For All The People About To Argue On The Alerts.

[griever102]

Wait... Banshee is an alert only item too? Tf? Wow... just wow...

 

No, it's not, I got 2 parts from endless defense and 1 from raid missions.

[Blatantfool]

If they really wanted it to be convenient...it would just tell you what it was in game. Nice try though.

 

 It isn't a convenience for people in the game at the time - it is a convenience for the people who aren't at the game right that moment.

 

 If they are at home playing/doing something else it is very useful to have a tool to warn them what item is up next so that they can decide/try to get into the game.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Damonvile]

 It isn't a convenience for people in the game at the time - it is a convenience for the people who aren't at the game right that moment.

 

 If they are at home playing/doing something else it is very useful to have a tool to warn them what item is up next so that they can decide/try to get into the game.

That still doesn't explain why it has a ? in game instead of just telling you what it is. Clearly it's not random and you don't have to do it to find out what it is so.... why bother with the mystery when it's not a mystery.

[Blatantfool]

That still doesn't explain why it has a ? in game instead of just telling you what it is. Clearly it's not random and you don't have to do it to find out what it is so.... why bother with the mystery when it's not a mystery.

 

 They probably have more things on their plate they want to get out of the way that are higher on the list then changing that. Update 8 is on the horizon. Maybe it'll change then.

 

 It is one of those things that doesn't hurt anything, so it just isn't a high priority I imagine.

[Loswaith]

...

 I don't think there is anything wrong with Alerts but I'm still dissatisfied that they did pop a first of its kind into the Alerts. Not a soul really minds when all you honestly get from the Alerts are Weapon Variants and skins.

 ...

 

So if the glaive had of been just a dagger skin (but looked the same as it does now) you realy think the same wouldn't have occured?  I think the outcome would of been much the same result.  It is after all the Glaive.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Loswaith

[Clessiah]

That still doesn't explain why it has a ? in game instead of just telling you what it is. Clearly it's not random and you don't have to do it to find out what it is so.... why bother with the mystery when it's not a mystery.

Cross promotion.

 

At least it's not asking you to spend platinum to uncensor it (I mean it. Some games do this kind of crap).

[Quetzhal]

So if the glaive had of been just a dagger skin (but looked the same as it does now) you realy think the same wouldn't have occured?  I think the outcome would of been much the same result.  It is after all the Glaive.

Personally? Yes, pretty sure the same wouldn't have occurred. I certainly wouldn't have cared. It has nothing to do with it being iconic and everything to do with the mechanics.

For the record, I got the Glaive when it came out. I only objected to it being on the alerts because free players shouldn't be locked from new mechanics. Of course, that's my opinion. Other people just call it a gimmick. Depends on how you view the weapon, I guess.

Far as I know, most people were annoyed because it introduced a mechanic, not just because of its skin.

[Afroman12]

Why do alerts have ? then tell you what they are on twitter...  That's never made sense to me.

 

My best guess is a cheap means of advertisement. Example.

 

I follower the Alert Twitter. My follwers see my retweent or see that I'm following them. Wonders what the game is. Come here. Possible new player.

[Loswaith]

Personally? Yes, pretty sure the same wouldn't have occurred. I certainly wouldn't have cared. It has nothing to do with it being iconic and everything to do with the mechanics.

For the record, I got the Glaive when it came out. I only objected to it being on the alerts because free players shouldn't be locked from new mechanics. Of course, that's my opinion. Other people just call it a gimmick. Depends on how you view the weapon, I guess.

Far as I know, most people were annoyed because it introduced a mechanic, not just because of its skin.

 

The only new mechanic it realy added is the bounce/return factor.  Everything else you can achieve without it, because lets face it you never completly run out of ammo and cant get more.

 

Had it been a plain ordinary frizbie looking disk I'm sure it wouldnt have garnered much attention either, much like the heat dagger.

 

You may very well be one of the few exceptions, but would you have spent platinum for a pink feather duster that tickles enemies into harmless teady bears or to death?

[Damonvile]

My best guess is a cheap means of advertisement. Example.

 

I follower the Alert Twitter. My follwers see my retweent or see that I'm following them. Wonders what the game is. Come here. Possible new player.

I think your guess is probably pretty accurate. I don't use twitter but do use the sites that show what they are. So to me it's just annoying, but it's harmless really and free advertising I guess.

