All Powers Should Have Scale Ability Outright, Augments Should Add To/alter That Scale Ability

[AlphaHorseman]

Savage silence creates a damage amplification for finisher damage and both these frames have kits that work synergistically due to the fact that they can both create opportunities for finishers quite easily. 

 

Ash with his teleport allows you to instantly perform a finisher on enemies he TPs to and Hydroid has multiple skills that provide knock down allowing easy finishers.

Oh cool! Never knew they could synergize like that!

[Zardbooster]

To be honest i kinda like the support element the elemantal damage add'ers give, though its most practical use is on ember, since she has something that increases fire damagedone to enemies and it can end up giveing a rather substantial boost to damage, but it's impossible to hit anyone that is moving (since you have to hit them directly).

That said I still like the idea behind it, if only there was a way for the elemental frames to make someone weaker to that paticular type of damage, these would shine so much more that they do right now.

 

While I have to agree that irradiating disarm and antimatter absorb does add some interesting aspects to the powers, and one might argue that they diminishes or remove the weakness of the abilities (Irradiating disarm makes disarm effective against infested, where it was previously not too good, and antimatter absorb gives you a cover while shooting the ball), i can't help but to feel that these seem just a tiny bit too much, but then I realise that there is a lot of other mods that is equally as powerful and ridiculous, an di'll have to give in to this ever creeping power.

 

Now for the useless augments, or at least those i deem useless, is those that doesn't synergize with the actual power, such as ballistic bullseye and pool of life, the first kills most things in 1 hit, that and you can never be certain to get a specific proc when using it unless you only have 1 damage type, and with what is realisticly useful on an insta-kill you end up gimping your guns to make a rather trivial mod matter, as for pool of life, the ability gives the target 10 times the normal max health making not only harder to kill, but also give you more health while doing so making the only real advantage of the ability the apparently randomly spawning energy orb, so in short it's trivial.

[AlphaHorseman]

Completely 100% agreed, and also I want a Syndicate Reward balance too

Syndicate Reward Balance?

 

To be honest i kinda like the support element the elemantal damage add'ers give, though its most practical use is on ember, since she has something that increases fire damagedone to enemies and it can end up giveing a rather substantial boost to damage, but it's impossible to hit anyone that is moving (since you have to hit them directly).

That said I still like the idea behind it, if only there was a way for the elemental frames to make someone weaker to that paticular type of damage, these would shine so much more that they do right now.

 

While I have to agree that irradiating disarm and antimatter absorb does add some interesting aspects to the powers, and one might argue that they diminishes or remove the weakness of the abilities (Irradiating disarm makes disarm effective against infested, where it was previously not too good, and antimatter absorb gives you a cover while shooting the ball), i can't help but to feel that these seem just a tiny bit too much, but then I realise that there is a lot of other mods that is equally as powerful and ridiculous, an di'll have to give in to this ever creeping power.

 

Now for the useless augments, or at least those i deem useless, is those that doesn't synergize with the actual power, such as ballistic bullseye and pool of life, the first kills most things in 1 hit, that and you can never be certain to get a specific proc when using it unless you only have 1 damage type, and with what is realisticly useful on an insta-kill you end up gimping your guns to make a rather trivial mod matter, as for pool of life, the ability gives the target 10 times the normal max health making not only harder to kill, but also give you more health while doing so making the only real advantage of the ability the apparently randomly spawning energy orb, so in short it's trivial.

I guess they tried to cater some to different play styles, but yes, some of these have their quirks and gimmicks that need to be fleshed out.

[geninrising]

Syndicate Reward Balance?

 

I guess they tried to cater some to different play styles, but yes, some of these have their quirks and gimmicks that need to be fleshed out.

By syndicate reward balance he means a balancing of the usability of syndicate rewards(mods and weapons) themselves.

[climatiseur]

Of all the augment mods, my opinion of the most useless one - well of life augment, dropping health orb after ability finished....so I just heal from well of life (if i really used it) and then you give more health orbs for the just full-healthed me....

 

Why not make it sth like:

 

Linking well

 

When allies shoot the welled target once, a link is created between that ally and the target. The "well" no long heal the ally, but instead will absorb 10 / 15 / 20 / 30 % of the incoming damage of the ally. 

 

The well's health is still being boosted 10 times more, like how well of life did. So it can absorb load of damage from up to 3 allies.

 

However, the linking range and duration of this will be - 50 % of the original well of life.

