Please Stop Comparing This Game To Aaa Titles.

[_Bilko_]

Warframe beats the S#&$ out of any of those COD garbage games.

People still buy that crap?

no wonder we have so many PvP threads

[Blatantfool]

People still buy that crap?

no wonder we have so many PvP threads

 

 CoD is ridiculously successful still. It is probably one of the most consistent FPS out there. You'll always get exactly what they are selling you. 

 

 It is weird, the success of CoD banks entirely on the fact that Activision discovered there was a market for that sort of brainless twitch shooter. They know people like a game that lets you just turn your brain off any go into cruise control. So they got some people and they crafted a game that is absolutely amazing at just that.

 

 It is like Pokemon, it is the same thing every time. But people buy it BECAUSE it is the same thing every time. They like that thing and they want to have more.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Ced23Ric]

Usualy thats not the case. Its only when they get special status like "VIP" or "Founder" that people turn into $&*^s who think they are better than others because they spend 250$ on a free video game. The normal intelligent crowd that spends 10-20$ on some skins or weapon packs generaly dont look down on F2Ps.

 

I find both the direct and implicit insinuations of this post offensive.

[Ling-Ling]

Sir, Blizzard did not make LoL, Riot did.

That's not the point of OP's post, sir.

[GhostlightX]

I mean come on. Blizzard? Valve? How can any of you really think that DE can produce on the same terms as studios like that?

 

Because Warframe is way better than Diablo 3? True story.

[Shaemhameforash]

AberforthBrixby, on 02 May 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

This is getting ridiculous. I understand that games like LoL, DOTA, and TF2 also use a cash shop mechanic, but it is completely ignorant to put Warframe on the same playing field as any of those titles in terms of well, anything really. Marketing, exposure, playerbase, funding, dev team, everything. I mean come on. Blizzard? Valve? How can any of you really think that DE can produce on the same terms as studios like that?

People here say "this game should use a paid cosmetic cash shop system like (insert above title) if they want to survive"

But that's stupid. Those games don't survive because of their cash shops. Their cash shops survive because of the games they are attached to. TF2 had a MASSIVE playerbase before its cash shop was even introduced, with all of its steam hype, preorder bonuses attached to other games, players from TF classic etc. That game is huge and successful and never even needed a cash shop to survive, that was simply icing on the cake.

LoL and DOTA not only have heavy hitter dev teams backing them, but they are associated with Major League Gaming, giving them an incredible amount of market exposure basically for free. People are jumping in to these games hoping to be the next pro regardless of the cash shop mechanics. That was never part of its appeal to bring people in, it simply makes the ride more entertaining once you're on it. Nobody ever looked at those games and said "I want to play that game because of it's well balanced payment model." It doesn't even need its cash shop once again in order to stay afloat as a result of what it has going for it already.

Warframe has no massive dev team. It doesn't have a huge marketing campaign. It is not a part of any E-sport program. It does not have a huge AAA budget backed by EA or Activision. A small amount of exposure and its rinky-dink cash shop is literally all it has going for it.

Acting like it can survive on the same cash shop principles as games that have the above stated is simply silly and ignorant. Those games would survive regardless of their cash shop. Warframe is the opposite. It doesn't have nearly the required playerbase to make a purely cosmetic cash shop work. Its simple economics. So seriously, think a bit before you go about making a statement like "Look at LoL's cash shop, no wonder it's so popular. Warframe should copy that."

I agree with you that comparing AAA games and Warframe in terms of how they handle real currency is moot. However in terms of features and gameplay I think people should be comparing them. Not necessarily expect Warframe to compete, but if one game does something and it works, why not try and implement it here. Comparing is good, as long as it's reasonable. As you have pointed out though, most people aren't reasonable.

[Cinderain]

I never say, "this game should use a paid cosmetic cash shop system like (insert above title) if they want to survive".

 

I say, "this game should use a paid cosmetic/convenience cash shop system", because that's the balance of the universe.

Edited May 2, 2013 by FatalX7

[Geuax]

all games are in comption for my time and money. as such warframe will be compared to what ever the hell i choose.

 

 

/capitalism_punch

/'merica

[Eurhetemec]

This game has to compete against AAA games, for better or worse.

 

Thus refusing to compare it to them would not be very smart, frankly. I'm sure the devs themselves are well aware of the comparisons and make them internally.

 

In the end, if Warframe compares poorly with another F2P game, in terms of time vs. enjoyment vs. cost, then I'm going to play the other F2P game. So is more or less everyone except those who are ultra-heavily invested in Warframe (i.e. people at the top two founder levels, who have already paid more for Warframe than they would for an AAA game), who, obviously, would have reason to stick with it even if they had "better" alternatives.

 

The OP's post is very strange, however, in that he seems to think LoL has a "purely cosmetic" cash shop. It does not. It actually has a model relatively similar to that of Warframe, except it offers you considerably more for your money. League of Legends also did not have "big budget" backing, nor does it have one of the big publishers or the like behind it, and I don't understand why the OP believes it was always an AAA title in the same way DOTA2 is. Possibly he isn't aware of LoL's history? Anyway, LoL should, in many way, represent what Warframe aspires to become.

