerated damage. I'll throw some numbers at you to prove this mods worth.

Without power strength a max FB does 150 per second, with accel increasing this to 250%. Leaving us with 375 dps.

Add in the guaranteed fire proc and you get 375*0.5*2.5 = 468 dps. A net increase of 125% to your overall dps.

Now I'll add in a max intensify and a mid ranked blind focus for +84% strength.

150*1.84 = 276 dps. With accel, 276*(2.5*1.84) = 1269 dps for the ring.

Now the fire proc. 1269*0.5*4.6 = 2920. A net increase of 130% to your dps.

Still think it's a S#&$ mod?

It's a crappy mod because enemies do not stop in the ring. They pass through it and currently though it is purported to be 100% panic proc at maxed it does not. The enemies pass through catch fire and begin mercilessly raping the pod or whomever is inside 50% of the time. IF the augment worked as advertised it would be fantastic but because it does not stop them at the ring or panic 100% of the time it makes in absolutely worthless. Until it is fixed it is not a viable inclusion to anyone's build due to it's unreliable nature.

[Azawarau]

I would like to know which tile set has no areas that are open  and non-close quarters. After you have done that, remember that the average player is going to go to tile sets that have open areas anyways. Also, after having seen this over and over again, enemies will deliberately go out of their way to avoid said flames which is a really pointless mechanic. Zone control is not something I'm against but on a defense mission it's only slowing down the waves AND making fire fright pretty redundant. Another thing worth mentioning: fireball is not guaranteed CC. It's likely, I'll give you that but it is certainly not guaranteed. In fact, only accelerant is guaranteed CC. One last thing about fire blast is that not being affected by range isn't really a good thing IMO. If the enemies are spread out or they are relatively large in number, you will more than likely not hit all of them. On top of that, not being affected by range is only a real advantage if there was an actually viable fireblast build out there which used narrow minded.

Just about every tile set

 

you know i really need to make more ember videos sometime cause this is just a waste

 

Ill hit a T 4 survival or something

 

Nova has a skill that lets her teleport around the map, Ember doesnt have that luxury.

Thats extremely misleading and you should be ashamed to have brought it up that way

[Vallerian]

My issue with Ember is that she's squishy, yet all her abilities are characteristic of hard-core tanks in any other game. (Immolation cloak, anyone?)

 

Her range is sub-par and her cast times are a really really slow

 

All that, and plus she does like no damage to high leveled enemies..

Edited December 24, 2014 by Vallerian

[RealPandemonium]

My issue with Ember is that she's squishy, yet all her abilities are characteristic of hard-core tanks in any other game. (Immolation cloak, anyone?)

 

Her range is sub-par and her cast times are a really really slow

 

All that, and plus she does like no damage to high leveled enemies..

You can repeat things over and over but that doesn't make them relevant or true.  

[.Czern]

 

You can repeat things over and over but that doesn't make them relevant or true.  

?!

My issue with Ember is that she's squishy, yet all her abilities are characteristic of hard-core tanks in any some other games. (Immolation cloak, anyone?)

True and relevant, her kit is inconsistent and doesn't match her fragility since her abilities are short-ranged and have little to no CC.

Her range is sub-par and her cast times are a really really slow

This is true and relevant, this is thread about Ember after all.

All that, and plus she does like no damage to high leveled enemies..

Same. Base Ember is weak. With power strength mods she is good up to around lvl 40 and only with frequent use of Accelerant.

[RealPandemonium]

 

 

?!

True and relevant, her kit is inconsistent and doesn't match her fragility since her abilities are short-ranged and have little to no CC.

 

This is true and relevant, this is thread about Ember after all.

 

Same. Base Ember is weak. With power strength mods she is good up to around lvl 40 and only with frequent use of Accelerant.

 

If you equip Stretch her abilities all reach distant enemies except Fire Blast.  Fireball and Fire Blast both cause the "on fire" panic cc, and Accelerant staggers everyone in the radius for 1-4 seconds.

 

Fireball has infinite range, Accelerant reaches 30m with Stretch, and WoF reaches 22m with Stretch.  Fireball comes out fast and can be cast while firing, reloading, etc.  Accelerant also comes out instantly and does not leave Ember exposed after casting (lol Crush.)  3 and 4 are slow but can be used safely after Accelerant (or, you know, from actual safety instead of face-tanking.)  

 

Which warframe abilities do good damage to level 40+ enemies?  Pretty much only Ember's, Blade Storm, Miasma.  Blade Storm and Miasma are stupidly overpowered, but I guess that's become the expectation for all damage abilities now (great job, DE!)

Edited December 24, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[DireMoose]

I would like to ask everyone what the true and likely repercussions of giving ember the two most common buffs that I have seen people ask for (Speed increase and toggle 4). It just seems a little odd that a few people here are arguing over small points rather than expressing and fleshing out the details behind other, stronger points. It would be far more productive to provide a plethora of reasons to provide simple changes that greatly benefit ember instead of getting stuck shooting down the points of other people the entire time.

