Frost Feedback / Discussion

[AlphaHorseman]

I, personally, want to see some changes as well.  However, since Frost are added to the PvP Roster I assume DE feel he is balanced enough.  Although we have a separate pvpve thing, changing the core skill WILL AFFECT both.

 

Ex: In pve Freeze have bigger AOE fire in small ice shards blah blah blah, but in PvP it is same as it is right now.

Balances to PvP do not affect PvE, or so DE has claimed. His PvE aspects are clearly lacking, and require much work. 

[LunarFlower]

I've been coming up with more ideas! :p They are slightly detailed. 

 

1.  Freeze  Ice Punch(more creative names are welcome) -  Frost must be in Melee range to use Ice Punch, Ice Punch knocks the enemy backwards and deals X cold damage.  Enemy will also have reduced shield by X 

Augment Ideas; 1) Gives Frost the ability to 'Gap Close' with Ice Punch. He will do a cool jump to get into range. 2) Ice Punch becomes a missile that can be used from range and instead slows the enemy's movement and attack speed for X time

 

2. Ice Wave; Knocks down enemies that are directly hit by the wave. Enemies hit directly by the wave take X damage and have X reduced shields. They also have X movement speed slow.  Enemies that are just outside of the radius will be slowed.  ( To balance it out, Ice Wave will have a duration that prevents it from being spammed and perhaps the wave itself will have a slower movement speed than the current Ice Wave. Or the stun duration will be small. Balancing will take time. )

I don't have any augment Ideas for this.

 

3. Snow Globe; SnowGlobe is no longer based on duration. Frost's health, Power Strength and Armour will contribute to its total hitpoints( It's hard for me to go into numerical specifics here, I am not a mathematical genius ) Snowglobe will be invulnerable for 4 seconds and during that time any damage that would be dealt to it gets added to its health pool instead.  Snowglobe now has visual indicator for it's total hitpoints remaining( Cracks along the globe) It is also has surrounding ice spikes protruding from the ground. These Ice Spikes deal a small amount of damage to any enemy that attempts to enter the globe. The Ice Spikes will actually deal Puncture damage instead of Cold.  Enemies that are inside the globe will be have their movement and attack speed slowed for X as well as take constant X cold damage every second that they are inside.   

(If this is too strong to have additionally, perhaps it could be an augment;) Additionally, upon being destroyed the snowglobe will 'explode' sending broken shards of glass out in a wide radius, dealing X cold and puncture damage to all enemies within the radius of the explosion. They will be knocked down. 

4. Avalanche Hailstorm;  Frost summons a Hailstorm. Hailstorm covers a wide radius and will slow all enemies within it. Hail will fall at random and deal X cold damage to enemies as well as knock them down. Enemies will also take X cold damage every second that they are inside the Hailstorm.  Hailstorm's effects does not have any effect on anything within SnowGlobe. 

Please let me know what you think of these ideas : ) constructive criticism please. ^^ 

 

[GhostMelody]

IMO he's in a worse state than Nekros. Ive only ever seen a Frost use SG. I tried him at my friends house and it turns out he isn't as great as I hoped. I thought he'd be CC, Slow with some Damage over time but... nah.

+1

nekros is NOT in a bad state

OPEN YO EYES PEOPLE

Other than that though, I wanna see frost get a bit of a buff too

[GhostMelody]

This is how frost prime should look

Help us keep this thread and image alive :)

#Frostneedslove

Love it

[Crazed_the_Lost]

I'd imagine Frost is way far down on their list of things to tweak.

He's a good frame as it is and viable in any game type and any level. Even T4s are no big deal unless you are going into the more extreme rounds in which case it's supposed to be difficult.

I do agree with more visual effects to show Snow globe heath. That is clever.

I bet he'll get a passive that will help him too when the Devs roll those out for already existant Frames. If they do that is, I could see them only giving new Frames those until further down the road.

[(XBOX)CaptainRemo]

DE, Frost needs a little love, Freeze needs to have a more useful purpose or a better technical design so it can be useful in more situations. Example:

 

Freeze: Frost emits a cone of Freezing air capable (25% base) of freezing enemies and doing x damage per second.

 

Ice Wave is fine in my eyes, the mod gives it the ability to be a slow which is nice.

 

Snow Globe should either stop splash damage from entering the globe OR get a buff to health, I don't think that would be OP and it would make it more reliable in higher levels. As it is now, I prefer the splash fix, too many times I find my teammate dieing in my globe cause the damn napalm guy's aoe. Also the health thing, its been touched upon several times here.

