Streamlining

[Yezzik]

If the Magic PC games have taught me anything, it's that I like it when games handle the fiddly mechanics for me--such as calculating ever-shifting Power and Toughness values and telling me when I'm able to use a card's ability.

But if Hearthstone has taught me anything, it's that I like it better when there aren't fiddly mechanics in the first place. I prefer the stability of Mana Crystals to being Land-starved or the opposite, Secrets to having to interrupt my opponents' turns to cast my Instants, etc.

The removal of ability mods was a good change. No longer is my mod list full of duplicates for a polarity I only have a use for when a new frame is released, and I've found myself using abilities I would previously have ignored in favour of the one or two my builds had room for.

But what else could be streamlined?

Imagine if mods levelled up through use--there wouldn't be a need for Fusion Cores to exist then.

Imagine if resources and mods were just end rewards instead of mid-mission lootables--never again would specific rooms make them unlootable, or the "fifty pickups at once" limit make them despawn.

Imagine if the presumed Starmap revamp Scott alluded to went beyond spreading Prime parts throughout it. Imagine if each node had specific rewards tied to it for the number of times you completed it--Codex scans, resources, mods and even cosmetics--to prompt players to replay every level instead of ramming their faces into the same two tilesets again and again and again.

Imagine if variants such as primes, vandals and duals were cosmetic changes for their base items--by the time we hit Mastery Rank 30, the weapon list in our Arsenal is going to be insane how it is now.

Anyone else got any ideas?

[Verouzer]

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Liminal]

Not having to pick up any drop that isn't ammo would help. (rework Vacuum of course)

[Azawarau]

Interesting thoughts

[tmtke]

Nice, but how would you handle the always expanding content? Levelling up mods via XP is a nice idea, but rewards tied to starmap nodes can be a bit tough because there arent tha't much. And on the same tileset, defense maps will be always the same, all the others are randomly generated, so it's only the matter of tileset and enemy drops what maps we are playing.

[Yezzik]

Nice, but how would you handle the always expanding content? Levelling up mods via XP is a nice idea, but rewards tied to starmap nodes can be a bit tough because there arent tha't much. And on the same tileset, defense maps will be always the same, all the others are randomly generated, so it's only the matter of tileset and enemy drops what maps we are playing.

Probably several mods per node. For example, you get the common mod at X wins, the uncommon one at Y wins and the rare one at Z.

Or perhaps do it per planet instead and require more victories of any mission.

Or have it just for non-endless missions.

[Rexford]

Changes like these would do very screwy things to the current economy as rare mods would become -much- easier to obtain. (Unsure if this is a good or a bad thing, only that it would play havok with the economy) doing such things to the system as it is now would probably result in lower plat purchases as the prices for mods would drop or people would just leave the market entirely if they have a little patience.

 

My take? Awesome if it was true as I could just go out and -work- for the mods I want but then you'd have a -huge- amount of people upset over the amount of fusion cores\resources they pumped into prime\rare 10 mods and those who spent hundreds of plat to buy them.

 

Streamlined? More like pipe dream sadly.

[tmtke]

I'd rather see a system where the drop rarity would depend on the player skill. So if you do a stealth takedown or a headshot (even cumulatively when doing it in a row), the chances would be increased towards the "top" of the drop table. Not insanely, of course, but the game should reward player skill better. Maybe it's just me, who's always having a lot of headshots (can't help it, a habit out of playing a lot of fps'es), but this would also increase the playability of the non-endless game modes.

[Yezzik]

I'm talking something like dozens of runs per specific mod, Rex.

And honestly, if the acquisition of everything was guaranteed directly through gameplay, this game might not even need trading at all.

Then DE could make each mod a unique reward and be safe in the knowledge that players who put the time in were guaranteed to get their Serration or Intensify.

(Not to mention no ability to fuse, sell, transmute or trade mods, which would mean nobody could ever lose their Hornet Strike or Blind Rage)

Obviously the better rewards would take progressively more completions of each mission or missions, perhaps even with Platinum-only purchases available if players were willing to put in a truly ludicrous number of runs.