[Clessiah]

I think your guess is probably pretty accurate. I don't use twitter but do use the sites that show what they are. So to me it's just annoying, but it's harmless really and free advertising I guess.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/34063-warframe-alert-sound-pack/

 

The question mark never bothered me because of this.

[Quetzhal]

The only new mechanic it realy added is the bounce/return factor.  Everything else you can achieve without it, because lets face it you never completly run out of ammo and cant get more.

The bounce/return factor allows you to hit enemies that are around corners, or while remaining in cover. It's a pretty useful new mechanic in tight rooms.

Feather duster doesn't really fit in the Warframe universe, but taking the same mechanic - flamethrower/plasmathrower, hold to do damage, melee range and high stun. Would I buy it? Maybe. Would definitely consider it, though it's not as cool (nothing to do with it being the Glaive, I didn't play Dark Sector. I just like the idea of a throwing weapon.) Gun that throws down a singularity to clump enemies together while doing no damage? Would absolutely get that. Would be hilarious. Support-type gun, but still hilarious.

The core of this particular debate just seems to be speculation as to how the community would react, though. Neither of us can prove much regarding it aside from stating our opinions and observations.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Quetzhal

[-Legendzzz]

Warframe has invented new model its called Pay to Quit ;) u can pretty much buy anything do 3 defense missions max all and u're done ;) 

Whats the point.

[Worira]

There is rarley a "right" side and a "wrong" side in any argument.

Both sides have their valid points just as much as both sides might have their invalid points.

Put yourself in the other persons shoes, see it from there eyes, then find some kind of base in the middle.

De will read the topics anyway...staying contstructive and unbiased will help improve the game more then trying to win some argument online because of someones ego or stubborness.

 

Golden mean fallacy. If one person wants to kick all the puppies, and the other wants to kick none of the puppies, the answer isn't "kick half the puppies".

[Blatantfool]

So if the glaive had of been just a dagger skin (but looked the same as it does now) you realy think the same wouldn't have occured?  I think the outcome would of been much the same result.  It is after all the Glaive.

 

 That isn't what I said. No where did I try to imply the Glaive should have been a skin for another weapon. I said I feel like a lot of the problem was because it was the base version of a weapon type - the first of a kind - and it is only obtainable through RNG. That rustled some jimmies.

 

 What I meant to imply was that if the Glaive released simultaneously with something like a 'Dark Glaive' variant - then the Glaive was a Market BP and the 'Dark Glaive' was an Alert item - you'd have seen a hell of a lot less fuss.

 

 Mostly because people would have - in that situation - been able to obtain a base Glaive and have access to that weapon type. The the Dark Glaive would have been an alternate and rare version to wait it out for - but that is okay because even if the variant was regarded as a bit better you still would have been able to use that type of weapon without the RNG.

 

 A lot of outcry was over the idea that "You took this item - an item that is the only one that does what it does - and stuck it in as Alert only material. That is silly as hell. Things like the Dark Sword don't matter as much - that is just a Skana with a new skin and altered stats - but this is a whole type of weapon."

 

 So what if it wasn't like that at all? Well then a lot of the people unhappy about that wouldn't have ended up unhappy. The outcry would have been less.

 

 That is what I meant. Sorry if I was unclear.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Loswaith]

While I did understand what you meant, it was more a good comment to quote on, with a rethorical question to make people think about it.

 

Personally I think allot of people (not all mind you) jumped on the mechanics issue (as it looks less trivial to do so) when they just wanted it because it looks 'cool', not for any real value in and of the weapon itself.  Enough so that a simple skin of it the way it works in melee would of been enough to garner close to the same uproar (though wouldnt of had the support of those that realy wanted it because it's a throwing type weapon, because I do agree they have a legitimate complaint on that front).

 

Honestly I cant prove/disprove it either way as Quetzhal mentioned, I'm basing that on reactions I've seen in previous games and the reactions of things previously in warframe.   I mean the heat dagger had mechanics that others didnt, its inherant fire blast/damage, and bearly ruffled anything in the forums.

That said releasing it as purely a melee weapon skin would of had heaps of posts asking why it cant be thrown.

 

It's also faily naive to think something like the glaive (as a skin or completle weapon), a hugley symbolic weapon on the DE front wasnt going to be restricted so it wasnt completly trivial to get by just buying a blueprint (as any credit purcahsable blueprints are).  It did supprise me it was for platinum, until I considered it from a marketing perspective, the sheer demand such an item had before being released, you would clearly be lax not to see it's earning potential.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Loswaith

[Blatantfool]

While I did understand what you meant, it was more a good comment to quote on, with a rethorical question to make people think about it.

