Puncture Worthless?

[Rabcor]

i have 2 mods that give puncture one on shotgun (where the image implies that shots will pass through shields) and one for rifle (where the image implies that shots will pass through enemies)

 

i tried using the one with the rifle, and i have not noticed my shots passing through any enemies. haven't tried with shields though but this mod is really worthless and costs 10 capacity!

 

I read somewhere it used to be overpowered as hell and passed through a lot of enemies easily but it feels pretty useless to me now. at least at rank 0. if it allows you to penetrate the grineer shield lancer's shields then it's not useless but it's not worth 10 capacity.

[Kroul]

Whats your puncture mod lvl at?

 

If i remember i believe the shot only goes 0.1m after the initial impact and then just disappears if you have it at rank 0.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

i have 2 mods that give puncture one on shotgun (where the image implies that shots will pass through shields) and one for rifle (where the image implies that shots will pass through enemies)

 

i tried using the one with the rifle, and i have not noticed my shots passing through any enemies. haven't tried with shields though but this mod is really worthless and costs 10 capacity!

 

I read somewhere it used to be overpowered as hell and passed through a lot of enemies easily but it feels pretty useless to me now. at least at rank 0. if it allows you to penetrate the grineer shield lancer's shields then it's not useless but it's not worth 10 capacity.

 

Try shooting at the grineer that carries the riot shield.  You'll notice more if you have an elemental mod like electricity. (you'll see the effect better.)  Your shots will ignore his shield and go through.  I've had corpus stand behind a railing and am able to shoot them as if there was nothing there.  I've basically removed armor piercing mods from anything I have puncture on.

 

I do have mine leveled up to 0.3m.

 

Let me know if you get the same results.

Edited May 1, 2013 by sushidubya

[Vo1tair3]

I used to use puncture on my guns too, but after reading around a bit I decided it was worthless as of right now. Use multi shot instead if you can get it, takes up same amount of points I think, but its far more useful.

[Shion963]

Try shooting at the grineer that carries the riot shield.  You'll notice more if you have an elemental mod like electricity. (you'll see the effect better.)  Your shots will ignore his shield and go through.  I've had corpus stand behind a railing and am able to shoot them as if there was nothing there.  I've basically removed armor piercing mods from anything I have puncture on.

 

I do have mine leveled up to 0.3m.

 

Let me know if you get the same results.

 

Puncture allows the bullet to pass through so-and-so centimeters of material. Armor piercing gives you more damage. You can easily shoot the top of a shield grineer's head if you aim at the very top of their riot shield.

 

IMO Puncture is more useful for Corpus missions because they hide behind railings in their tileset, but not so much in other situations. It's a use, but not so prevalent one.

[drunkpunk222]

For me yes , there is one type of mobs who use shield and those who hide against small walls. I snipe them with pistol easy so no use for so huge amount of points.

[Excitonex]

I wish puncture worked with my Paris. I want to shoot more than 1 enemy and right now it seems like the arrows are pretty buggy.

[Rabcor]

arrows are just bolts i hear.

[toolofdarkness]

i have my ap mod on my paris to level 8 and i can hit aperson behind another person at least on the lower level missions but i dont have the puncture mod installed so i find no use for the mod from what i hear on these threads

[Spinner187]

i have my ap mod on my paris to level 8 and i can hit aperson behind another person at least on the lower level missions but i dont have the puncture mod installed so i find no use for the mod from what i hear on these threads

You have to treat the AP mod like a elemental mod. It just adds more damage. It doesn't actually increase "armor piercing".

As for the Paris going through multiple enemies, it can initially do that on lower level enemies.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Spinner187

[nullCassielle]

I find puncture useful in infested missions on the Bronco and Strun, because it can eat through large packs of chargers. That is really it though. It's worthless in almost 90% of cases and best replaced with multishot or an elemental damage mod.

[Haldos]

Unfortunately the only type I've found is for the pistol but my experience has pinned it as not nearly being worth the price.

I would love to see it instead be reworked so it passes through a certain number of enemies rather than specified by distance. What I mean is, say your puncture mod says it goes through 2 enemies; On firing, the bullet will hit enemy number 1, doing its damage (to shields or health depending on the situation), continuing on its path into the second enemy and again, doing normal (or perhaps slightly reduced) damage and sailing into a third enemy where it stops. The big difference between how the mod works now and how I suggested is distance. The bullet would be able to continue its trajectory until it hit a wall or the specified enemy limit rather than being stopping the measly fraction of a meter it is now.

I would also suggest the limit being maxed at 3 penetrations (Giving a total of 4 possible hits per bullet), as it would cost a lot of points to use but give an equally large reward for it. I admit this may make certain weapons a little overpowered but that's why they're so hard to come by and cost so much. They're supposed to be whats going to turn your peashooter into a bazooka.

[NalkorRN]

What makes Puncture so awful was that before when you maxxed it out, it was 5.0 meters of penetration, now it's at best 0.5 or so depending on the weapon. Keep in mind how the cost is still sky high and almost right up there with a fully leveled multishot mod.

[KrAyZy]

I don't think it currently has a place as of yet. I agree with possible buffs.

[PyroGnome]

I have a 0.3 puncture on my Boltor and it doesn't even go through those tinfoil railings that are everywhere. 12 points for no effect. Maybe it's just bolt weapons that get no effect from it; I'll try it on my Gorgon and see if that helps.