 

I don't dare to say this idea is really good, but I am quite sure it's better than giving health orbs isn't it....

Edited January 11, 2015 by climatiseur

[AlphaHorseman]

By syndicate reward balance he means a balancing of the usability of syndicate rewards(mods and weapons) themselves.

Ah, now I can see what he means. Some of the syndicate weapon buffs are for lackluster weaponry.

 

Of all the augment mods, my opinion of the most useless one - well of life augment, dropping health orb after ability finished....so I just heal from well of life (if i really used it) and then you give more health orbs for the just full-healthed me....

 

Why not make it sth like:

 

Linking well

 

When allies shoot the welled target once, a link is created between that ally and the target. The "well" no long heal the ally, but instead will absorb 10 / 15 / 20 / 30 % of the incoming damage of the ally. 

 

The well's health is still being boosted 10 times more, like how well of life did. So it can absorb load of damage from up to 3 allies.

 

However, the linking range and duration of this will be - 50 % of the original well of life.

 

I don't dare to say this idea is really good, but I am quite sure it's better than giving health orbs isn't it....

I'd say that's a better augment than what we have now, it gives your teammates some leeway with damage incoming and helps to synergize with the rest of the team.

[Ryjeon]

I would like Augments to change how abilities play. They don't have to be just straight upgrades they can also provide a new angle to approach the game. For example I would love an augment that changed Radial Javelin into a multi-projectile Cone. Then I can use it to add more damage into a focused area as opposed to a generic room aoe. It may be weaker than RJ's current implementation but it would be much more interesting. The current augment implementation of just adding a little bonus to every ability seems limited to me and doesn't serve to grow the game as much as it could.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Ryjeon

[AlphaHorseman]

I would like Augments to change how abilities play. They don't have to be just straight upgrades they can also provide a new angle to approach the game. For example I would love an augment that changed Radial Javelin into a multi-projectile Cone. Then I can use it to add more damage into a focused area as opposed to a generic room aoe. It may be weaker than RJ's current implementation but it would be much more interesting. The current augment implementation of just adding a little bonus to every ability seems limited to me and doesn't serve to grow the game as much as it could.

 

I would like you to see this:

 

Completely agreed OP, I have even talked about this before.

 

The thing is, Augment mods have TREMENDOUS potential (like all things in Warframe, heh). Take an ability, and make it worthwhile baseline. Now add at least 2 different augment mods for said skill (only one is equippable per ability). Example:

 

Crush. Absolutely lackluster. Make it good baseline, like this:

* 50/50 of damage is now Magnetic and Puncture (makes way more sense)

* Once reaching the end of the ability, all enemies are slammed together in front of Mag. For each unit lifted, all targets suffer an additional 40 Impact damage (corpses also contribute!). That further emphasizes Mag's role as a "Reverser", using the power of the enemies to her advantage, here taking advantage of their numbers, their horde-powers.

* Once all enemies are slammed together, they lay on the ground for up to 4 seconds, still crushed together (think: Ragdolled). Affected by Power Duration.

 

Now you have a very solid Ultimate! What could the Augments do then? Some random ideas:

 

Augment 1) Railgun Crush - After enemies are slammed together, they are then launched in the direction Mag is aiming and anything colliding suffers X Impact damage (corpses also count).

Augment 2) Sadistic Crush - After enemies are slammed together, enemies are still held together in the air, suffering constant Magnetic damage, but Mag now also starts draining energy over time. Let's go by casting it again, or if all enemies die.

Augment 3) Forcefield Crush - While the animation lasts, Mag also projects a magnetic forcefield. This forcefield stops all gunfire from hitting Mag (maybe even launch the projectiles back?) and greatly slows down any unit that enters, which wasn't lifted.

 

See? A viable ability now can be augmented to further awesomeness. How do you want to augment it? Launching CC and added damage? Use Augment 1. Lasting CC and added damage? Then use Augment 2. More defense? Then use Augment 3.

 

Augments... it could be so much fun. But like all things in Warframe, they fail in their execution and due to their extreme lack of polish...

 

It's one way that augments can go, as upgrades to powers while also changing up the mechanics, more so a hybrid of what you thought of and what some of them are now. 

 

I actually do agree with you that some augment options could be ways that change the mechanic of the power they augment, maybe not too much as side grades, but I can see them being both an upgrade and a power changer, depending on a persons play style. I would also hope that it adheres to some of the rules stated, meaning that if a player loses some sense of CC from the power change, they gain some sort of Utility for Scale Ability.