 

Avalanche is in interesting creature, I think either a small buff to damage OR a more reliable CC. It cost 100 energy at base which is a lot and unfortunately its not a very good "OH S#&$!"  button which I think it should be.

 

With all this said I have a Frost lvl 30 who is pretty good, but I don't have the mods that make him god mode so I can speak to that end. But, from my eperiences Frost is by no means a bad frame, he's great, he just needs some tweaks to make him a strong contender for the tank spot in a party.

 

Last but not least, DE, I'd rather you leave him the way he is then buff the S#&$ out of him. I said this in another post and I still believe that we don't need 4 Frosts on a team. Its ok if other frames do certain things better than Frost, it would be nice if he was the "expert" at saving a players &#! when things get crazy or being able to bail the team out of some S#&$ty situations like a tank should. BUT I can live with him the way he is.

 

Thanks for the amazing game! I play on the Xbone and I am amazed at how well put together this game is! Keep it up!

[Ragnarlee_Prime]

I've been coming up with more ideas! :p They are slightly detailed.

1.Freeze Ice Punch(more creative names are welcome) - Frost must be in Melee range to use Ice Punch, Ice Punch knocks the enemy backwards and deals X cold damage. Enemy will also have reduced shield by X

Augment Ideas; 1) Gives Frost the ability to 'Gap Close' with Ice Punch. He will do a cool jump to get into range. 2) Ice Punch becomes a missile that can be used from range and instead slows the enemy's movement and attack speed for X time

Horry S#!7!!! This sounds awesome dude. If this would be lock on, it would fix the issue of ‘Freeze’ being unreliable when aiming and if it wasn’t a lock on ability it would give FROST some mobility.(By lock on I mean the mechanics behind ‘soul punch’ on NEKROS) Perhaps it could be(GOD FORBID) Another charge ability like ‘Slash dash’ or ‘rhino charge’, allowing FROST freedom of movement. I would not at all be opposed to this!

3. Snow Globe; SnowGlobe is no longer based on duration. Frost's health, Power Strength and Armour will contribute to its total hitpoints( It's hard for me to go into numerical specifics here, I am not a mathematical genius ) Snowglobe will be invulnerable for 4 seconds and during that time any damage that would be dealt to it gets added to its health pool instead. Snowglobe now has visual indicator for it's total hitpoints remaining( Cracks along the globe) It is also has surrounding ice spikes protruding from the ground. These Ice Spikes deal a small amount of damage to any enemy that attempts to enter the globe. The Ice Spikes will actually deal Puncture damage instead of Cold. Enemies that are inside the globe will be have their movement and attack speed slowed for X as well as take constant X cold damage every second that they are inside.

(If this is too strong to have additionally, perhaps it could be an augment;) Additionally, upon being destroyed the snowglobe will 'explode' sending broken shards of glass out in a wide radius, dealing X cold and puncture damage to all enemies within the radius of the explosion. They will be knocked down.

I think the spikes and explosion AND knockdown are too much. Maybe as separate augments, like Coldest Kingdom Surrounds FROST’s snowglobe with spikes that do a set percent of the SG’s armor as damage.

4. AvalancheHailstorm Frost summons a Hailstorm. Hailstorm covers a wide radius and will slow all enemies within it. Hail will fall at random and deal X cold damage to enemies as well as knock them down. Enemies will also take X cold damage every second that they are inside the Hailstorm. Hailstorm's effects does not have any effect on anything within SnowGlobe.

I really like this idea, but I think that it is too much like Hydroids already existing ability. And I think that if FROST had an ability like that, it would be a crime to not allow him to cover his snowglobe with it. Actually what would be a real cool ability would be an augment form SnowGlobe that changes the effects of other Frames abilities inside the effect left over from Avalanche.

Extreme Environment – Certain Frames’ abilities are changed when cast inside FROST’s Snow Globe. (Hydroids hailstorm would become icicles that dish out cold procs.

[AlphaHorseman]

I would hope that DE looks at this thread. There are many ideas to which they can draw much needed Buffs for Frost. Has anyone messaged Grineeer (Steve) with this thread? He is the one that deals with WarFrame balancing in PvE, after all.

