Warframe Powers In A Skill Tree...yes Please

[Effusion-]

What about passives instead of active abilities?

Then you end up with pretty much what we have right now, where people sacrifice the actives they don't use and just take more passive mods.

[Heartsatyr]

^^^^^^

 

Exactly

Well I mean as much as people want to say "OMG THIS ISN'T A STUPID MMO GO BACK TO WoW NOOB!!!!!! >:(" There are RPG elements within the game that hold true to the original system. It's not like people are complaining, "DON'T LABEL TRINITY AS A SUPPORT, SHE CAN BE WHATEVER SHE WANTS TO BE." Because that would be silly. With her skill set, she can't fill any other role.

[2ply]

ahah I remember you from that other thread. I agree that the warframe powers should not be slotted into the same 30/60 point pool we have for enhancing our frames. I mean those powers are supposed to be integral to the frame we are using. With my Excalibur I don't even use my powers except as a "oh god gonna die getting stunlocked" button which is a shame (and a different issue). What's an even bigger travesty is I've left one of them not even slotted in, not because it won't be useful sometimes but because I'd rather increase my warframes health and armour. That seems completely &#! backwards. These powers are as I'm given to understand inherent abilities of each frame not something you go "eeeeh but this is better".

 

A skill tree, I disagree with. I think as cool as it potentially be it just over complicates it. 4 exclusive 'free' slots for powers is all I'd like to see. Or a least a different pool for frame special abilities than for frame upgrades.

 

I respect that, and I will accept your solution anyday. I just wanted to voice what I thought would be something extra cool for us to do to make each players unique in his/her abilities.

[Heartsatyr]

Then you end up with pretty much what we have right now, where people sacrifice the actives they don't use and just take more passive mods.

Well with a passive tree, I'm thinking of an entirely different system from your normal 30/60 mod system. Like a passive tree that allows you to enhance your warframe in different ways from your mod slots.

[2ply]

Well I mean as much as people want to say "OMG THIS ISN'T A STUPID MMO GO BACK TO WoW NOOB!!!!!! >:(" There are RPG elements within the game that hold true to the original system. It's not like people are complaining, "DON'T LABEL TRINITY AS A SUPPORT, SHE CAN BE WHATEVER SHE WANTS TO BE." Because that would be silly. With her skill set, she can't fill any other role.

As much as they have tried to dismiss the holy trinity...TANK/DAMGE/HEAL  they cannot...its the stick and stones of all MMO RPG type games, though many have totally changed it like how GW2 did...its underlying reality is still present.

Edited April 30, 2013 by 2ply

[2ply]

Yeah and its ok to have no subclasses through Talent Trees for them, I don't need trinity to heal-tank-off-dps-CC.

 

Want to play a different class, get a different warframe.

 

But you said there were no classes in warframe...grrr you are confusing me now dude.

[Mietz]

But you said there were no classes in warframe...grrr you are confusing me now dude.

 

What i said the game doesnt need classes in context to giving them to warframe characters themselves through talent trees, broguymatedudebuddy.

 

Warframes already are "classes".

Edited April 30, 2013 by Mietz

[Heartsatyr]

What i said the game doesnt need classes in context to giving them to warframe characters themselves, broguymatedudebuddyguy.

 

Warframes already are "classes".

So then what's the issue with wanting a warframe to perform a bit differently?

[2ply]

What i said the game doesnt need classes in context to giving them to warframe characters themselves, broguymatedudebuddyguy.

 

Warframes already are "classes".

 

*gives Miets some water and a chill pill*

 

I gotcha man..the warframes are classes..so they don't need to be given classes because they are characters themselves who fill a role like class, such as tank, healer, DPS, CC

[Mietz]

So then what's the issue with wanting a warframe to perform a bit differently?

 

What do you mean?

 

Healing through a different skillset? Making trinity into DPS?

 

What exactly is it?

 

If you are talking about healing through a different skillset, thats already coming, there will be more frame specific power mods, so yeah, no skill talent tree needed.

[Drasiel]

I respect that, and I will accept your solution anyday. I just wanted to voice what I thought would be something extra cool for us to do to make each players unique in his/her abilities.

 

I can understand that heck I love things that can add more diversity, but I think we already have a huge potential for unique play style in the game. Especially if more frame specific powers are coming.

 

The things that truly make our warframes unique are just not being utilised well so people don't see it. The fact that people don't always slot their frames abilities in because the passives are often more appealing is one problem. But the other is is the energy system. It makes people hoard powers instead of using them. Except for my buddy Vex, he uses powers like they are going out of style... but he's kinda odd.

