Excalibur Changes To Slash Dash And Passives Based On Augments

[Thaumatos]

Also, one of the main issues I see players complain at sometime is that even with Melee 2.0, melee tactics still fall short in comparison to Primaries and Secondaries on any level especially at high end fights.

That's mostly because ranged DPS is so astronomically high in Warframe that any mobs who won't die to ranged DPS faster than they get to you are too powerful for you to fight toe-to-toe.  They need to get so strong that they mop the floor with you before you have a risk of being forced into melee combat.  And by then it's impossible to melee without a gimmick like Hysteria.  Even with all that, you still have many, many CC abilities across all frames that will nullify the slightest thought of melee combat.

 

The only reason I melee is because I like it.  If I wanted to grind as efficiently as possible, I'd use my guns and frames with a '4' ability that kills everything everywhere.

 

This is what we saw with Viver.  Once people had a reason to go nuts with grinding, they found the most efficient way to do it.  Warframe can still be heavily exploited like that...people just don't have a reason to.

[shut]

One thing I agree on is that Slash Dash should NOT scale with melee damage, but it should be stronger based on the Melee Combo Counter Excalibur currently has upon using it.

 

That being said, part of the reason was indeed because there have been many Warframes that have similar abilities like Slash Dash but all do much more for those Warframes utility wise and effect wise than what Slash Dash does for Excalibur now. With the way DE has been giving Excalibur Augments, they seem to want him be more geared to melee-style which can work. However, he needs a way to utilize those Melee Counters and melee damage buffs from those Augments to his advantage especially at higher end level fights.

 

Which is why I believed that a Slash Dash with low delay that rushes into an enemy with a slash attack so that Excalibur can follow that up instantly with a melee combo was the main idea behind this Slash Dash idea.

 

That makes sense. I'm still really fond of the current, simple "press 1 to cut through everything in the general direction of the camera", though; I find that it suits Excal's "Great-For-Beginners!" theme, which I think is more important than his "swordsman" theme. XD

 

Perhaps simply speeding up the animation (and providing invulnerability frames for most of the animation?) could act as a sort of middle ground? Still nice and simple for beginners, but more useful in late-game for advanced players.

Edited December 22, 2014 by SortaRandom

[FoxFX]

That's mostly because ranged DPS is so astronomically high in Warframe that any mobs who won't die to ranged DPS faster than they get to you are too powerful for you to fight toe-to-toe.  They need to get so strong that they mop the floor with you before you have a risk of being forced into melee combat.  And by then it's impossible to melee without a gimmick like Hysteria.  Even with all that, you still have many, many CC abilities across all frames that will nullify the slightest thought of melee combat.

 

The only reason I melee is because I like it.  If I wanted to grind as efficiently as possible, I'd use my guns and frames with a '4' ability that kills everything everywhere.

 

This is what we saw with Viver.  Once people had a reason to go nuts with grinding, they found the most efficient way to do it.  Warframe can still be heavily exploited like that...people just don't have a reason to.

Would you mind if DE found some way to modify Melee again to actually be up to par with Ranged DPS? Namely on the defensive side since one of the key issues with going melee is that its Blocking system suffers with the cost of Stamina?

[Thaumatos]

Would you mind if DE found some way to modify Melee again to actually be up to par with Ranged DPS? Namely on the defensive side since one of the key issues with going melee is that its Blocking system suffers with the cost of Stamina?

Honestly DE needs to rebalance their base stat system.  I think the way shields, hp, armor, and status effects work are long overdue for a tune-up.

 

They should change up the block system a little bit, but the biggest problem is the base stats.  Even with Valkyr's armor you're not going to get very far without Hysteria or Life Strike.

 

I have Life Strike on my weapon at all times.  It's an absolute must.  If it weren't for that band-aid, people would have actually seen a change to the base stats already (IMO).

[FoxFX]

That makes sense. I'm still really fond of the current, simple "press 1 to cut through everything in the general direction of the camera", though; I find that it suits Excal's "Great-For-Beginners!" theme, which I think is more important than his "swordsman" theme. XD

 

Perhaps simply speeding up the animation (and providing invulnerability frames for most of the animation?) could act as a sort of middle ground? Still nice and simple for beginners, but more useful in late-game for advanced players.

That is kinda what I have concluded for a while with Excalibur's skill set as well.