 

EDIT - I note that Path of Exile, which is definitely not AAA, though the best "Diablo clone" in gaming history (arguably better than D2!), seems to be doing okay on a purely cosmetic cash shop. The OP presumably isn't aware of it. I don't think Warframe needs to move to "purely cosmetic", myself, just to giving a better return per $ spent.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Eurhetemec

[krisp]

It also cashed in one of the current heaviest gaming trends with only one game as direct competition, while being created by former Blizzard employees and employees who worked on the original defense of the ancients, giving it an incredible amount of hype. They didn't even have to advertise it, internet forums everywhere were blowing up. The company also had to put barely any effort in to the concept as the game was designed to be a spiritual successor to DOTA, so they didnt have to worry about innovation at all.

 

You attach the words "from the makers of warcraft" to anything and it's guaranteed gold status.

If your crazy hyperbole was true, HoN would be at least as big as LoL right now.

[waaaaaaaals]

https://warframe.com/news/welcome-warframe-open-beta

 

 

The wait is over for gamers anticipating entry into one of the year’s hottest AAA Free-To-Play games, Warframe™

 

Can't really argue with the devs deciding the game is an AAA title so there's no reason not to compare it to other AAA titles.

Edited May 2, 2013 by waaaaaaaals

[PaperAlien]

That's the point of free to play model. 

If you think that free to play players shouldn't have a saying at all, then there isn't any point of this game being f2p. Just make a subscription game. 

Oh wait. How much people would actually pay for this game monthly? It's a fun game, but it's too small. 

Anyways, i don't agree that paying users should put themselves above everybody else. I like to address paying users in F2P as a donators, not content purchasers. 

Agreed. Has anyone seen the crap members post on Runescape forums? "I paid the game, and instead of supporting new content (which is fairly reasonable) I'm just gonna demand that free players get nothing new, not even a tiny part of the ~90% of the game that they already miss out on. Oh what's that free player? Shut up, you don't pay so you have no say."

I would say this is a AAA game in terms of quality, it's just that quality isn't the determining factor for cash-shop systems, it's more based on community size/popularity and other such factors. Admit it, our fanbase is probably much smaller than CoD's, even though Warframe completely stomps CoD in quality.

[RAinbowDucky]

Even if you think you know what F2P means, go have a read of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

Important thing to note, is that many games have transitioned between different payment models. (e.g. TF2 was actually once a purchasable title but became F2P)

It's entirely possible that DE have not adopted a even more liberal F2P model because they are having trouble handing the current player-base due to the sudden popularity of the game. There's nothing to say that this won't change in the future.

The game is in beta and there are the usual caveats. I encourage you to express your views, but please have some faith that DE will look after the community.

Edited May 2, 2013 by RAinbowDucky

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Usualy thats not the case. Its only when they get special status like "VIP" or "Founder" that people turn into $&*^s who think they are better than others because they spend 250$ on a free video game. The normal intelligent crowd that spends 10-20$ on some skins or weapon packs generaly dont look down on F2Ps.

It goes both ways. Not all founders are cocky, etc. and allot of free players are and are not. There are jerks everywhere rich or poor. Not all poor people are noble. Not all free players are poor, some are just cheap, some just don't want to be heavily invested into a game. Some people are rich from being stingy. I think it's ridiculous to judge people either way. People contribute whatever they choose to.

Winning in this game is getting on the leader boards, but no sum of money in the world is going to buy you that. A crapload of free time, skill, and intelligence will. The dude that recently got #1 is a founder at the disciple level.

I spend time on these forums because I'm bored and sometime come across good knowledge and funny stuff. I try to be helpful at times.

It's just not right to generalize and judge on a whole group of people, make insults based on their forum badge or lack thereof. And for the people who think they are being bullied by founders/frees. Read your own comments first and see if they are offensive to the group before whining.

Edited May 2, 2013 by sushidubya

[Eurhetemec]

https://warframe.com/news/welcome-warframe-open-beta

 

 

 

Can't really argue with the devs deciding the game is an AAA title so there's no reason not to compare it to other AAA titles.

 

That does seem rather conclusive.

[Avenwing]

If your crazy hyperbole was true, HoN would be at least as big as LoL right now.

HoN was even worse at balancing their game than Riot is at LoL. Also they had a lot of unfun factors like, last hit your own minions/towers/teamates to prevent the other team from getting gold. Also the graphics were worse.

[Ninjaman999]

This post, and the subsequent good feedback it is recieving kind of makes me feel like a second class citizen, when the game actually invited me to be here, in whatever capacity I felt to help them through thier open beta period. I have given (what I thought) was good, constructive feedback on how I believe the game could get better, what I felt the game lacked, and how I believe they can appeal to a larger playerbase.

