Excalibur Changes To Slash Dash And Passives Based On Augments

[FoxFX]

So after the release of Mesa and the 2nd wave of Augments. I have been at thought about how we can make Excalibur's Augments mean something to him. With Mesa having passives that improve the primaries/secondaries she uses, I thought about doing something similar. I know that [DE] has mentioned doing such a thing in the near future, but I'd like to make my suggestions about that:

 

Change in Slash Dash

 

I feel the idea of the "First Ability being a dash through attack" is a bit of a mainstream already. Rhino has something similar to that and so does Zephyr but she can just fly around with that (and Hydroid has an ability that goes through enemies like that too).

 

So I suggest the following change to Slash Dash:

 

1) Change it from being a dash through attack to a "Slash Dash allows Excalibur to quickly move to the targeted enemy and strikes the enemy with a heavy slash attack and temporarily stuns that enemy."

 

2) The dashing animation for this attack will have to be extremely fast and show very little delay.

 

3) Pressing the skill again will allow Excalibur to dash to a different nearby enemy with little delay.

 

4) Slash Dash gains damage based on the Melee Combo Counter.

 

5) The Damage of Slash Dash is scaled with Strength Mods. The range at which Excalibur can dash to an enemy is affected by Range Mods.

 

So what this would make Excalibur feel like he has some reason to use that Surging Dash Augment Mod as well as make him able to move from one enemy to the next with melee allowing him to keep that Melee Combo Counter going while also giving him some mobility. It also gives some incentive for players to use Furious Javelin which will not only stun the enemy but also gives Excalibur that additional melee damage and traverse capabilities.

 

Excalibur Passives

 

Much like How Mesa has passives, here are some suggestions as to make not only Excalibur balanced enough to fight with his primaries/secondaries, but to also give him the reason why he is called "Excalibur."

 

Excalibur gains these Passive buffs when switching to Melee Mode:

 

+1% critical chance per Melee Combo Counter (caps @ 30 Counters)

+0.1 critical damage per Melee Combo Counter (caps @ 30 counters)

+100% Finisher Damage

+30% damage when wielding Swords, Glaive, or Nikana

-50% Stamina cost when attacking and blocking with Swords, Glaive, or Nikana

 

 

So what I thought out was to give Excalibur a reason to go Sword Alone with these passives (as well as give some players a feeling of being Hayden Tenno with a Glaive). I need your opinion on all this as well as my thoughts on the change to Slash Dash I suggested.

 

Also, check out r0ckwolf's thread on the changes of Excalibur: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/230673-excalibur-20-post-u15-review-and-feedback-now-with-surging-dash-and-passives/

 

Additional Ideas with above proposal:

 

From Hybridon

Slash Dash can hitting enemies in the way for 50% of the damage with proposed changes.

 

From Thaumatos

The melee combo counter needs to slowly tick down, with an increasing rate, instead of just getting zapped in 3 seconds.

 

Excalibur Passive: 20% Faster swap to melee

 

10% Movement from Directional Melee Attacks

Edited December 21, 2014 by FoxFX

[Xiusa]

+1% critical chance per Melee Combo Counter

Is this a flat increase to the base chance or does it function like True Steel?

[FoxFX]

Is this a flat increase to the base chance or does it function like True Steel?

 

Was thinking of Base at first, but I need to look more into how it should change as a True Steel-like system

[Hybridon]

They can actually keep the current slash dash animation.

 

What do you think of it still hitting enemies in the way for 50% of the damage? that would be quite useful to enhance his melee role.

[Xiusa]

Was thinking of Base at first, but I need to look more into how it should change as a True Steel-like system

I think both have potential, really. It's more the thought of: What's more balanced? Getting a hit-counter of 30 would either give your Nikana a 13% chance to crit or a 40% chance to crit?

[ThatOneWolfGuy]

BUMP.

[FoxFX]

I think both have potential, really. It's more the thought of: What's more balanced? Getting a hit-counter of 30 would either give your Nikana a 13% chance to crit or a 40% chance to crit?

 

I'm more inclined to thinking of a 40% chance due to how the game can be in terms of enemy scaling.

[FoxFX]

They can actually keep the current slash dash animation.

 

What do you think of it still hitting enemies in the way for 50% of the damage? that would be quite useful to enhance his melee role.

That sounds like a decent addition.