I suspect having mods level up through gameplay directly would also give us a means of turning wasted Affinity at 30 into something useful.

[NalkorRN]

If the Magic PC games have taught me anything, it's that I like it when games handle the fiddly mechanics for me--such as calculating ever-shifting Power and Toughness values and telling me when I'm able to use a card's ability.

But if Hearthstone has taught me anything, it's that I like it better when there aren't fiddly mechanics in the first place. I prefer the stability of Mana Crystals to being Land-starved or the opposite, Secrets to having to interrupt my opponents' turns to cast my Instants, etc.

The removal of ability mods was a good change. No longer is my mod list full of duplicates for a polarity I only have a use for when a new frame is released, and I've found myself using abilities I would previously have ignored in favour of the one or two my builds had room for.

But what else could be streamlined?

Imagine if mods levelled up through use--there wouldn't be a need for Fusion Cores to exist then.

Imagine if resources and mods were just end rewards instead of mid-mission lootables--never again would specific rooms make them unlootable, or the "fifty pickups at once" limit make them despawn.

Imagine if the presumed Starmap revamp Scott alluded to went beyond spreading Prime parts throughout it. Imagine if each node had specific rewards tied to it for the number of times you completed it--Codex scans, resources, mods and even cosmetics--to prompt players to replay every level instead of ramming their faces into the same two tilesets again and again and again.

Imagine if variants such as primes, vandals and duals were cosmetic changes for their base items--by the time we hit Mastery Rank 30, the weapon list in our Arsenal is going to be insane how it is now.

Anyone else got any ideas?

Do you have any idea how much Void/OD runs would be improved if we didn't get a lame red fusion core at the 20th wave/20 minute mark? A whole freaking lot, which is why I doubt such a thing would happen. Plus, having control over the level of mods makes for more accurate fine-tuning. A max ranked Ammo Stock is useless on a Hek, but not a Kohm.

[Yezzik]

Would we even NEED Void runs? Simply tack on each new Prime part to a different Starmap node as a higher-number-of-completions reward and watch the groups form with the automatic matchmaking.

Imagine that.

[NalkorRN]

Would we even NEED Void runs? Simply tack on each new Prime part to a different Starmap node as a higher-number-of-completions reward and watch the groups form with the automatic matchmaking.

Imagine that.

Could we also include the event-exclusive mods as well for rare drops on Nightmare mode assassination targets? Like for those of us who never got say, Thermite Rounds or Rime Rounds, or the secondary/shotgun equivalents?

 

edit: Allow me to clarify. A lot of builds for maximized damage and such revolve around the dual-stat mods, despite being time-exclusive mods. I keep seeing stuff about endgame and raids and all and it's all obvious what could be done: Star map is your typical solo with some group play. You can manage fine on solo provided you learn the ins and outs, the Void and OD become the harder group content (tweaked builds with frames/weapons that compliment each other) and then for the raids you'd have the return of the Sentients getting ready to kickstart the old war again. You'd get stronger versions of mods from the Void and OD because they would be balanced around those areas and gearing you up for the return of the Sentients, and those maps/enemies would have the next tier of drops to help handle those runs.

 

To anyone who has played Dragon Age: Inquisition, imagine Starmap mods and such as being Tier 1 schematics with a dash of some of the less-optimized Tier 2 schematics. Void would be the Tier 2 schematics with the OD being mostly Tier 2 Superb schematics (In DA:I, those allow more mats to be used, getting you higher stats as a result) and some Tier 3 schematics, closer to endgame stuff. The Sentients would be the Tier 3 Superb schematics, the rarest, strongest, and point per point, best you could get because of just how hard the Sentients would be. I don't mean bloated health and damage, but in terms of actual tactics and AI, if you tried to stay behind cover, they'd use explosive/AoE attacks to try and flush you out, and if you started shooting in their direction, they'd cloak to relocate and flank you, etc.