[FoxFX]

Honestly DE needs to rebalance their base stat system.  I think the way shields, hp, armor, and status effects work are long overdue for a tune-up.

 

They should change up the block system a little bit, but the biggest problem is the base stats.  Even with Valkyr's armor you're not going to get very far without Hysteria or Life Strike.

 

I have Life Strike on my weapon at all times.  It's an absolute must.  If it weren't for that band-aid, people would have actually seen a change to the base stats already (IMO).

Base stats as in Slash, Puncture, and Impact?

[FoxFX]

I can understand if the physical damages should be improved a bit by their effects especially the likes of Impact and Slash (since everyone has been on the crusade of getting Puncture damages for high-end fights in Void and 30+ survival/3+ Defense).

 

But back to suggestions for Excalibur passives that would work with the Augments and supposed playstyle DE wants for him to be: more melee-blade based.

[Burnthesteak87]

Why not a passive making his Abilities scaling with the Melee Counter?
Example, melee counter x2 > Radial Javelin and Slash Dash doing x2 their damage. Same for Super Jump height scaling with Power Strenght.
Melee counter x2 > Radial blind blinds for the double of its duration.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Burnthesteak87

[FoxFX]

Why not a passive making his Abilities scaling with the Melee Counter?

Example, melee counter x2 > Radial Javelin and Slash Dash doing x2 their damage. Same for Super Jump height scaling with Power Strenght.

Melee counter x2 > Radial blind blinds for the double of its duration.

That alone would be too much even as a passive.

 

In the way I see it, [DE] wants Warframe abilities to be more about utility than overpowered damage. Abilities in Warframe are mostly there to make it easier for you and other players to take out enemies with other attacks including your Guns and Melee weapons.

 

With the design of Excalibur's Augments, Excalibur has some potential to be a high damaging Melee Warframe, but the execution and the viability of those Augments needs to be reinforced more.

 

There is also the way [DE] has done Mesa's Passives to involve only the weapons she uses. If Excalibur would receive passives, it would be based on the weapons he uses as well. In this case, melee weapons like Swords, Katanas, and Glaives.

[FoxFX]

I'd like for you guys to see the review of Excalibur's Augment Surging Dash from a YouTube user Quiette Shy:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOeXTy0P8WA

 

The Melee Combo Counter timer as we can see ends way too fast to utilize Excalibur's Slash Dash augments or any type of melee combat for that matter.

 

I'd like to suggest a change tot he combo counter system in another thread and to discuss on possible changes that can be made for it.

[FoxFX]

Merry Christmas, Community of Warframe.

 

On Topic: After the video I have posted (and will add to the OP), any additional thoughts based on Excalibur and my proposed ideas for Passives and Slash Dash?

[Guziol]

Really nice ideas. And I love passives, yours are esspecially nice. "combo" counter also needs work but a frame having additional bonuses attached to that, i dig it.

[FoxFX]

Really nice ideas. And I love passives, yours are esspecially nice. "combo" counter also needs work but a frame having additional bonuses attached to that, i dig it.

I've also added another thread to discuss the possibility of changing the Combo Counter system to make it more convenient for all Warframes:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/373974-rethoughts-on-melee-20-combo-counter-system/#entry4128805

[FoxFX]

Really nice ideas. And I love passives, yours are esspecially nice. "combo" counter also needs work but a frame having additional bonuses attached to that, i dig it.

Thank you for the comments. I kinda hope others get to read into this and see what most of us see is an issue with Excalibur and the Augments he has.

[FoxFX]

Last bump, hoping for some comments to keep this thread alive a bit

[(PSN)SilverKarasu]

I like the the idea for passives to be the answer to Excalibur being the Sword Frame. Is need some way to reward that play.

 

But I think he needs a defensive passive either instead or with it. One of the main drawbacks to Melee Excalibur is that Melee is a very vulnerable play style for him. He's not tanky at all. Radial Blind is decent but in a survival there are enemies coming in constantly and Radial blind no longer goes through terrain. So his only defensive skill is ineffective against a constantly renewing enemy presence. And the skill isn't persistent either. So spamming the skill as new enemies fill in is the only answer, and he's not built as a caster able to do that.

 

One of his passives needs to be something that increases his survive-ability while using a sword/glaive/nikana.

[FoxFX]

I like the the idea for passives to be the answer to Excalibur being the Sword Frame. Is need some way to reward that play.