[LunarFlower]

Horry S#!7!!! This sounds awesome dude. If this would be lock on, it would fix the issue of ‘Freeze’ being unreliable when aiming and if it wasn’t a lock on ability it would give FROST some mobility.(By lock on I mean the mechanics behind ‘soul punch’ on NEKROS) Perhaps it could be(GOD FORBID) Another charge ability like ‘Slash dash’ or ‘rhino charge’, allowing FROST freedom of movement. I would not at all be opposed to this!

I think the spikes and explosion AND knockdown are too much. Maybe as separate augments, like Coldest Kingdom Surrounds FROST’s snowglobe with spikes that do a set percent of the SG’s armor as damage.

I really like this idea, but I think that it is too much like Hydroids already existing ability. And I think that if FROST had an ability like that, it would be a crime to not allow him to cover his snowglobe with it. Actually what would be a real cool ability would be an augment form SnowGlobe that changes the effects of other Frames abilities inside the effect left over from Avalanche.

Extreme Environment – Certain Frames’ abilities are changed when cast inside FROST’s Snow Globe. (Hydroids hailstorm would become icicles that dish out cold procs.

 

Thanks for the feedback and I like your ideas too! Perhaps the spikes surrounding the globe would be removed if it was augmented?:3 

[Hueminator]

Balances to PvP do not affect PvE, or so DE has claimed. His PvE aspects are clearly lacking, and require much work. 

So far I only see DE tweaking number in pvp, I haven't seen any major core mechanic changes for skill.  As you say, Frost PvE aspect does need improvement and possibly subject to overhaul (as many people suggested).  Therefore, I don't think you would see Frost where he have a major overhauled skill for pve and his pvp version still using the old skill.

 

Beside, I think any radical changes to the skill probably come in the form of an augment.

 

Edit: we'll see how DE handle PvP 2.0

Edited March 11, 2015 by Hueminator

[AlphaHorseman]

So far I only see DE tweaking number in pvp, I haven't seen any major core mechanic changes for skill.  As you say, Frost PvE aspect does need improvement and possibly subject to overhaul (as many people suggested).  Therefore, I don't think you would see Frost where he have a major overhauled skill for pve and his pvp version still using the old skill.

 

Beside, I think any radical changes to the skill probably come in the form of an augment.

 

Edit: we'll see how DE handle PvP 2.0

To clarify, DE has stated that any balancing in PvP isn't going to affect PvE. However, changing the makeup of a Frame's powers affects both, so as such any changes DE does make to Frost's powers is going to affect both, not just one.

 

No, no augments to patch up powers. That should NEVER be the case.

 

I'd like you to read this thread:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/377363-augments-should-never-fix-powers-this-is-what-augments-should-be-trollbans-bounce-isnt-just-for-trolling-anymore/#entry4160844

[Hueminator]

To clarify, DE has stated that any balancing in PvP isn't going to affect PvE. However, changing the makeup of a Frame's powers affects both, so as such any changes DE does make to Frost's powers is going to affect both, not just one.

 

No, no augments to patch up powers. That should NEVER be the case.

 

I'd like you to read this thread:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/377363-augments-should-never-fix-powers-this-is-what-augments-should-be-trollbans-bounce-isnt-just-for-trolling-anymore/#entry4160844

Hence adding Frost to the PvP roster probably mean that we won't see any major overhaul of his skills, only tweaking in numbers.  

 

I also DO agree with augment shouldn't patch up power.  Just saying that it could be a path that DE will use.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Hueminator

[AlphaHorseman]

Hence adding Frost to the PvP roster probably mean that we won't see any major overhaul of his skills, only tweaking in numbers.  

 

I also DO agree with augment shouldn't patch up power.  Just saying that it could be a path that DE will use.

Honestly I hope they don't use augments as patch ups. His skills need some tweaks, and even if he is on the roster for PvP balancing, doesn't mean he can't get some fixes as well. Look at League of Legends, for example. They do balance passes on their Champions even after deployment. I hope that they do fix him up soon though.

Edited March 11, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[Hueminator]

I think DE priority is to add more Warframe to the roster.  I guess those warframe with recent changes (nekros and ember) probably join the roster soon.

[Suthurn]

not trying to rain on your parade, but really, you could replace frost with about half the frames in the game.

 

or you could go on rants about how 3/4 the weapons are pretty much completely garbage...

 

ive been playing this game for quite a while now. you either use what they deem the good things or you are worse than you could be, the end. 

[AlphaHorseman]

not trying to rain on your parade, but really, you could replace frost with about half the frames in the game.

 

or you could go on rants about how 3/4 the weapons are pretty much completely garbage...