 

edit 2: Jeez, more ideas keep coming to me, I might have to make my own suggestion thread for all this stuff. Anyway, to expand on the last part, show how strong the Sentient ships are, don't just throw some lines of text in a codex entry, make it an event that becomes a quest (like to unlock the content so to speak) that has a single Sentient ship start decimating numerous Fomorians and you do a trench run in the Archwing to eventually infiltrate the ship itself while it's attacking (transition to an on-foot segment) that introduces you to the new enemies and all that they are capable of.

Edited January 14, 2015 by NalkorRN

[Yezzik]

Sky's the limit. No sense getting rid of the Void, may as well make it part of the Starmap and give it its share of the completion rewards.

If you know there's rewards for you in every tileset, you're far less likely to be bored silly by a single one.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

While I understand where are you coming from, there are a few things that bother me.

1) Mod XP idea would most likely just make more people grind XP (kinda like Syndicates). The other thing is some mods I don't even want to level up further, or I'd like to have multiple copies of with different levels. This might be fixed though by allowing to choose any mod level you've already earned XP for.

 

2) Node thing looks like another grind to me, unless they make each mission type really interesting to play, I don't see myself enjoying running through Spy mission 20 times to get one mod. I still remember that Event they introduced Hive missions in, and I still hate them (Hive Missions) because completing them 30 times in a row wasn't any fun.

 

I think they need to work on gameplay more than making loot/reward mechanic not random. For me if it's interesting to play the game, then I don't care much if I get that Prime weapon part or rare mod or not, I've enjoyed the gameplay and I'm happy. The possible good reward is just a bonus.

[Yezzik]

I see what you mean about Hive missions, but I know full well that given multiple options for the same reward players will pick the easiest.

The balance there would be in determining how many, say, Exterminates are worth a Hive for reward progression.

And Syndicates are another thing. They need presence in the game world outside of alerts and relays. I'd like to see a complete story revamp for the game, with the Syndicates emerging over time--such as the Steel Meridian rising up to protect, say, the colony on Phobos the Grineer tried to hide.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Now, thinking more about it, what might work is adding some score system. So when you do a mission certain actions get you more score, and certain actions subtract your score. For example: Stealth kills, headshots, completing a mission without alert, taking less damage (and more which I can't think of right now) would provide you with score. While raised alarms, lockdowns, death (and probably something else) would subtract your score. When you reach a certain score you get your mod or something. What definitely should not affect your score is speed, because otherwise everyone would just be speedrunning again.

 

There might be even extra multiplier for your conclave rating. The lower your conclave, the more points you get. To motivate people bring their lower gear for easier missions. The only problem is the way conclave working right now, isn't representing your PvE power that much, so another rating probably should be implemented.

 

Another thing needed for it to work well, is adding some random mission tweaks, so if you play Exterminate 5 times, each time would be slightly different (besides the map) I'm not sure what tweaks there might be, but more variation is definitely needed for people to be wanting to complete the same mission over and over and not getting tired of it after 5 times.

[Yezzik]

I like the score idea.

Either way, we could completely remove the much-hated RNG if things like Primes are things you unlock.

[tmtke]

Now, thinking more about it, what might work is adding some score system. So when you do a mission certain actions get you more score, and certain actions subtract your score. For example: Stealth kills, headshots, completing a mission without alert, taking less damage (and more which I can't think of right now) would provide you with score. While raised alarms, lockdowns, death (and probably something else) would subtract your score. When you reach a certain score you get your mod or something. What definitely should not affect your score is speed, because otherwise everyone would just be speedrunning again.

 

...

 

That's basically the same as I said earlier:

 

I'd rather see a system where the drop rarity would depend on the player skill. So if you do a stealth takedown or a headshot (even cumulatively when doing it in a row), the chances would be increased towards the "top" of the drop table. Not insanely, of course, but the game should reward player skill better. Maybe it's just me, who's always having a lot of headshots (can't help it, a habit out of playing a lot of fps'es), but this would also increase the playability of the non-endless game modes.

 

Only the way we put the score is different.

 

Even there can be more, like reviving a fellow player, or for example when using specific frame you'll get additional score for helping the team the way only thet frame can (Trinity, Nova, Mag, Vauban, Frost, etc.).