 

What is funny is that I never even thought that the people who have invested looked down on those who havent decided yet to the extent that I have learned they do in this post.

Free players are not second class citizens. They are individuals who choose not to reward the developer with their hard earned cash for a game they enjoy playing (Because if you don't enjoy it, you wouldn't be playing)

And we were rewarded for the beta period with vandal weapons so you can't say you weren't rewarded if you were in the beta in time to recieved those weapons.

[Blatantfool]

HoN was even worse at balancing their game than Riot is at LoL. Also they had a lot of unfun factors like, last hit your own minions/towers/teamates to prevent the other team from getting gold. Also the graphics were worse.

 

 

 What actually killed HoN was the fact that it became obsolete. Before DotA2 you had HoN standing as a faithful copycat of DotA. It was made to be a sort of unofficial second DotA game. Valve game along and now DotA2 is a thing though, no point in HoN. 

 

 A lot of people don't consider Denying unfun by the way. I like how I can win a lane in DotA2 with a less powerful hero if I play my cards right and get enough last hits/denies. When you get down to it the feature is perfectly reasonable if your game meets the conditions to need it.

[Blatantfool]

Free players are not second class citizens. They are individuals who choose not to reward the developer with their hard earned cash for a game they enjoy playing (Because if you don't enjoy it, you wouldn't be playing)

And we were rewarded for the beta period with vandal weapons so you can't say you weren't rewarded if you were in the beta in time to recieved those weapons.

 

 It is a pretty poor assumption to decide that a lot of players without a badge have totally opted out of supporting DE.

 

 Whats more - it is also a poor assumption that players who lack the badge lack it because they've outright chosen to opt out. There are many situations that could lead to a player enjoying the game and simply being unable to put money down. You can't possibly know whether or not one poster or another is a Student without money to throw around or if that random guy is currently unemployed and not in a position to spend on games.

 

 

 The list of reasons a player might have decided to not buy a Founder pack is probably a little bigger then the list of reasons people buy the packs.

 

 

 I'm sure DE loves the support from their Founders - but I'm also sure they don't have any expectation that you support them at an inconvenience to yourself.

[Mak_Gohae]

 It is a pretty poor assumption to decide that a lot of players without a badge have totally opted out of supporting DE.

 

 Whats more - it is also a poor assumption that players who lack the badge lack it because they've outright chosen to opt out. There are many situations that could lead to a player enjoying the game and simply being unable to put money down. You can't possibly know whether or not one poster or another is a Student without money to throw around or if that random guy is currently unemployed and not in a position to spend on games.

 

 

 The list of reasons a player might have decided to not buy a Founder pack is probably a little bigger then the list of reasons people buy the packs.

 

 

 I'm sure DE loves the support from their Founders - but I'm also sure they don't have any expectation that you support them at an inconvenience to yourself.

 

Unless i missed something, which i could have, i dont believe his post mentioned anything about a badge.

 

 

 

Again... why is everyone forgetting LoL and DOTA came from someone's garage? You don't get any more "from scratch" than these games. DOTA 2 has some push behind it sure but they paid their dues to get there.

 

Dota 2 has Valve.

LoL has Tencent Holdings Limited giving them half a billion dollars.

TF2 was a paid game before going F2P.

 

Is not a matter of how they started but how they were helped along.

DE has DE and us.

If DE had some Chinese company giving them half a billion buckaroos i'm pretty sure the cash shop would resemble all those games people keep quoting they should copy because they have the capital to have some breathing room.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[MaximumSquid]

I can see the community has gotten slightly worse than when I left to take a break

 

Which is a shame since the game has seen a few small, but nice improvements since then

 

I support this game and even recommended it to a bunch of my friends. . . some who may of even laid down cash for plat

 

Don't expect anything like that from me though. . . you lable a game as free and I'll hold you to it

Edited May 2, 2013 by MaximumSquid

[Blatantfool]

Unless i missed something, which i could have, i dont believe his post mentioned anything about a badge.

 

 The only feature on the forums that would allow you to begin to identify the difference between a person who has and hasn't paid is the following -

 

 

 Do remember to answer in the form of a question.

[Mak_Gohae]

 The only feature on the forums that would allow you to begin to identify the difference between a person who has and hasn't paid is the following -

 

 

 Do remember to answer in the form of a question.

 

But he never said anything about people being identified.

And i was asking if this was part of a longer conversation because that post does not imply what your reply discusses.

[Blatantfool]

But he never said anything about people being identified.

And i was asking if this was part of a longer conversation because that post does not imply what your reply discusses.

 

  I don't think he was implying anything negative. I meant my post to be additive to the idea, not argumentative. I apologize if it read that way. 

[Mak_Gohae]

  I don't think he was implying anything negative. I meant my post to be additive to the idea, not argumentative. I apologize if it read that way. 

 

Ah no, no, no.

It was my wrong idea that everyone was just disagreeing with everyone else.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Mak_Gohae