 

ive been playing this game for quite a while now. you either use what they deem the good things or you are worse than you could be, the end. 

The difference between the Frames and the Weapons comes from the fact that the weapons are to be tiered, as DE had stated in a previous Devstream. The WarFrames, however, are all supposed to be viable throughout content, each and every one. Sure, there may be some that are better at one task than others, but all of them are to be on par with one another in viability, and thus each Frame should have versatility in its powers, and scale ability in each. Frost is a prime example of a Frame that does not have this.

[LunarFlower]

I made a GIF for Frost! 

 

 

 

[Autongnosis]

To be honest Frost just needs two things:

- more CC instead of damage

- a more user friendly Globe.

For the first point, there are a bunch of thingsthat can be done. Slowing is one. Knockdown (icy winds) is another. Armour or damage reduction on enemies (think of freeze damage on metals for instance). Freezing. Imho his kit should be a bit more diverse, like:

- a dash like skill that maybe knocks down (Icy Gale maybe? Pushes you forward and pushes awaty enemies on the path dealing moderate cold damage)

- an area skill that slows (Ice Wave is fine but it SHOULD SLOW WITHOUTH AUGMENT. Augment might make it 3/4 homing stripes seeking enemies to freeze them)

- the globe i'll deal with later

- an area CC/debuff skill (see my proppsal for Hailstorm/Absolute Zero earlier

For the globe, there should be a way for Frost to know when the globe goes down. Not because of duration but because of health. So either a mechanics change or a UI change. Other than that, let's face it, the Globe is pretty fine

[Ragnarlee_Prime]

- a dash like skill that maybe knocks down (Icy Gale maybe? Pushes you forward and pushes awaty enemies on the path dealing moderate cold damage)

Good god, another dash ability. In another post someone suggested an ability that was like a lock on jumping punch for FROST.

Blitzing Blizzard – Frost jumps to the selected target freezing them from afar and closing the distance with a jumping haymaker, to shatter his foe from the icy prison, sending them into a whole new world of hurt.

I think that this ability would be much better suited to frost than just a lame point and click adventure ability that hits only half the time. Maybe some augments allow him to knockdown all enemies in the path in between his target and the flying FROST.

- an area skill that slows (Ice Wave is fine but it SHOULD SLOW WITHOUTH AUGMENT. Augment might make it 3/4 homing stripes seeking enemies to freeze them)

I agree completely that Ice Wave should slow without an augment. I think the augment should give it puncture procs.

- an area CC/debuff skill (see my proppsal for Hailstorm/Absolute Zero earlier

I Think that FROST’s avalanche should just inflict cold procs upon those affected instead of the Grinner just resuming the bulletstorm like nothing happened.

For the globe, there should be a way for Frost to know when the globe goes down. Not because of duration but because of health. So either a mechanics change or a UI change. Other than that, let's face it, the Globe is pretty fine

I really want FROST’s UI to have its’ health displayed, or even better, His SnowGlobe displayed under the other player’s health. But I REALLY want either the timer, or health removed. From what I understand RHINO’s iron skin dosen’t have a timer (Please correct if I’m wrong RHINOs, if it does have a timer it shouldn’t). Edited March 12, 2015 by Dr.Schanbel

[Dancli]

I made a GIF for Frost! 

 

 

And what about this?

 

[tris1]

And what about this?

 

the only thing that comes to mind from this is combined ability combinations

[AlphaHorseman]

I made a GIF for Frost! 

 

 

And what about this?

 

These Rock!

 

If only Freeze could do something like that

[XxMAGGOTxX]

EVERYBODY! I have great news. I messaged Grineeer with this thread explaining that I as well the community feel he has been lackluster. He said that after update 16 is out the door, he will go back to looking at frames and stuff, and he also thanked me for pointing him to a source of feedback.

 

We are getting closer and closer everyday to a buffed Frost. Maybe I shouldn't have been so pessimistic LOL.

 

#FrostNeedsLove

[Norune]

About time others noticed that Frost needs to be reworked, please do something DE

[(PSN)kjcenco]

EVERYBODY! I have great news. I messaged Grineeer with this thread explaining that I as well the community feel he has been lackluster. He said that after update 16 is out the door, he will go back to looking at frames and stuff, and he also thanked me for pointing him to a source of feedback.

 

We are getting closer and closer everyday to a buffed Frost. Maybe I shouldn't have been so pessimistic LOL.

 

#FrostNeedsLove

Good to hear that our concerns and ideas for Frost are now being acknowledged by the devs.