"get Away From My Line Of Fire!" Or Melee Vs. Guns

[Noctis2792]

I think everyone is annoyed by how your bullets are blocked by your allies. And here just some little solutions to this problem. In my opinion friendly fire is unacceptable because it will just ruin the game at all. Speed of gameplay just left to space for ff(and, of course, some people just love to ruin gameplay to other people).

So my suggestion to add some sound and screen-shake notification when you are hitted by friendly bullet(in my vision this sound should be like bullet penetrating the cardboard XD). It should be not annoying but noticeably.  Sonner or latter it will teach people to stop running in front of your gunfire.

Another way to fix this problem is to reduce hit boxes for warframes and especially loki decoy skill. That decoy is so fat, that after placing a one, you need to change your position even you are attacking the Jackal.

And just for future, excuse me for any grammatical mistakes if i done any.

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

I don't think it'll be such an issue once the devs fix the net code/agro mechanics, as clients in co-op will no-longer be free to run around meleeing everything without ever getting shot.

 

That said, I don't see a problem with enabling friendly fire (perhaps with mirror damage too) - it'll make the game more challenging; something it desperately needs.

[Lactamid]

hehe mirror damage. My Snipetron hits for 300-1500 (and some 3-10K headshots on corpus) i wonder what that would be like XD

Edited April 28, 2013 by Lactamid

[DrCashew]

It would be nice if your allies had some type of notification to know that they were blocking your shots though, this would seem to work. Might be trollable though.

[NalkorRN]

I'd rather they make it so the bullets/bolts/projectiles in general just passed through allies harmlessly. You have any idea how painful it is to kill Councilor Vay Hek when the other three members of your team are circling and meleeing him and slowly whittling him down when if all the shots from your Gorgon could actually connect, he'd die that much faster? It's awful, especially when using weapons like Paris, Snipetron, or LEX, namely high damage weapons that take a while to reload and/or draw from a small ammo pool.

[Mietz]

I'd rather they make it so the bullets/bolts/projectiles in general just passed through allies harmlessly. You have any idea how painful it is to kill Councilor Vay Hek when the other three members of your team are circling and meleeing him and slowly whittling him down when if all the shots from your Gorgon could actually connect, he'd die that much faster? It's awful, especially when using weapons like Paris, Snipetron, or LEX, namely high damage weapons that take a while to reload and/or draw from a small ammo pool.

 

tell me about it

 

also additionally same applies to corpses, ive spent whole magazines shooting a dead pile of chargers instead of the ancient behind it.

[TehJumpingJawa]

I'd rather they make it so the bullets/bolts/projectiles in general just passed through allies harmlessly. You have any idea how painful it is to kill Councilor Vay Hek when the other three members of your team are circling and meleeing him and slowly whittling him down when if all the shots from your Gorgon could actually connect, he'd die that much faster? It's awful, especially when using weapons like Paris, Snipetron, or LEX, namely high damage weapons that take a while to reload and/or draw from a small ammo pool.

 

That's a seperate issue resulting from other flaws in the current gameplay model (clients being nigh on immune to damage & bosses being nothing but stupid bullet sponges).

I don't think using this broken gameplay behaviour as a basis for justifying FF mechanics makes sense long-term.

[MetalGerbil]

its combat, its suppose to be a bit messy. at least i think its a bit more interesting that way.

 

it would be boring if you where always guaranteed 100% shots hits so long as you aimed it. would make fights far too predictable and would really make them just point and click.

 

as to giving people ahead of you feedback. i dono, i can see that getting annoying as you always take random hits from your allies. 

 

bosses are being worked on and hopefully alot of the new ones will be more interesting. and should reduce this problem a fair bit. altho with only 4 frames in a mission i dont see why you cant just re-position. if you miss a few shots with your paris so what? you have 3 other dudes doing damage as well. its not that critical to get all your hits in.

[Mietz]

I don't think it'll be such an issue once the devs fix the net code/agro mechanics, as clients in co-op will no-longer be free to run around meleeing everything without ever getting shot.

 

That said, I don't see a problem with enabling friendly fire (perhaps with mirror damage too) - it'll make the game more challenging; something it desperately needs.

 

That's a seperate issue resulting from other flaws in the current gameplay model (clients being nigh on immune to damage & bosses being nothing but stupid bullet sponges).

I don't think using this broken gameplay behaviour as a basis for justifying FF mechanics makes sense long-term.

 

You've been on about this client being immune to damage S#&$ for 3 days now in all the threads no matter if or how its related to the OP.

 

The OP and FF has nothing to do with netcode and your lag issues, gtfo, srsly.