 

Personally I think allot of people (not all mind you) jumped on the mechanics issue (as it looks less trivial to do so) when they just wanted it because it looks 'cool', not for any real value in and of the weapon itself.  Enough so that a simple skin of it the way it works in melee would of been enough to garner close to the same uproar (though wouldnt of had the support of those that realy wanted it because it's a throwing type weapon, because I do agree they have a legitimate complaint on that front).

 

Honestly I cant prove/disprove it either way as Quetzhal mentioned, I'm basing that on reactions I've seen in previous games and the reactions of things previously in warframe.   I mean the heat dagger had mechanics that others didnt, its inherant fire blast/damage, and bearly ruffled anything in the forums.

That said releasing it as purely a melee weapon skin would of had heaps of posts asking why it cant be thrown.

 

It's also faily naive to think something like the glaive (as a skin or completle weapon), a hugley symbolic weapon on the DE front wasnt going to be restricted so it wasnt completly trivial to get by just buying a blueprint (as any credit purcahsable blueprints are).  It did supprise me it was for platinum, until I considered it from a marketing perspective, the sheer demand such an item had before being released, you would clearly be lax not to see it's earning potential.

 

 I see where you are coming from, I just have trouble feeling like that is the case. 

 

 I think, early on after the patch a lot of angry people where saying all kinds of things. Just about anyone had something to say. Most of it was melodrama. "How dare you do this DE!" or "Shut up you are F2P!" and similar dumb crap. Most of it was just the side effect of the hype train being derailed.

 

 Eventually, as the dust settled, the players upset because they simply didn't want to pay just stopped talking about it. For them the answer was obvious - just wait. It'd have to happen eventually. Like how it happened Yesterday. The argument that it should simply be free didn't make much sense because - if you are patient - it was free.

 

 The argument that lasted was that it is kinda cold to pad the Alert list with weapons that have no equivalent. That before now it was all Variants in Alerts - which is fine because equivalents are easily available and are suitable enough. The idea that Alerts are a poor way to distribute the only source of a given playstyle because they removes the item as a goal. The game doesn't have a spectacularly long list of things you can really work towards - especially for free players who are currently dealing with restrictions like limited character slots. (Thank god new guys start with 50 plat for two more slots. 2 Warframe is very, very limited. Weapon slots less so.)

 

  The people I saw sticking to their guns weren't the 'Gimme gimme' types of players people like to say they are. Most of them where making the very acute observation that this game doesn't actually have enough to DO or EARN. Saying they'd rather not have select weapon types taken entirely out of a loop and distributed with RNG. These where a lot of players saying very clearly that they'd rather be able to set a clear goal they can work towards then wait around staring lecherously at Twitter.

 

 I feel like, knowing what the people who where still dissatisfied after the drama was done where thinking, that it really does boil down to 'The throwing disc weapon type is only obtained via RNG' (I mean, yeah. Of course it is in the cash shop. As it should be. But this isn't a matter of the cash shop. It is a matter of how you get it otherwise.)

 

 All that said, it is all good. I'm still less then thrilled with their handling of the situation. I think that at this point there is no reason for serious change - what is done is done and honestly this wasn't a huge deal. I hope they simply handle it better next time. There are a ton of small things that could have changed about that release that would have made it less dramatic and probably kept most people happy.

[Venarge]

Alert system is random.

 

Alert system is time-based.

 

Everyone knows that and it's fine as long as they don't miss an alert with something they want.

 

Sometimes to catch an Alert depends on luck. You get it or you don't There is nothing in between.

 

Alert system is fine and does what it's designed for.

 

People tend to cry alot when cookie is gone.

 

People are happy when cookie is there.

 

I for one am happy that there are cookies at all.

 

Cheers

 

Praise this post....

And still. People will cry for those alerts they dont get and be happy if they get what they want. Its always like this and will always be like this..

