Do Primes Make Standard Frames Obselete? Should Primes Have A Drawback?

[EetNotErn]

This is a loot game, friend. Time has > skill in this genre since the very beginning.

Mind you, I'm not sure how "skill" is supposed to apply here, considering how simple acquiring non-prime frames is.

 

 

 

Let's compare farming for Rhino to farming for Rhino Prime, shall we?

 

Rhino requires you to go kill Jackal three times or more. Jackal is a pretty easy boss on a low level planet. He has only 3 part drops and the whole mission can be speedrun so you can literally start cooking Rhino within an hour.

 

Rhino Prime, meanwhile requires you to do, minimum:

 

20 waves T1D for systems, or spamming T2E keys for the same. (Because the T2E drop tables have keys, cores, orokin cells, as well as several 

other prime components and you only get one reward per mission.)

T1 Mobile for the helmet, or a T2 Mobile for the same. (Again, same issue with T2E - one reward per mission in a drop table that's highly diluted.)

T3E for the BP itself or T4E for the same. (Same issue here, but at least T4E keys are limitless if you're a pal with the Veil or friends with someone who is.)

20 minutes of T3S for the chassis, or 15 minutes of T4S for the same. (T4S keys are limitless for Arbiter-friends, but you're still talking 15 minutes for a chance at what you want, and not a particularly great chance either.)

 

We're talking about a much greater investment of time here, especially since you have to farm up the keys too.

 

So yeah, there's a tremendous disparity here between acquiring Rhino and acquiring Rhino Prime. That you don't recognize it really takes your argument's credibility out back and stabs it in the gut with a skana.

 

 

 

 

Trade for prime frames requires plat and is far from a sure thing due to the vagaries of trade chat, so we're not discussing it. Yeah a wallet warrior can just buy a bunch of plat and buy frames outright, but that's something that applies to all frames and weapons.

 

Also, outside of Hydroid and Mesa, there are no "normal" frames harder to acquire than primes. Mirage is easy to get and has basically no RNG involved at all. Limbo is easy to get so long as you have a halfway decent archwing loadout and has minimal RNG. Nekros is tremendously easy to acquire since ODA keys just need coordinates that drop like candy in any other derelict mission, and if you explore in the ODA mission itself you'll usually make back the 5 coords you needed

 

 

And your refusal to acknowledge that trading for prime frames IS a valid point of discussion shows how biased you are and that you're not really here for discussion. You even say that all frames and weapons can be bought outright, so should the argument that harder to acquire means more power really stand here? Hell, people are asking for mastery ranks to be applied to weapons such as Boltor Prime because it can be bought so easily. So, no you do NOT get to dismiss the fact that primes can be bought just because YOU can't counter this point. Fact is, that one can buy prime frames and weapons with no in game effort so the argument that "hard to acquire should equal to more power" does not hold water. This would have had merit before trading was put into the game but no longer.

 

I can agree that regular Rhino is relatively easier to get than Rhino Prime, but RP isn't that much harder to get anyway, especially for the experienced players who are doing nothing but playing voids anyway. Playing in the voids is far more rewarding and profitable than playing on the planets farming for  regular frames. Also, you seem to have ignored my point that there are regular frames that are harder to get than most prime frames or at the very least the same amount of grind. But you chose the most favorable scenario to back up your argument and pretended that it applies to all frames and prime frames.

 

And you forgot about Vauban. So there's at least 3 frames that are at least as hard to get as prime frames. And I would say Nekros is as easy as getting a Rhino Prime or Frost Prime. I have had enough parts to make 7 copies of them. I mean if you're going to argue that Nekros is super easy due to doing a lot of derelict missions then so are those 2 prime frames due to doing a lot of voids missions.

Edited December 29, 2014 by EetNotErn

[MurderHoboDinosaur]

It makes sense. Usually the original is better than any copies of itself.

 

That's why when people face their Doppelganger, they're almost always guaranteed to beat them.

 

Still, I do somewhat dislike that there's basically no reasons to use non-Prime Warframes aside for Mastery points.

Not everyone is an Uber Grinder/Money Thrower. A regular frame can be taken for those who can't or won't get Primes. After all not all players even have one prime.

[TwiceDead]

I don't see why Primes exist. 

It should just have been a frame/weapon skin, not an entire thing of it's own.

All we do now is grind the same content twice for a negligible stat-boost, and somehow everybody praises this practice.

 

"Wohoo new prime, now I've gotta grind even more to play something I already played except now I have gold trims." 

 

Put whoever's working on the prime designs to work on new weapon/frame designs and we could've seen more interesting content rather than gold-trimmed re-releases of the old stuff. 

[EetNotErn]

I don't see why Primes exist. 

It should just have been a frame/weapon skin, not an entire thing of it's own.

All we do now is grind the same content twice for a negligible stat-boost, and somehow everybody praises this practice.

 

"Wohoo new prime, now I've gotta grind even more to play something I already played except now I have gold trims." 

 

Put whoever's working on the prime designs to work on new weapon/frame designs and we could've seen more interesting content rather than gold-trimmed re-releases of the old stuff. 

 

Exactly. Prime frames should have been cosmetic bling only. But it's too late now.

[Toom1275]

Only drawback to getting a prime is having to buy an extra frame slot to hold it. I try to use Primes in the void/derelicts, and use the non-prime counterparts for normal missions. I even end up having different mod loadouts on them. I just treat them as a separate tool that happens to have similar uses to the non-prime.

[Azawarau]

Id prefer direct upgrade

 

Any aesthetic issues with primes can be easily reslved

[Jeetza]

If you had to do a relatively minor amount of farming to investigate a different playstyle for your Saryn that wasn't prime related to see if you liked it of course you would do it.

I said a lot of farming, NOT a minor amount. And that "Another Saryn" was just another way for me to say Prime.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

I said a lot of farming, NOT a minor amount. And that "Another Saryn" was just another way for me to say Prime.

I said *relatively* minor as in farming Saryn A and "hypothetical" Saryn variant B (B hypothetically gives you access to a few "B only" MODS, Base stat changes equally weighed out, and aesthetics that alter the frame without the Prime Buff) are equally hard but Saryn Prime is still much harder to acquire. That's what I would love to see, and that is what I meant.

You are starting to see this with Syndicates, but interpreting syndicate "frame preference" with game mechanics that are actually an exclusionary/inclusionary buff bias was the wrong thing to do.

Edited December 30, 2014 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Makya]

And your refusal to acknowledge that trading for prime frames IS a valid point of discussion shows how biased you are and that you're not really here for discussion.

Trading doesn't show how Primes are easier to gain at all. It just means someone else did the work, not that the work didn't happen.

 

If you want to use Plat as a a 'grind bypass' then why not touch on how the person got plat? What it means to have a income, the costs of said income expense and the work to have the spare income to buy plat.. also at what plat ratio compared to the frame's cost. Buying with Plat simply means you grinded IRL and used IRL resource to get In Game loots.. With that line of thought established, compare the work of getting the money for the plat and arranging the purchase and a proper buyer to getting the frame.

 

Also please remember, you can buy normal frames as well from the market, plat expense is plat experience. Doesn't it then mean normal frames are always easier to buy than primes as they are buy on demand, as you buy them with a slot and potato in a few clicks, compared to buying them separate and trying to find someone to trade you the prime you want, all the pieces 'for a reasonable price' in your timezone?

[Seanjuju]

Frames should have an evolution system and I think primes should just have a higher starting point but the same end-point

[Makya]

Frames should have an evolution system and I think primes should just have a higher starting point but the same end-point

You mean warp frames similar to Vor's pistol?