[Mietz]

its combat, its suppose to be a bit messy. at least i think its a bit more interesting that way.

 

it would be boring if you where always guaranteed 100% shots hits so long as you aimed it. would make fights far too predictable and would really make them just point and click.

 

as to giving people ahead of you feedback. i dono, i can see that getting annoying as you always take random hits from your allies. 

 

bosses are being worked on and hopefully alot of the new ones will be more interesting. and should reduce this problem a fair bit. altho with only 4 frames in a mission i dont see why you cant just re-position. if you miss a few shots with your paris so what? you have 3 other dudes doing damage as well. its not that critical to get all your hits in.

 

The problem lies in synergizing melee with ranged combat.

 

If 2 of your team-mates are melee oriented, they -will- block half of your shots. Its just simply not fun to play having two frames rush forward with melee, kill everything -and- block your shots.

 

Right now, if you find yourself in a melee-centered team, as a ranged character you are #*($%%@.

Your shots don't connect because rhino/frost block half the damage with their fat &#!, so you don't get kills, so you don't get affinity for the weapon. And forget getting at least team bonus affinity because the other 2-3 players use melee so...yeah.

 

This works the other way too because if you play melee-orientated with 3 ranged players, by the time you reach your target by sprinting its full of bolts and nailed to a wall.

 

We need some better way to synergize the frames or the ranged/melee combat.

 

I would propose air-launch abilities/moves that would let melee suspend their targets /above/ them so ranged can still shoot them, but then i'd repeat myself.

[TehJumpingJawa]

 

 

The OP and FF has nothing to do with netcode and your lag issues, gtfo, srsly.

 

 

Yes it does...

 

Without using a warframe with a decoy you can't simply run up to bosses and melee them to death in solo play; if you attempt to do so you'll be dead in no time.

 

As a client in a co-op match you can do this, and assuming you dodge any AoE attacks, will in fact take next to no damage if you continually rotate around the boss while you melee attack.

 

If this disparity between solo play & MP co-op is fixed, you will no-longer have players spamming melee with impunity, and thus these obstuctions to your fire arcs will cease to exist.

 

Many of the problems with this game stem from the broken net code/agro mechanics in co-op MP.

Edited April 28, 2013 by TehJumpingJawa

[Celestiae]

I don't have a fix for boss fights, but when I'm playing ranged and someone else is playing melee, I shoot at the things that they are not trying to stab. It works like a charm. I get done shooting about the same time as they get done stabbing, and then we move on to the next room.

 

I would love it if Paris bolts adhered to player models, though, just for comedy value.

[modded]

Yes it does...

 

Without using a warframe with a decoy you can't simply run up to bosses and melee them to death in solo play; if you attempt to do so you'll be dead in no time.

 

As a client in a co-op match you can do this, and assuming you dodge any AoE attacks, will in fact take next to no damage if you continually rotate around the boss while you melee attack.

 

If this disparity between solo play & MP co-op is fixed, you will no-longer have players spamming melee with impunity, and thus these obstuctions to your fire arcs will cease to exist.

 

Many of the problems with this game stem from the broken net code/agro mechanics in co-op MP.

Wrong. I can melee solo Phorid on Erid with my Gram with fire and ice mods.

[TehJumpingJawa]

Wrong. I can melee solo Phorid on Erid with my Gram with fire and ice mods.

 

/facepalm.

Congrats, aren't you clever.... you've found the exception to my sweeping statement. Here have a cookie.

Unfortunately you've completely missed the point of my post, so I suppose I better reiterate it...

 

Yes, of course, strategies and loadouts exist that allow bosses to be soloed. (Let's be honest, it'd be a bloody terrible game if they didn't!)

 

HOWEVER, as a client in an co-op game EVERY boss can be meleed with ANY weapon because THE GAME'S NETCODE IS HORRIBLY BROKEN.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I don't think it'll be such an issue once the devs fix the net code/agro mechanics, as clients in co-op will no-longer be free to run around meleeing everything without ever getting shot.

Clients can't do that now, dude. Certainly I've tried that repeatedly just to get plastered with bullets - only the fact that I typically run Rhino or Frost with high defensive mods keeps me from being downed. When I run with my Excal prime, I sometimes do get downed.

 

And I don't host much.

 

As a client in a co-op match you can do this, and assuming you dodge any AoE attacks, will in fact take next to no damage if you continually rotate around the boss while you melee attack.

No you can't. This doesn't work at all. The circle-strafe tactic against bosses only works with guns or when someone else is aggroing the boss because bosses usually have very wide swings. Example: Kril's hammer will catch you so long as you're within a ~180 degree arc in front of him unless you roll or get out of range in some other way.