[RealPandemonium]

I would like to ask everyone what the true and likely repercussions of giving ember the two most common buffs that I have seen people ask for (Speed increase and toggle 4). It just seems a little odd that a few people here are arguing over small points rather than expressing and fleshing out the details behind other, stronger points. It would be far more productive to provide a plethora of reasons to provide simple changes that greatly benefit ember instead of getting stuck shooting down the points of other people the entire time.

Seriously, those two changes would make Ember good beyond doubt (also fix the Accelerant stun bug.)  Unfortunately, DE's answer to all shortcomings appears to be primed mods instead of actual tweaking.  

[Vallerian]

If you equip Stretch her abilities all reach distant enemies except Fire Blast.  Fireball and Fire Blast both cause the "on fire" panic cc, and Accelerant staggers everyone in the radius for 1-4 seconds.

 

Fireball has infinite range, Accelerant reaches 30m with Stretch, and WoF reaches 22m with Stretch.  Fireball comes out fast and can be cast while firing, reloading, etc.  Accelerant also comes out instantly and does not leave Ember exposed after casting (lol Crush.)  3 and 4 are slow but can be used safely after Accelerant (or, you know, from actual safety instead of face-tanking.)  

 

Which warframe abilities do good damage to level 40+ enemies?  Pretty much only Ember's, Blade Storm, Miasma.  Blade Storm and Miasma are stupidly overpowered, but I guess that's become the expectation for all damage abilities now (great job, DE!)

You can put stretch on anyone, that doesn't change the fact that her base ranges are very short for an immobile glass cannon mage. Excalibur, a melee-centric frame with fantastic mobility and CC, can mod his Radial Blind + Javelin to nearly 60 meters

 

If you take a look at other squishy 'mage' frames, (Mesa, Mirage, Nyx, Nova, Mag, Banshee, etc), they all have either superior mobility, tankiness, or even both - that's on top of most of them having a vastly better kit as well. 

Edited December 25, 2014 by Vallerian

[SteelSoldier]

Faster sprint speed and a toggle for World on Fire wouldn´t be bad start, I would also like if WoF cast time would be slightly faster as well.

[BlockshotOrange]

Pardon the late reply.

 

What do you guys think about giving WOF more fire pillars and a chance to knock down enemies?

[Bouldershoulder]

knock down enemies?

Why not throw them up?..

[.Czern]

Why not throw them up?..

Why not set them on fire?

[Bouldershoulder]

Why not set them on fire?

Yes. AoE dot with cumulative proc chance.

[RealPandemonium]

Make it a toggle.

[Aimop95]

I'd love it if her fire blast was turned into the eximus-punch-of-knock-down-everything with a 50% chance to proc fire. CC would be off the charts.

 

And toggable world of fire, as everyone else said.

[BlockshotOrange]

Why not throw them up?..

 

Yeah. Ragdolling them seems more appropriate.

 

And Boom goes the Bombard.

[Bouldershoulder]

Still, I'd stick with the concept of an AoE dot with fire proc. If you can't leave the world burning in your wake, you leave burning bodies, right?

 

And no! No togglables! I won't suffer another frame unable to benefit from energy restores

Edited January 3, 2015 by Bouldershoulder

[RealPandemonium]

And no! No togglables! I won't suffer another frame unable to benefit from energy restores

You can toggle off for a sec for each tick.  Also, implying that you leave your 4 on all the time in the first place.

[geninrising]

Still, I'd stick with the concept of an AoE dot with fire proc. If you can't leave the world burning in your wake, you leave burning bodies, right?

 

And no! No togglables! I won't suffer another frame unable to benefit from energy restores

This guy SMH, toggleable abilities are fine.

So what if you have to leave your ult to drop a pad and refill. The point is that Ember needs some major QoL work done and these guys are at least trying to get it for her.

 

Besides, her abominable duration on her ult or could it be the woeful targeting system on her ult could be fixed with a toggleable change(although I still want her targeting reworked back to the simultaneous burn on targets around her). If she is designed to be an infested killing machine at least make her able to handle anything that gets within her aegis of operation.

[Bouldershoulder]

So what if you have to leave your ult to drop a pad and refill.

 

The point is that Ember needs some major QoL work done and these guys are at least trying to get it for her.

 

Besides, her abominable duration on her ult or could it be the woeful targeting system on her ult could be fixed with a toggleable change

2 sec cast time. In order for her ult not to harm her mobility it has to be cast as fast as blessing.

 

Think carefully on what I have proposed.

 

Toggle does not fix it in any way. It wont help you kill mobs faster - it will only make her ult near infinite, which is lame. "These guys" want it to be toggle only to be able to maximize her power strength + power efficiency. The ult will still miss half of the targets and will do nothing to the infested when a disruptor shows up, as he usually lags behind the faster chargers and other light units, and fire pillars, as I noticed, tend to prioritize closer targets. So you are basically doing 1/10 of damage to the chargers while they tear you apart.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Bouldershoulder

[traybong111]

2 sec cast time. In order for her ult not to harm her mobility it has to be cast as fast as blessing.