[mmSNAKE]

Puncture as it is currently is a waste of points. Two of the three are 10+ points, for a benefit that is pretty much worthless. You see a little bit of result when the mod is maxed but that is ever so slight.

 

All the puncture mods need a buff, especially considering their cost, rarity and investment(to upgrade). If the base value was .75-1. There would be great use for it. However as it currently stands it's better off in the storage until they decide to adjust it.

[plznohurtme]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/30200-puncture-mods-are-still-not-worth-it/

 

pages of discussion on this exact topic, the search function on these forums is pretty good if you use it.

[Meltina]

What makes Puncture so awful was that before when you maxxed it out, it was 5.0 meters of penetration, now it's at best 0.5 or so depending on the weapon. Keep in mind how the cost is still sky high and almost right up there with a fully leveled multishot mod.

Puncture used to be 9.1 meters which let you shoot through the thick double doors and through boxes to hit enemies. Weapons like the boar and gorgon with large spreads used to clear halls with a few shots.

[Rabcor]

What makes Puncture so awful was that before when you maxxed it out, it was 5.0 meters of penetration, now it's at best 0.5 or so depending on the weapon. Keep in mind how the cost is still sky high and almost right up there with a fully leveled multishot mod.

at least the multishot mod does something, and is well worth it. Edited May 7, 2013 by rabcor

[Qb3rt]

Try shooting at the grineer that carries the riot shield.  You'll notice more if you have an elemental mod like electricity. (you'll see the effect better.)  Your shots will ignore his shield and go through.  I've had corpus stand behind a railing and am able to shoot them as if there was nothing there.  I've basically removed armor piercing mods from anything I have puncture on.

 

I do have mine leveled up to 0.3m.

 

Let me know if you get the same results.

I get that it's probably useful in that scenario .... but that is an awfully narrow, situational scope for a ridiculously rare mod requiring such an unusually large investment.

 

I'm sure it is probably nice with a leveled version of the mod to be able to hit shielded Grineer, or enemies crouched behind cover... but either I'm using an accurate weapon made to easily snipe their head poking above the cover... or an inaccurate weapon which will probably hit their head even if I aim for their concealed torso & wind up doing enough bonus dmg to their head to compensate being unable to penetrate their cover.

 

It seems like DE stepped onto a very slippery slope with this idea from the get-go, and realized it was probably a big mistake to introduce something that removes the fundamental, necessary limitation of line-of-sight from a FPS. But rather than remove the mod they instead left it in as a horribly ineffective, painfully expensive version.

[Vaskadar]

I suggested in another thread that puncture values should be a multiplier of the damage.

 

Let's say you have a snipetron, right? The damage is 100 for the snipetron.

 

So here's the formula

 

Damage (raw damage) * Puncture Multiplier (100 x 0.030) = 3 (in meters), correct? So when you add 120% damage, the puncture goes up and scales appropriately, bringing the snipetron's puncture max to 6.6 meters. This also ensures that shotguns don't have insane puncture, because puncture is based upon individual projectile damage. Even with the Hek's maximized damage and maximized puncture utilizing this formula, it wouldn't go over 1.08m, thus allowing you to hit the guy behind the dude you shot, but still maintaining some semblance of balance.

[Vaskadar]

I get that it's probably useful in that scenario .... but that is an awfully narrow, situational scope for a ridiculously rare mod requiring such an unusually large investment.

 

I'm sure it is probably nice with a leveled version of the mod to be able to hit shielded Grineer, or enemies crouched behind cover... but either I'm using an accurate weapon made to easily snipe their head poking above the cover... or an inaccurate weapon which will probably hit their head even if I aim for their concealed torso & wind up doing enough bonus dmg to their head to compensate being unable to penetrate their cover.

 

It seems like DE stepped onto a very slippery slope with this idea from the get-go, and realized it was probably a big mistake to introduce something that removes the fundamental, necessary limitation of line-of-sight from a FPS. But rather than remove the mod they instead left it in as a horribly ineffective, painfully expensive version.

 

There are many games that do utilize removing LOS, both past and present. Granted, the Farsight in perfect dark was horribly overpowered, but that's back when gun balance wasn't really factored in.

[MoonicusMaximus]

Prior to the Saryn Molt nerf, I would run a Saryn with a Hek using maxed Puncture on Infested Defense missions.

 

Using my Moult off of a railing to bait large groups of infested to just hang out in one spot staring at my decoy, it would group them up perfect to the point where a single shell from my Hek would hit roughly 50% of the group instead of just the first target touched by the pellet. When used in this fashion, the Puncture mods effect is very noticeable. But at the same time, it's very situational and requires a certain set of play styles to utilize effectively.

 

With all of that considered, I think it's a good mod in that regard.

Edited May 7, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[Qb3rt]

I think the underlying complaint with the mod is that players just can't visualize in-game distances to understand what the benefit could be. Telling me my bullets will travel 0.6 meters through objects doesn't really help if I haven't a clue how far that is in game.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Qb3rt

[Vaskadar]

Not for the cost, it isn't.

 

I did have a chat with Steve Sinclair at PAX East and he did say that they may have overreacted with nerfing the Puncture Mods, but they were also wildly broken beforehand.

 

Collateral kills with high powered weapons is what I want. It'd provide a very real and noticeable incentive to firing into groups with high powered weaponry. See my aforementioned formula.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Vaskadar