[Effusion-]

But the other is is the energy system. It makes people hoard powers instead of using them. Except for my buddy Vex, he uses powers like they are going out of style... but he's kinda odd.

Imo this is the key issue.  If we had an energy system that encouraged the use of all your powers then having a second mod pool for abilities, or a skill tree for them, would make more sense to me.

[2ply]

I can understand that heck I love things that can add more diversity, but I think we already have a huge potential for unique play style in the game. Especially if more frame specific powers are coming.

 

The things that truly make our warframes unique are just not being utilised well so people don't see it. The fact that people don't always slot their frames abilities in because the passives are often more appealing is one problem. But the other is is the energy system. It makes people hoard powers instead of using them. Except for my buddy Vex, he uses powers like they are going out of style... but he's kinda odd.

 

I'm actually pretty lucky to have started playing so early in the Open Beta, I was able to get my hands on many FLOW cards and Streamlines, that with a group of people with energy syphon on allows me to use my powers just about as often as I would like or need to.

 

I still believe that we need to have more capacity room for other mods aside from the basic ones we use..although there is always a need for balance I think it would be nice to see an increased enemy difficulty and with that the ability to have more of the survival and utility cards equiped with enough capacity to equip all of the survival utility cards, such as Vitality, Redirection, Quick Rest, Steel Fiber and the others I can't think of. I don't mean to have every mod card equiped...but rather to have more options as to what we can equip without running out of room.

 

To be able to have all the utilities on your warframe would still require some give and take in each individual level of these cards, it would be completely out of control if all the cards could be maxed out..kinda pointless for that really. As it is...you must choose...more shield...or more health...steel fiber or faster stamina regen..you can't really say I want a little of everything on my warframe..just more of this and less of that..

 

And this is because there is just not enough capactiy with the warframe power cards in the same basket as the utility cards.

 

But without a massive difficulty increase..I see no need for change before that.

Edited April 30, 2013 by 2ply

[Nuko_Miko]

I did mention that in the post..please read it fully you might say HOT DAMN this is a GREAT IDEA...I'm so glad I can read!

lol sorry xD

It is 11 pm atm and that post was too long to read xD

[2ply]

lol sorry xD

It is 11 pm atm and that post was too long to read xD

 

It's all good man,

 

I make some long posts to avoid trying to defend myself in responses to the following misinterpreted flaming responses that will surely come if you fail to draw everyone a 100 point diagram of your idea in words.

[Drasiel]

I'm actually pretty lucky to have started playing so early in the Open Beta, I was able to get my hands on many FLOW cards and Streamlines, that with a group of people with energy syphon on allows me to use my powers just about as often as I would like or need to.

 

I still believe that we need to have more capacity room for other mods aside from the basic ones we use..although there is always a need for balance I think it would be nice to see an increased enemy difficulty and with that the ability to have more of the survival and utility cards equiped with enough capacity to equip all of the survival utility cards, such as Vitality, Redirection, Quick Rest, Steel Fiber and the others I can't think of. I don't mean to have every mod card equiped...but rather to have more options as to what we can equip without running out of room.

 

To be able to have all the utilities on your warframe would still require some give and take in each individual level of these cards, it would be completely out of control if all the cards could be maxed out..kinda pointless for that really. As it is...you must choose...more shield...or more health...steel fiber or faster stamina regen..you can't really say I want a little of everything on my warframe..just more of this and less of that..

 

And this is because there is just not enough capactiy with the warframe power cards in the same basket as the utility cards.

 

But without a massive difficulty increase..I see no need for change before that.

 

I think you may have read something other than what I intended to say in my post, but I also could have been unclear or what I'm taking from your post is not what you are getting at, so my bad however it works out.

 

I in no way want to be able equip all the utility cards at max level because like you put forth that would be crazy. There should always be some level of give or take.

 

What I meant to state (and hopefully I do it better this time) is that I believe that the we way energy works period (ignoring utility cards that can make if way more useful) is part of the problem of our warframe's powers not being as desirable to slot in or use a lot of the time in combat thus decreasing the use of the things that make our frames truly unique.

 

The discussion of energy is out of place in this topic though, and I don't want to derail especially since there have already been threads about it.

[Nykxx]

 I think the whole Mod system will be good when more mods and new skills are released so you have to make a choice. Right now its just boring. With an overcharged frame you have enough capacity to put everything in you would want for your frame. Like you put in high shields because you your frame has high base shield. but wait i can get high shield, armor, health shield regen and some power without missing out on something.

 

As far as i know before you had a certain number of mod slots that you could put mods into. But you could do something like, shield, shield, shield but then have no option to put other things into your frame (not sure because i started after U7).