 

Think carefully on what I have proposed.

 

Toggle does not fix it in any way. It wont help you kill mobs faster - it will only make her ult near infinite, which is lame. "These guys" want it to be toggle only to be able to maximize her power strength + power efficiency. The ult will still miss half of the targets and will do nothing to the infested when a disruptor shows up, as he usually lags behind the faster chargers and other light units, and fire pillars, as I noticed, tend to prioritize closer targets. So you are basically doing 1/10 of damage to the chargers while they tear you apart.

 

While I agree with the gist of what you're saying, toggle is an improvement to the current state of WoF and perhaps most importantly, it's one buff that seems plausible. With how long WoF and Ember in general have been neglected, a lot of people discussing "Ember buff" seem to go for buffs that would be the easiest and the most likely for DE to implement. 

[IlluminaZero]

Ember needs a rework as she is a joke presently.

 

WoF is terrible aside from hitting enemies when out of LOS, especially with the excessively long casting animation. Toggle would help, yes.

 

Accelerant as a team buff is terrible thanks to fire specific boost. Molecular Prime, Sonar, and Roar do the job far better. Relying on accelerant to boost her abilities to not be terrible just makes her energy inefficient.

 

Using Accelerant melee Ember is a terrible suggestion. Loki/Ash can achieve 400% melee damage effortlessly with invisibility... Which also boost personal and team survival. Radial Blind Spam Excalibur is also superior in every conceivable way: Offers 400% damage boost, gives reliable team CC, has more range, and Excalibur himself is slightly tougher. Even then it was a risky way to play before the LOS nerf. There is a reason why you don't see many Melee Radial Blind Excaliburs despite the advantages it has over Melee Accelerant Ember. Melee Accelerant Ember just fluctuates from not a burden to a liability.

 

Using accelerant to buff personal ranged? Hall of Mirrors + Eclipse boost damage far better and also make Mirage very tough to kill. That Mirage can offer team utility with Prism just makes things worse.

 

Overheat removal makes no sense on a frame that is designed with close ranged damage over time abilities... Especially as Ember has no mobility tools and lacks burst. Kind of funny that Mesa; a ranged specialist frame, can achieve 95% DR without any issue with shatter shield. Mesa even has additional survival and team utility with shooting gallery.

 

And while we are at it buff Ember Prime please. You cannot even use power creep as an excuse as she is inferior to Frost and Mag Prime. When I consider this among everything else I find it hard to believe that DE isn't going out of it's way to nerf Ember.

Edited January 3, 2015 by IlluminaZero

[RealPandemonium]

Ember needs a rework as she is a joke presently.

 

WoF is terrible aside from hitting enemies when out of LOS, especially with the excessively long casting animation. Toggle would help, yes.

 

Accelerant as a team buff is terrible thanks to fire specific boost. Molecular Prime, Sonar, and Roar do the job far better. Relying on accelerant to boost her abilities to not be terrible just makes her energy inefficient.

 

Using Accelerant melee Ember is a terrible suggestion. Loki/Ash can achieve 400% melee damage effortlessly with invisibility... Which also boost personal and team survival. Radial Blind Spam Excalibur is also superior in every conceivable way: Offers 400% damage boost, gives reliable team CC, has more range, and Excalibur himself is slightly tougher. Even then it was a risky way to play before the LOS nerf. There is a reason why you don't see many Melee Radial Blind Excaliburs despite the advantages it has over Melee Accelerant Ember. Melee Accelerant Ember just fluctuates from not a burden to a liability.

 

Using accelerant to buff personal ranged? Hall of Mirrors + Eclipse boost damage far better and also make Mirage very tough to kill. That Mirage can offer team utility with Prism just makes things worse.

 

Overheat removal makes no sense on a frame that is designed with close ranged damage over time abilities... Especially as Ember has no mobility tools and lacks burst. Kind of funny that Mesa; a ranged specialist frame, can achieve 95% DR without any issue with shatter shield. Mesa even has additional survival and team utility with shooting gallery.

 

And while we are at it buff Ember Prime please. You cannot even use power creep as an excuse as she is inferior to Frost and Mag Prime. When I consider this among everything else I find it hard to believe that DE isn't going out of it's way to nerf Ember.

It's amazing how people enter Ember threads and write essays about how bad Ember is that are identical to those that preceded them and have been rebutted countless times.

[BlockshotOrange]

It's amazing how people enter Ember threads and write essays about how bad Ember is that are identical to those that preceded them and have been rebutted countless times.

 

Yet nothing is done.

 

TYPE IN CAPS LOCK. MAYBE DE MIGHT HEAR US EMBER FANS.