 

The main focus I had was to make Slash Dash a setup for Excalibur to gain distance to keep the Melee Combo Counter. But then again with this idea and the addition of Surging Dash, Excalibur would be retaining Melee Combo Counters immensely which I find to be not too bad of a buff.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I don't like passives that provide flat bonuses. 

[Fierach]

I like these changes, and if newer Warframes are gonna get passives, like Mesa, I expect the older Warframes to get them too, and for Excalibur's passives to match his theme as a sword-based frame. I especially like the idea of the Slash Dash change, but I feel like it might be too much of an overlap or improved version compared to Ash's teleport to enemy and stun for finisher. How about if at the end of Slash Dash, a portion of the SD's damage was added to Excalibur for a single melee strike?

Edited December 18, 2014 by Fierach

[FoxFX]

I don't like passives that provide flat bonuses. 

I was attempting to follow passives similar to how [DE] has done with Mesa.

 

What would you suggest could be a doable passive for Excalibur based on the Augments Furious Javelin and Surging Dash?

[FoxFX]

I like these changes. I especially like the idea of the Slash Dash change, but I feel like it might be too much of an overlap or improved version compared to Ash's teleport to enemy and stun for finisher. How about if at the end of Slash Dash, a portion of the SD's damage was added to Excalibur for a single melee strike?

You mean like how Mesa's First Ability Ballistic Battery is like only that it takes whatever damage Slash Dash has done to that enemy and gives it to Excalibur's first Melee attack?

[sedu13]

You know what Excalibur needed? For Surging Dash to have been incorporated in Slash Dash in the first place, and make Surging have a different effect, like a small AOE shockwave causing impact proc per enemy hit.

[Fierach]

 

You mean like how Mesa's First Ability Ballistic Battery is like only that it takes whatever damage Slash Dash has done to that enemy and gives it to Excalibur's first Melee attack?

 

I think the difference would be that Mesa's 1 gathers power based on damage Mesa has done until its unleashed, and Excalibur's SD adds damage to his melee based on the power of the SD, not any damage done by it to a target/targets along the way.

[FoxFX]

   

I think the difference would be that Mesa's 1 gathers power based on damage Mesa has done until its unleashed, and Excalibur's SD adds damage to his melee based on the power of the SD, not any damage done by it to a target/targets along the way.

I think with the way Melee 2.0 buffs up melee damage with the Melee Combo Counter and with Slash Dash's proposed "damage increases base on Melee Combo Counter," it would be enough without that melee buff with Slash Dash.

[FoxFX]

I added a limit to how much Crit Damage/Chance you can get with the proposed Excalibur Passives

[Kuboy]

Fun fact:

 

DE won't consider anything here

[FoxFX]

Fun fact:

 

DE won't consider anything here

Please show some respect and keep your insults to yourself ok?

[FoxFX]

Made some changes to the passive to make Excalibur feel more like a swordsman and also added in a link for another Excalibur discussion thread.

 

Please feel free to write down any suggestions about Excalibur and the Augments he has now and what can be suggested to make Excalibur's toolset be more melee-friendly.

[shut]

1) Change it from being a dash through attack to a "Slash Dash allows Excalibur to quickly move to the targeted enemy and strikes the enemy with a heavy slash attack and temporarily stuns that enemy."

 

I don't like this.

 

What's wrong with the concept of our current Slash Dash itself? If the problem is that other Frames have a similar ability, then that's hardly Excal's problem; he had this ability first and a "vanilla"-feeling ability like this is a conceptual part of his moveset. The concept of our simple charge-forward-and-hit-everything-in-that-general-direction ability is perfectly fine; it's just the viability that needs a couple of small buffs.

 

 

What I think should be done to Slash Dash is:

- Allow SD to add to, and scale from, melee combos. SD will add 1 to the combo for every enemy hit.

- Leave Surging Dash unchanged, so you end up with 5 to the combo per enemy hit with that mod equipped.

- Do not let Slash Dash scale from melee damage. We don't need another Valkyr situation, where melee variety is discouraged; all builds should be usable with Excal without gimping yourself.

[FoxFX]

I don't like this.

 

What's wrong with the concept of our current Slash Dash itself? If the problem is that other Frames have a similar ability, then that's hardly Excal's problem; he had this ability first and a "vanilla"-feeling ability like this is a conceptual part of his moveset. The concept of our simple charge-forward-and-hit-everything-in-that-general-direction ability is perfectly fine; it's just the viability that needs a couple of small buffs.