 

Fact is though, when the number of possibilitys increase with the creation of new mods, you have to choose again and most of the problems i mentioned will go away by themself.

 

I think though modding the skills into your frame is bad design because there are some highly situational skills that most people dont even put in their frame because they want to save the energy. But once in a moon you will have that situation and the skill is not available, so you missing out on your play experience.

 

They could give each skill build into the frame at the start (not as a mod), but create mods that alter and modifie the skills (kind of like diablo 3`s Rune system) wich you find, rank up and put into your frame. Even if its only 2 per skill, like Slash dash Damage and Slash dash Range. This gives you customization while still letting all the frames have all their signature moves at all times. This also gives the devs some room on the level designs, like making a shortcut that is pullable by mag (a bridge or something), because it will happen more often. No more "hey excal, can you jump up there and snipe?.... "Nope, forgott my jump at home" scenarios.

 

As much as i hated the system in D3 i think it would work excellent in this game in combination with the mod system. So i think the foundation with the new mod System is great but has to be utilized to its full potential. This would put warframe one step higher on the "great games" ladder.

[Bladesx]

I think another way of thinking about it
the op wants more meaningful skill upgrades rather than from rank 1>2>3> skill is now maxed it seems like he wants to go rank 1 > 2 > 3 > switch to another ability or and a new ability if we factor in that the mod system must stay the same and the new abilities are added to each and every warframe. I would agree with doing this if that's what the op wants. Otherwise no.

the system currently is currently a tradeoff system: you can have this but you can't have this if you choose that to make specialisation depend on the player. (Skills are currently optional)

so if we were to remove the skills from the mod slot pool they would have to increase the cost of all mods which equip to your warframe to keep the system the same

If they were to add a skill tree they would most likely keep the skills equiped number limit to 4 so it would be kind of pointless, because they still want difficulty not that they want you all rounder 1 hit killing every moving thing despite what protection they have.
 

[2ply]

BUMP...changes have been made to better express this idea. Please review

[linthimar]

Think about the potential to FINE tune the warframe powers to do exactly what you want..

 

Slash Dash could do more..you could say I like the move but I want it to also apply an AOE at the end of it..or I want there to be a damage over time effect to all that DO NOT DIE...like bleeding effects..this type of talent tree for the powers could allow you to customize the Slash Dash ability like that if you want to put points in those types of "modifiers"

 

Think about a talent in this talent tree called "efficiency" its effect would lower the energy cost of  the warframe ability, like Slash Dash could have Efficiency as a 3rd tier abilitiy!

 

This is a very nice concept, I can see where the mods we have would still play the same role they do now, but to take the warframes special abilities and make them acutally SPECIAL would be AWESOME!

 

You SIR....are Brilliant!

 

+1

Edited May 1, 2013 by linthimar

[2ply]

This is a very nice concept, I can see where the mods we have would still play the same role they do now, but to take the warframes special abilities and make them acutally SPECIAL would be AWESOME!

 

You SIR....are Brilliant!

 

+1

 

Thank you!

 

Its just a suggestion though.

[neKroMancer]

Overly complex but good concept.

Honestly, if you want to create variance of each skill - simply create a tree within each skill mod. When you fuse and reach new level, the game gives you a choice of how would you like your power to develop.

IE.

Slash dash - lv2 a choice between more damage or more length.

Slash dash - lv4 a choice between elemental damage from your melee weapon added into it or less energy consume per cast.

Easier to implement and doesn't have to create more variables in mod capacity system. The way I see it, we don't need harder enemy with more HP/damage in the game (powercreep is the reason) - we need complex enemies with more mechanics in them similar to monster hunter or dark soul.

[Argoms]

Hot damn, this is a bad idea.

[Rabcor]

I've had enough of skill-trees.

[Loswaith]

While skill trees have some merrit at the end of the day its not really all that different from the mods.

 

The perk of the mods is you can change one aspect of your build without having to redo every other part on a respec.

 

Also there is potential for your tree idea to be incorperated into the mod system without any drawbacks.

 

Using the fusion system you could make slash dash more efficient by fusing streamline and slash dash.

More range: slash dash and continuity, more damage: slash dash and focus.

 

Sure currently powers stats are tied directly to the frames (they could be on the mods already for all I know), though as more abilities come out for each frame individual mods can pick up this information opening up exactly what you want.

 

The benefit of the mod is you can have a longer slash dash, sitting there to swap out instantly for that one that does more damage, or the one that is more range and damage, and so forth, wthout any need to update the UI or controls or having the large time sinks to respecall those points just becuase you want one point less in damage and one more in range.