 

Though, implementation of this would be like giving frames alternate abilities. It would require more animations and work, but it could be an avenue to take as well as upgrade augments. Diversity would be pretty good.

Edited January 12, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[XToxinator]

Thanks for the support. I hope DE finds these rules agreeable, or that others within the community can contribute to help and flesh this frame out. (haha, Frame, pun not intended, but welcomed)

No problem. OP

[AlphaHorseman]

Gonna do a revision of this to try and fine tune the ideas. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Qynchou]

Youre right actually. Rhino should be able to remove iron skin whenever without an augment.

 

I mean really, I can help out with augments DE, a lot of people can, proper augments that arent OP but make powers a little different and useful till endgame.

[TrinityPrime]

Well of Life Augment Pool Of Life: Creates a Link between the friendly target and the Trinity transferring a percentage of damage received to the Trinity as well as sharing excess health/energy gain between the two and any other Linked friendlies.  Increased base duration.  Pool Of Life Link disengages if the Trinity suffers damage through the link that would kill her, ignoring the would-be fatal damage transfer.

 

Or

 

Pool of Death: Enemies affected by Well of Life no longer provide healing, instead, damage received is transferred to nearby enemies in pulses.  If target dies, all damage not expelled through a pulse is sent through one final pulse.

 

Or when cast on allies, buffs their health or some S#&$. But for the love of all that is fun in Warframe, please DE change it to anything!

Edited January 13, 2015 by KnotOfMetal

[AlphaHorseman]

Well of Life Augment Pool Of Life: Creates a Link between the friendly target and the Trinity transferring a percentage of damage received to the Trinity as well as sharing excess health/energy gain between the two and any other Linked friendlies.  Increased base duration.  Pool Of Life Link disengages if the Trinity suffers damage through the link that would kill her, ignoring the would-be fatal damage transfer.

 

Or

 

Pool of Death: Enemies affected by Well of Life no longer provide healing, instead, damage received is transferred to nearby enemies in pulses.  If target dies, all damage not expelled through a pulse is sent through one final pulse.

 

Or when cast on allies, buffs their health or some S#&$. But for the love of all that is fun in Warframe, please DE change it to anything!

Interesting augments, it would certainly synergize and have more purpose outside of what it is now, at least I think so.

[AlphaHorseman]

WE HAVE A VICTORY! Haha, I completely forgot to mention that Slash Dash now has melee counter additions per enemy hit! PROGRESS! Let's hope DE continues to strengthen the rest of the WarFrame kits that lack in the areas outlined.

[AlphaHorseman]

Changes made to the OP. I hope you all like them!

[geninrising]

WE HAVE A VICTORY! Haha, I completely forgot to mention that Slash Dash now has melee counter additions per enemy hit! PROGRESS! Let's hope DE continues to strengthen the rest of the WarFrame kits that lack in the areas outlined.

My question is though what happens to that augment? Also what is next hopefully on the agenda? Lastly is this thread accepting Augment ideas for specific powers to be perhaps pushed to a player concept mega thread containing all concepts felt to be fitting from this post via the above set guidelines??

Edited January 19, 2015 by geninrising

[AlphaHorseman]

My question is though what happens to that augment? Also what is next hopefully on the agenda? Lastly is this thread accepting Augment ideas for specific powers to be perhaps pushed to a player concept mega thread containing all concepts felt to be fitting from this post via the above set guidelines??

If anything, I hope it gets a tune up, as Slash Dash also might need one, as it's still not very scale able with the 5 seconds you have to actually use the increased damage.

 

Next, we continue to critique, add, and grow the rules and discuss other augments as they come to us.

 

And yep, any ideas people have to what augments could be are always welcomed, as the rest of the community can weight in on these augments and the augments released into the game. Could you expand on the last question?

[geninrising]

As far as the damage based 1's I see no real way to add to said abilities other than a damage boost and through use of the augment apply a form of utility/cc.

 

As an example.

Ember's #1 is currently a pure damage ability and if it is to be a single target damage ability (using that as a focus for the purposes of our idea) Should it's damage be much larger than the ultimates? Seeing as how it is focused to a single target with no other utility other than damage could they potentially add a scaling factor to it that bases at least a portion of it's damage off of the enemy it hits? I am awful with math but I do think that would meet the criteria of playing to it's strengths and providing scalability.