 

 

What I think should be done to Slash Dash is:

- Allow SD to add to, and scale from, melee combos. SD will add 1 to the combo for every enemy hit.

- Leave Surging Dash unchanged, so you end up with 5 to the combo per enemy hit with that mod equipped.

- Do not let Slash Dash scale from melee damage. We don't need another Valkyr situation, where melee variety is discouraged; all builds should be usable with Excal without gimping yourself.

 

One thing I agree on is that Slash Dash should NOT scale with melee damage, but it should be stronger based on the Melee Combo Counter Excalibur currently has upon using it.

 

That being said, part of the reason was indeed because there have been many Warframes that have similar abilities like Slash Dash but all do much more for those Warframes utility wise and effect wise than what Slash Dash does for Excalibur now. With the way DE has been giving Excalibur Augments, they seem to want him be more geared to melee-style which can work. However, he needs a way to utilize those Melee Counters and melee damage buffs from those Augments to his advantage especially at higher end level fights.

 

Which is why I believed that a Slash Dash with low delay that rushes into an enemy with a slash attack so that Excalibur can follow that up instantly with a melee combo was the main idea behind this Slash Dash idea.

[FoxFX]

Any other concerns about Excalibur and his presented Augments and how Excalibur's skillset should change to benefit from those Augments?

[FoxFX]

Well one last thought was for DE to add in a Melee Mod that increases the duration of the Melee Combo Counter timer

[Thaumatos]

Well one last thought was for DE to add in a Melee Mod that increases the duration of the Melee Combo Counter timer

:sadface:

 

No more mods, DE!  Fix quality-of-life issues by changing the game, not eating another slot on people's gear (no offense FoxFX, not directed at you).

 

The melee combo counter needs to slowly tick down, with an increasing rate, instead of just getting zapped in 3 seconds.  That would be beneficial to melee in general, and everyone should get it.

 

Passives need to be things that don't change the game but nudge you toward a particular playstyle.  Swords are definitely xcal's bit, but you don't want to make his melee far greater than anything else on earth.  Also, you don't want to make the swordless xcal frame significantly less viable.  On xcal in particular, I think his passives should be:

• 20% Faster swap to melee
• 5% Increased Slash damage from any source (melee or not)
• 10% Increased Slash proc rate from any source (melee or not)
• 10% Movement from Directional Melee Attacks(since they're so much like Slash Dash/Super Jump)

 

Powerful, yet not game-breaking or build-defining.  Percentages would work the same way mods do, not added to base but derived from base.

 

As far as Slash Dash, it should scale in damage from the melee combo counter as a base; then Surging Dash could be left as-is.

[FoxFX]

:sadface:

 

No more mods, DE!  Fix quality-of-life issues by changing the game, not eating another slot on people's gear (no offense FoxFX, not directed at you).

 

The melee combo counter needs to slowly tick down, with an increasing rate, instead of just getting zapped in 3 seconds.  That would be beneficial to melee in general, and everyone should get it.

 

Passives need to be things that don't change the game but nudge you toward a particular playstyle.  Swords are definitely xcal's bit, but you don't want to make his melee far greater than anything else on earth.  Also, you don't want to make the swordless xcal frame significantly less viable.  On xcal in particular, I think his passives should be:

• 20% Faster swap to melee
• 5% Increased Slash damage from any source (melee or not)
• 10% Increased Slash proc rate from any source (melee or not)
• 10% Movement from Directional Melee Attacks(since they're so much like Slash Dash/Super Jump)

 

Powerful, yet not game-breaking or build-defining.  Percentages would work the same way mods do, not added to base but derived from base.

 

As far as Slash Dash, it should scale in damage from the melee combo counter as a base; then Surging Dash could be left as-is.

 

I agree that Slash Dash should get stronger with Melee Combos and the idea of changing how Melee Combo Counters behave should indeed be somehow like that (I'll add that to the OP).

 

The idea for your passives I am trying to steer away however based on what DE. Based on the passives DE gave to Mesa, they want passives to be directly influence the abilities of the weapons the Warframe uses and not just "from all sources" which can also include abilities.

 

Also, one of the main issues I see players complain at sometime is that even with Melee 2.0, melee tactics still fall short in comparison to Primaries and Secondaries on any level especially at high end fights.