 

But I think he needs a defensive passive either instead or with it. One of the main drawbacks to Melee Excalibur is that Melee is a very vulnerable play style for him. He's not tanky at all. Radial Blind is decent but in a survival there are enemies coming in constantly and Radial blind no longer goes through terrain. So his only defensive skill is ineffective against a constantly renewing enemy presence. And the skill isn't persistent either. So spamming the skill as new enemies fill in is the only answer, and he's not built as a caster able to do that.

 

One of his passives needs to be something that increases his survive-ability while using a sword/glaive/nikana.

 

You mean like equipping a sword/glaive/nikana gives Excalibur a 30% reduced damage defense deal?

[(PSN)SilverKarasu]

You mean like equipping a sword/glaive/nikana gives Excalibur a 30% reduced damage defense deal?

 

Yea basically. When you have a gun your at a distance, you have quite a range of view, you can use cover, and you have the room to use your skills.

 

When your melee'ing your right in the middle of everything especially in a survival mission. The second you stop parrying, assuming your lucky enough to have everything in front of you, your doing nothing but taking bullets to the face. Even Casting radial blind leaves you vulnerable during the cast and in T4 survival past 20-25min you die while you cast it because you cant use it behind cover or a wall anymore. And all enemies that are still entering the room haven't been effected. 

[FoxFX]

Yea basically. When you have a gun your at a distance, you have quite a range of view, you can use cover, and you have the room to use your skills.

 

When your melee'ing your right in the middle of everything especially in a survival mission. The second you stop parrying, assuming your lucky enough to have everything in front of you, your doing nothing but taking bullets to the face. Even Casting radial blind leaves you vulnerable during the cast and in T4 survival past 20-25min you die while you cast it because you cant use it behind cover or a wall anymore. And all enemies that are still entering the room haven't been effected. 

That might be asking a bit too much as far as passives go. I dunno.

[(PSN)SilverKarasu]

That might be asking a bit too much as far as passives go. I dunno.

 

I thought really hard about an Excalibur rework and posted it in the large Excalibur thread in Warframes & abilities. There I gave my idea for how the new Excalibur could work as well as the passive. Check it out ^^

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/230673-excalibur-20-post-u15-review-and-feedback-now-with-surging-dash-and-passives/page-18#entry4162682

Edited January 2, 2015 by (PS4)SilverKarasu

[FoxFX]

I thought really hard about an Excalibur rework and posted it in the large Excalibur thread in Warframes & abilities. There I gave my idea for how the new Excalibur could work as well as the passive. Check it out ^^

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/230673-excalibur-20-post-u15-review-and-feedback-now-with-surging-dash-and-passives/page-18#entry4162682

I've seen what you've wrote down and it seam like a good idea, though I feel Excalibur shouldn't be too tanky especially with Mods like Natural Talent and Life Strike available.

 

Perhaps an Augment for Radial Blind that gives Excalibur's melee weapon a luster-like appearance that can blind nearby enemies that face him for additional duration as long as Excalibur shifts to weapon mode.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

Noooooo. This ability is great for mobility.

[(PSN)SilverKarasu]

I've seen what you've wrote down and it seam like a good idea, though I feel Excalibur shouldn't be too tanky especially with Mods like Natural Talent and Life Strike available.

 

Perhaps an Augment for Radial Blind that gives Excalibur's melee weapon a luster-like appearance that can blind nearby enemies that face him for additional duration as long as Excalibur shifts to weapon mode.

 

Understandable. Too tanky is an issue. But considering what he's supposed to be doing, finding where to draw the line is hard.

 

The only option I can see is for whatever survive-ability he get's to be tied directly to having a Sword full-equiped. That way it can't be abused for the safer gun play.

 

But he does need his tanky somehow. For him to melee it's just necessary.

[FoxFX]

Understandable. Too tanky is an issue. But considering what he's supposed to be doing, finding where to draw the line is hard.

 

The only option I can see is for whatever survive-ability he get's to be tied directly to having a Sword full-equiped. That way it can't be abused for the safer gun play.

 

But he does need his tanky somehow. For him to melee it's just necessary.

 

I'd say having the agility Excalibur has in comparison to the other melee-oriented Warframes we have so far (like Valkyr and somewhat Saryn for example) would suffice as defensive capabilities.

 

There has to be a change to the blocking system.

[(PSN)SilverKarasu]

Agility? Excalibur? He's pretty slow if you ask me... Unless your version of agility is being used differently.