 

As an augment for said skill I would love to see a blast proc on hit that ragdolls said target away from the caster kind of like Banshees 1. It would be a single target ragdoll and blast effect but the ragdoll could produce physics impact like when a bow kills a target and the corpse hits others. The damage would be minimal for the physics impact but through skillful application it could be used as a modified crowd control to segregate dangerous targets from friendlies and potentially with good map awareness be a real BLAST to play with. ^^

 

This adds further scalability  in both the damage,CC/utility category, and an additional skill component to allow application to the fullest extent.

[AlphaHorseman]

As far as the damage based 1's I see no real way to add to said abilities other than a damage boost and through use of the augment apply a form of utility/cc.

 

As an example.

Ember's #1 is currently a pure damage ability and if it is to be a single target damage ability (using that as a focus for the purposes of our idea) Should it's damage be much larger than the ultimates? Seeing as how it is focused to a single target with no other utility other than damage could they potentially add a scaling factor to it that bases at least a portion of it's damage off of the enemy it hits? I am awful with math but I do think that would meet the criteria of playing to it's strengths and providing scalability.

 

As an augment for said skill I would love to see a blast proc on hit that ragdolls said target away from the caster kind of like Banshees 1. It would be a single target ragdoll and blast effect but the ragdoll could produce physics impact like when a bow kills a target and the corpse hits others. The damage would be minimal for the physics impact but through skillful application it could be used as a modified crowd control to segregate dangerous targets from friendlies and potentially with good map awareness be a real BLAST to play with. ^^

 

This adds further scalability  in both the damage,CC/utility category, and an additional skill component to allow application to the fullest extent.

Percentage damage to 1's? It could be interesting. It adds not only a damage output, but also a scaling factor. Larger than an ult? I don't know, as it's supposed to be a cheap power. But, depending on how the scaling of the damage is percentage wise, it could be interesting. It would also have to factor in how Fireball is a small AoE skill now, rather than just a single target. Same goes for Frosts' Freeze, they changed it to be not only a single hit on a target, but small AoE as well.

 

I like the augment idea, it actually makes her fireball into a workable CC ability. The augment opens up a new dynamic for the power to use, without it being necessitated, it still adds a dimension that the power can use, but does not need. Literally like she's throwing a concussion grenade with it's core mechanic being arson to a single target and a small area around that target. Apply the affects of Accelerant, and you've got a Frame that can excel in damage output and crowd control.

[geninrising]

Percentage damage to 1's? It could be interesting. It adds not only a damage output, but also a scaling factor. Larger than an ult? I don't know, as it's supposed to be a cheap power. But, depending on how the scaling of the damage is percentage wise, it could be interesting. It would also have to factor in how Fireball is a small AoE skill now, rather than just a single target. Same goes for Frosts' Freeze, they changed it to be not only a single hit on a target, but small AoE as well.

 

I like the augment idea, it actually makes her fireball into a workable CC ability. The augment opens up a new dynamic for the power to use, without it being necessitated, it still adds a dimension that the power can use, but does not need. Literally like she's throwing a concussion grenade with it's core mechanic being arson to a single target and a small area around that target. Apply the affects of Accelerant, and you've got a Frame that can excel in damage output and crowd control.

Perhaps have the percentage scaling only scale off of the primary target so that target acquisition is also skill based to an extent. What I mean by skillful in that respect is if you hit a little runner you are going to get less damage than if you hit the Ancient standing next to him.

 

As far as the augment, that's what I based it around so hopefully thematically and per the prerequisites it would suffice, but now we have to review and theorize as to whether it would be op in some way? Or would this be predicated on the idea that ALL other 1s get a rework?

[AlphaHorseman]

Perhaps have the percentage scaling only scale off of the primary target so that target acquisition is also skill based to an extent. What I mean by skillful in that respect is if you hit a little runner you are going to get less damage than if you hit the Ancient standing next to him.

 

As far as the augment, that's what I based it around so hopefully thematically and per the prerequisites it would suffice, but now we have to review and theorize as to whether it would be op in some way? Or would this be predicated on the idea that ALL other 1s get a rework?

Percentage scaling on the primary target reigns it in, that sounds reasonable.

 

Maybe not all 1's getting reworked, because many function differently, some function and scale without an augment, others, well, let's hope we can get them to function and scale without an augment one day. Percentage damage could work, it could be OP if enemies that have been already hit are continually targeted for the concussion blast. Maybe have it where enemies that are already affected by the concussion effect are immune to said concussion for a couple of seconds? Maybe 3? That way players can hit a target and the area around him for the concussion, but further shooting off that power in that area only applies damage to those targets, rather than continually knocking them back.