At least, it never gets boring here with all those cry threads :D

[Gestalt]

I do not see Alerts as a goal you have to work for, as it's just a matter of pure luck. Farming blueprints for a warframe you need is also focused on luck, but you have agency on the outcome: Making an effort, that is, doing more and more runs, increases your chances of obtaining the item, while doing nothing reduces these chances to 0. Obtaining an item this way or any other ways that require player agency and effort is more satisfying than simply being basically freely given the item because you were online at a certain hour, while not obtaining the item because you weren't trying or because you were unlucky with the drops is much less frustrating than realizing you (for example) went to have dinner for 40 minutes and missed that Alert you were looking for. Because this is what Alerts are: Being online when the Alert you need deems itself worthy to appear.

The most important thing here is the Goal: If you have agency in the process of obtaining an item you want, it becomes a goal. Goals are incentives to keep playing, and keep the game fresh.

Goals represent freshness, while having to wait for something that is beyond your control and depends only on dumb luck becomes stale. I feel like waiting for the right Alerts to pop up is the very essence of stale, as you know for sure playing more will do nothing to get you closer to those items you need, which would make the game more fun for you.

 

Don't think I can put it better myself if I tried.  Thanks for saving me the work Cali XD

 

Everyone is fine with the Alert system until it doesn't give them what they want.

 

This is true to some extent, and I myself wasn't actively lobbying for a change to the alert system until this past weekend with the Glaive thing.  I however was pointing out that the system is flawed and needs a change like randomized reward on a per player basis, since the alert subforum was created (what, 3 months ago? 2? wow actually that thing started middle of January, has it been 3 and a half months?!?).  

 

Now that I've gotten the Glaive, I don't feel like I should stop pointing out the flaws of the system.  A bad system that takes away enjoyment of the game is still a bad system even if it drops a few cookies for you.  Here's to hoping DE can give us a more concrete answer on where they're taking the alerts soon.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Gestalt

[Damonvile]

Didn't all of you say the same things in that 48 page thread ? why repeat it all again ?

[Blatantfool]

 I feel like the Alert system isn't actually the problem - it is just that Warframe players are able to chew through the weapon selection that IS available in the market quite fast. We always need more badly. There is never going to be enough at the rate we get this stuff.

 

 We could really do with DE expanding the way we have to earn weapons. Actually making us work for it. Adding a serious reason for you to set a goal and either play your arse off or chip away at it.

 

 This goes hand in hand with how I mentioned that players would really appreciate things that are goals. More weapons will come over time and that is part of the cure - but what will do a lot to help is changing the way we EARN some things. 

 

 

 Why not add a weapon that has a set chance to be the reward for reaching Wave 25 in Defense? How about another weapon that requires 50?

 

 How about a weapon BP awarded to the player after successful driving away the Stalker a significant number of times?

 

 

 Gotta expand upon this eventually anyway.

[Blatantfool]

Didn't all of you say the same things in that 48 page thread ? why repeat it all again ?

 

 Sometimes you should stick to your guns.

[Damonvile]

 Sometimes you should stick to your guns.

What ever point/gripe/complaint you wanted to make about how it was implemented was made in spades there. They even posted about learning a valuable lesson.

Now you're just talking because you have something to say. Turning multiple threads into the same rant isn't sticking to your guns. It's just being annoying.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Damonvile

[TraumaHunter]

I had no problems with the previous alert system that went to my email.

RSS/twitter is broken at the core - the delay on it is sometimes 20 minutes when the alert is only 30 minutes long!  While some of you say "the third party app/program someone made" works.  I shouldn't have to rely on NON-DE stuff to have functioning alerts.

I just missed out on a catalyst because the alert only appeared in my RSS feed 15 minutes after the fact.  By the time I had logged in - it was over by a whopping 1 minute. :|

The most basic and simple solution would to just make all ? alerts last more than 30 minutes.  
It's just too frustrating =.= Making them last 2x as long would not be breaking anyones bones.   But it gives breathing room for the errors in the current official systems.

[Blatantfool]

What ever point/gripe/complaint you wanted to make about how it was implemented was made in spades there. They even posted about learning a valuable lesson.

Now you're just talking because you have something to say. Turning multiple threads into the same rant isn't sticking to your guns. It's just being annoying.

 

 I disagree. Like any other poster saying any other thing, I'm just being pretty straightforwards with my feedback.

 

 If it makes you feel better, you can know that I wont blame you if you simply don't read my posts if you see I'm talking about this topic. There is no expectation that anyone else seriously cares or anything. I feel like part of me getting to show support to Warframe, a game I enjoy, is sharing honest opinions whenever I can.