Excalibur Badly Needs A Rework

[jmforeman02]

I'm confused, you saying that you do like super jump the way it is or that you don't? Whats inconvenient?

[tris1]

super jump is out dated it doesn't need to be removed but it needs a proper buff its outclassed by directional melee and zephyrs first ability while super jump still has the time where you cant do anything.

 

needs to be replaced with a better ability or buffed properly

 

Excalibur builds up force before he jumps as he jumps it knocks all targets over in a radius once he lands he knocks all targets up in the air where they stay for a while.

 

duration: effects the length of time they are knocked over

strength: effects how high the enemy goes in the air so they have time to fall  back down/ and your jump height

range: effects the range of enemies hit

Edited January 25, 2015 by tris1

[RyojinOrion]

 

Excalibur builds up force before he jumps as he jumps it knocks all targets over in a radius once he lands he knocks all targets up in the air where they stay for a while.

 

So an ability you would charge up? I like this idea.

[jmforeman02]

So an ability you would charge up? I like this idea.

 

I don't like it unless it's a VERY quick charge. The main reason it's useful now is as a panic button to escape from a swarm. If you have to charge it up, it could lose that use. I prefer what a guy said in a another forum topic, it should be replaced with something that can temporarily increase  his stats to make him more viable as a melee frame. For example increasing armor, speed, stamina, and eliminating channeling costs for the duration.

Edited January 25, 2015 by jmforeman02

[RyojinOrion]

I don't like it unless it's a VERY quick charge.

 

I was thinking of it as an optional charge, much like bows and how you have to draw arrows fully before you can get the maximum effect from them, but you don't have to draw arrows fully before firing.

 

 

I was a bit distracted at the time of my previous post, so I forgot to mention that.

Edited January 25, 2015 by RyojinOrion

[jmforeman02]

Oh  ok. Well that will work. But it still really needs to be more directional when desired, not just straight up. 

[tris1]

Oh  ok. Well that will work. But it still really needs to be more directional when desired, not just straight up.

It was supposed to be compromise for those that like super jump and those that don't instead of removing the skill totally. I would prefer a new skill like some others as I don't like super jump as it's out dates and inferior to other mobility skills and directional melee.

[GamePois0n]

Super jump seems to be excaliburs only real pointless ability. He could use a new ability that themes with his swordsman theme. Also aside from Oberons arms thickness, in what way is Oberon an abomination?

melee jump is higher than the "super" jump ._.

 

Umm... There is no LoS on Radial Javelin. There's a reason why reputation farms use two excaliburs for damage. I do think rep farms probably make him one of the most used frames ironically.

 

That said, as all damage abilities eventually become useless at high levels, he does not an effectively scaling or utility purpose for many missions since the LoS nerf on his Radial Blind.

yup

after around 15 in T4, javelin doesn't do any damage

Edited January 26, 2015 by GamePois0n

[Thaumatos]

Hit 4 and open a health restore on the spot

Why waste the resources (and time) on pots?  Life Strike costs nothing (outside of a little know-how).

Edited January 26, 2015 by Thaumatos

[Azawarau]

Why waste the resources (and time) on pots?  Life Strike costs nothing (outside of a little know-how).

You said its safer than not using it

 

I was just replying to that

 

If you use a 4 or stun of some kind and throw a restore you can be as safe or safer depending on the situation

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

My problem with Excal is his health and shields are too low and his speed is too slow - makes for a terrible combination when going for hand-to-hand combat.

[RealPandemonium]

My problem with Excal is his health and shields are too low and his speed is too slow - makes for a terrible combination when going for hand-to-hand combat.

 

No warframe is slow when handled properly and slightly higher shields or HP will not drastically change the survivability of a frame, especially when things like QT+Rage exist for melee users anyway.  Excal can use his abilities to avoid damage when he needs to, anyway.  

[jmforeman02]

Qt + Rage is best in people with high armor though. Excalibur's armor is mediocre at best. Plus it's a mod slot expensive defense. QT + Rage + Flow + Steel Fiber for maximum effect. That's far less efficient than just Redirection, or Vitality + Steel Fiber. He really needs an ability that mitigates incoming damage like mesa, mirage, rhino, etc.

[Azawarau]

Qt + Rage is best in people with high armor though. Excalibur's armor is mediocre at best. Plus it's a mod slot expensive defense. QT + Rage + Flow + Steel Fiber for maximum effect. That's far less efficient than just Redirection, or Vitality + Steel Fiber. He really needs an ability that mitigates incoming damage like mesa, mirage, rhino, etc.

As someone who has dabbled in pure melee excalibur i disagree

 

Between SJ and RB he has everything it takes to do well in melee

[Guest ---Excalibur---]

Excalibur abilities are not very convincing except radial blind. Slash Dash only works on low and medium level. Super Jump has very limited use. Radial Blind is risky to use due LoS and Radial Javelin is worthless at high levels.

 

One decent ability is not too much to ask for...

 

Excalibur is my favourite frame though, but it is in a sorry state at the moment.

[tris1]

There are plenty of problems with Excalibur especially his skill set

Slash dash: doesn't scale with damage/only use is mobility/damage is small/no cc/can be damaged while using slash dash. Out classes by rhino charge and tidal surge

Super jump: out classes by tailwind and air strikes which all frames can do. You can't use ability while in the air for a certain time, it's mobility goes up only. It's another mobility which wastes a skill slot. Radial blind will beat this ability. It's stun and invisibility are so lackluster it's one of the worst skills in the game when even parkour can do better at times while also being outclassed by dive bomb. Even obstructed by situations meaning areas you can't jump.