 

Other bosses tend to be too fast to circle.

So yeah, no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Caiman]

Is there any reason why they shouldn't just let bullets pass through teammates?

Aside from "that would make things convenient, and CONVENIENCE FEATURES ARE EASY MODE."

 

ETA: "That would make my Cyborg Ninja Space Wizards game UNREALISTIC" isn't a reason either.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Caiman

[TehJumpingJawa]

So yeah, no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Guess it's time to fraps Solo vs co-op then...

[Guest]

give those who get hit by your fire the annoying heavy weapon screen shake? I'm game!

 

but then there are the trolls...

[bluehawk1976]

Yes it does...

 

Without using a warframe with a decoy you can't simply run up to bosses and melee them to death in solo play; if you attempt to do so you'll be dead in no time.

 

As a client in a co-op match you can do this, and assuming you dodge any AoE attacks, will in fact take next to no damage if you continually rotate around the boss while you melee attack.

 

If this disparity between solo play & MP co-op is fixed, you will no-longer have players spamming melee with impunity, and thus these obstuctions to your fire arcs will cease to exist.

 

Many of the problems with this game stem from the broken net code/agro mechanics in co-op MP.

Yes it does...

 

Without using a warframe with a decoy you can't simply run up to bosses and melee them to death in solo play; if you attempt to do so you'll be dead in no time.

 

As a client in a co-op match you can do this, and assuming you dodge any AoE attacks, will in fact take next to no damage if you continually rotate around the boss while you melee attack.

 

If this disparity between solo play & MP co-op is fixed, you will no-longer have players spamming melee with impunity, and thus these obstuctions to your fire arcs will cease to exist.

 

Many of the problems with this game stem from the broken net code/agro mechanics in co-op MP.

Your "sollution" will elimenate any melee attacks. The main problem here is no coordination between players, is — they are not talking. If people will communicate they will be able to coordinate their attacks. Some blockage will still occur,but that's part of the game.

Personally I like the fact that I can use both ranged attacks and melee,and I would to see any option elimenated.

[KageNoShini]

problem with talking, its a bit too fast paced to be able to stop and type whatever you want to say, or im just a slow typer.

 

Second issue, if you say to use a headset, majority of people don't even know this game has VOIP default to C, at least i think its C.

 

Then, the people without headsets, most probably casuals, (i do have one myself but im just saying), might feel left out.

 

Solutions:

Add that wheel thing from dota2 with the y key, its fast and easy to use.

 

or add the thing they do in tf2, where there are some macros with preset phrases, i think tf2 has about 30, but warframes amt might depend, since some frames, like nyx, need to designate a target for the team to not kill, so it can MC it, or other things

 

Stating what i think, can be improved upon, or alternate solutions suggested.

[HvcTerr]

As others have said, allowing bullets/bolts/etc. to pass unaffected through teammates is the simplest and best solution. 

 

Right now the map design practically demands it, given that your team is repeatedly squished through a small doorway or tunnels between most tilesets, and most enemies come rushing through those bottlenecks as you reach them too.

Edited April 29, 2013 by HvcTerr

[bluehawk1976]

problem with talking, its a bit too fast paced to be able to stop and type whatever you want to say, or im just a slow typer.

 

Second issue, if you say to use a headset, majority of people don't even know this game has VOIP default to C, at least i think its C.

 

Then, the people without headsets, most probably casuals, (i do have one myself but im just saying), might feel left out.

 

As for typing, I agree completley. As for VOIP, maybe they should put something in the tutorial or after to inform people,but really — this is a co-op multiplayer game online - any player should expect such system, and buying a simple mic is one of the cheapest thing anywhere. I just feel thatpeople should use that. You don't have to share your life story, just talk about the game.

Regarding presets - will help, but can't cover many possibilities.

[bluehawk1976]

As others have said, allowing bullets/bolts/etc. to pass unaffected through teammates is the simplest and best solution. 

 

Right now the map design practically demands it, given that your team is repeatedly squished through a small doorway or tunnels between most tilesets, and most enemies come rushing through those bottlenecks as you reach them too.

The whole point of a chockpoint is just that - to enable one or two people to hold of many more. If your enemies try to attack through a narrow tunnel, use an ability that will hit the entire group like the excaliber dash - they just end dead more quickly.

As for fire passing through teammates - don't forget that the enemy can't shoot through the meleeing teammates at those behind them,plus in a chockpoint they also stop their friends fire too.

[Zarvok]

I think something as simple as a % of friendly fire shots whether indicating you hitting friendlies or of friendlies hitting you would be enough. That way people can look at end game stats and see if they were in peoples way a significant amount of the time.