[geninrising]

Percentage scaling on the primary target reigns it in, that sounds reasonable.

 

Maybe not all 1's getting reworked, because many function differently, some function and scale without an augment, others, well, let's hope we can get them to function and scale without an augment one day. Percentage damage could work, it could be OP if enemies that have been already hit are continually targeted for the concussion blast. Maybe have it where enemies that are already affected by the concussion effect are immune to said concussion for a couple of seconds? Maybe 3? That way players can hit a target and the area around him for the concussion, but further shooting off that power in that area only applies damage to those targets, rather than continually knocking them back.

That would fit perfectly with Embers overall thematic of moderate CC on half her abilities(now if we can just get WOF a toggle and blast proc on hit) lol

[AlphaHorseman]

That would fit perfectly with Embers overall thematic of moderate CC on half her abilities(now if we can just get WOF a toggle and blast proc on hit) lol

It makes sense that WoF would have it, I just hope they do so.

[geninrising]

Frost's Freeze 2.0

 

Freeze now applies current damage in a 10m aoe on up to 10 targets at point of impact INSTANTANEOUSLY!(let's remove that ignorant "flight time" mechanic) Aoe range is unaffected by power range mods to ensure that Frost's ability to use it is not reliant on ranged builds that do not play well with certain snowglobe builds.

Additionally for every target under 10 the damage that would have been done to each of the 10 targets is split and dealt to the actual targets struck by this ability. The reason for this is attributed to IRL affects of cold. IRL if a person is subjected to a certain degree of coldness the effects of that coldness will be lessened with more bodies huddled together. In game we could simulate this through this effect.

 

This would allow Freeze to scale much better than currently in many situations and add somewhat to the thematic of Frost being our very own Jack Frost.

 

Augment Freeze Force 2.0

Instead of buffing teammates Frost now creates an area of Frozen Ground around point of impact. This Frozen ground causes all enemies that attempt to traverse it to fall to the ground and are required to get back up after a 1 second stun effect. Enemies that have slipped in this way area immune to said effect for 5 seconds but will walk much slower on said AOE. I feel this effect would also go quite well on the current iteration of Icewave Impedence to bring it in line with Frost's overall thematic.

 

It would be seriously fun and useful to be able to knock our current bullet sponges down for a round of ground finishers rather than the lackluster buff we have now or the slow mechanic present on Icewave Impedence.

[AlphaHorseman]

Frost's Freeze 2.0

 

Freeze now applies current damage in a 10m aoe on up to 10 targets at point of impact INSTANTANEOUSLY!(let's remove that ignorant "flight time" mechanic) Aoe range is unaffected by power range mods to ensure that Frost's ability to use it is not reliant on ranged builds that do not play well with certain snowglobe builds.

Additionally for every target under 10 the damage that would have been done to each of the 10 targets is split and dealt to the actual targets struck by this ability. The reason for this is attributed to IRL affects of cold. IRL if a person is subjected to a certain degree of coldness the effects of that coldness will be lessened with more bodies huddled together. In game we could simulate this through this effect.

 

This would allow Freeze to scale much better than currently in many situations and add somewhat to the thematic of Frost being our very own Jack Frost.

 

Augment Freeze Force 2.0

Instead of buffing teammates Frost now creates an area of Frozen Ground around point of impact. This Frozen ground causes all enemies that attempt to traverse it to fall to the ground and are required to get back up after a 1 second stun effect. Enemies that have slipped in this way area immune to said effect for 5 seconds but will walk much slower on said AOE. I feel this effect would also go quite well on the current iteration of Icewave Impedence to bring it in line with Frost's overall thematic.

 

It would be seriously fun and useful to be able to knock our current bullet sponges down for a round of ground finishers rather than the lackluster buff we have now or the slow mechanic present on Icewave Impedence.

Haha, I love the idea of Frosts Freeze that you've made.

 

It synergizes with the rest of his kit very well, while also giving it functionality outside of just being a single target Hard CC but not being OP.

 

Not to mention the rehashed augment actually does synergize with Ice Wave Impedance, but the functionality given with your rework of Freeze doesn't mean this augment necessitates it, rather complements Impedance's function.

 

These are awesome Genin! They strengthen the powers to make them not annoying damage functions, but work also as utility items that can complement one another, but function individually. Synergy but also stand alone power. I tip my hat to you.