Radial blind now has so many problems

First is that it's Los which is a bad mechanic in a fast paced game. Los only works sometimes meaning I have to blind about 2-3 times to just revive someone because people have just come round a corner or come round a little box. Then the problem when you can see an enemy but they don't get blinded because ther under you or above even though there shooting at you. Moas can still shoot while blinded and grenades can be thrown to kill you still. Then the problem with large groups some enemies still don't get blinded. It's cc has no damage so it's less useful than some cc's that are so much better rhino stomp/chaos. Range mods should not effect this then since it should just blind all targets in sight.

Main problem is that light can reflective or go over and past objects meaning if a grinier was behind a box or round a corner they would still see the light so they should get blinded unless it's a totally isolated area where the door is shut then they won't get blinded

Radial javelin while it has no limited numbers now it's damage is still to small to deal gd damage and the cc is so bad because the stun lasts while your casting and leaves a two second stun to just run away. The casting animation is still to long and your still vulnerable during the cast.

A balanced frame should have

1 mobility/buff

1 defense

1 cc

1 damage

Not 2 mobility no defense a lackluster cc and a rubbish nuke

He's meant to be a melee frame yet I can't get into melee range without being damage by range units or other problems. The shatter shield from Mesa that has damage reduction would fit Excalibur so much better.

[(PSN)batman200087]

Exactly the points said above.Radial Javelins casting animation is slow,and makes me and alot of other Excalibro users vulnerable to be downed.A rework would be nice for my favorite frame Excalibur.

 

 

 

 

(please my black and green excal commands it ;.;

[geninrising]

Let's play fix Excalibur ^^ seriously though he needs work, put these in OP as potential fixes if you have none of your own.

 

These are all my ideas so it's not necessary that you give credit, I just want them in circulation.

 

Excalibur

The first change that I would suggest be implemented is that all of Excalibur's strikes through power use be counted as melee strikes(and thus obtain the damage bonus from melee multiplier). We already know this is a mechanic in game as illustrated by Ash's Blade Storm and I feel this should definitely be an integral part of Ecalibur's kit as he is essentially the melee frame. 

 

Slash Dash 2.0

Excalibur Rushes forward damaging all targets in a 8m wide path adding to his combo counter based on the number of enemies struck(damaging range width is not affected by power range to prevent OP slash dash builds that are immortal, in addition only slash dash has this mechanic, RJ does not). Melee combo counter would increase the damage dealt. This would incentivize players to utilize this ability often and cement Excal's role as the melee frame.

 

Surging Dash 2.0

At the end of Slash Dash Excalibur produces a pulse of energy knocking all targets back from him to a range of 10 meters. Enemies knocked will deal a small amount of physics damage to other enemies also pushing them back to the maximum range(range of the pulse is not affected by power range). Considering the damage dealt would be minimal I see no issue with providing the combo counter damage bonus here as well.

 

 

I feel Super Jump should be removed from Excal's kit entirely and be implemented as a sort of charged jump to every frames kit. Allow players to expend X amount of stamina in order to charge a jump that will increase it's height and speed.

 

Excal's new 3.

Empowered strikes

for 50 energy Excalibur gains double scaling on all additions to his melee combo counter for 20 seconds(affected by duration)in addition Excalibur gains a bonus 20% damage to all melee hits(I thought about adding power str scaling to this as well but thought that with the combined 2x combo multiplier it would be insanely strong, as it stands it would be more than worthwhile to his kit).

 

Augment: Stunning Strikes

While Empowered strikes is active Excalibur's attacks will stun a target for 2 second thus allowing him to allow melee in extremely dangerous situations if tactically applied to high threat targets.

 

Furious Javelin 2.0

Excalibur's javelins now add to his melee combo counter. I thought this would work better in his overall kits presentation rather than the flat damage bonus they give now. The reason for this being that with the new design implication of his powers counting as melee hits and receiving melee damage multiplier it would seem extremely over powered in situations where he had an active combo multiplier and his Empowered Strikes active.

 

Through careful synergetic use of these abilities Excalibur is able to always ensure that his entire kit is viable and truly impactful throughout the entire game.

 

[jmforeman02]

Let's play fix Excalibur ^^ seriously though he needs work, put these in OP as potential fixes if you have none of your own.

 

These are all my ideas so it's not necessary that you give credit, I just want them in circulation.

 

Excalibur

The first change that I would suggest be implemented is that all of Excalibur's strikes through power use be counted as melee strikes(and thus obtain the damage bonus from melee multiplier). We already know this is a mechanic in game as illustrated by Ash's Blade Storm and I feel this should definitely be an integral part of Ecalibur's kit as he is essentially the melee frame. 

 

Slash Dash 2.0

Excalibur Rushes forward damaging all targets in a 8m wide path adding to his combo counter based on the number of enemies struck(damaging range width is not affected by power range to prevent OP slash dash builds that are immortal, in addition only slash dash has this mechanic, RJ does not). Melee combo counter would increase the damage dealt. This would incentivize players to utilize this ability often and cement Excal's role as the melee frame.

 

Surging Dash 2.0

At the end of Slash Dash Excalibur produces a pulse of energy knocking all targets back from him to a range of 10 meters. Enemies knocked will deal a small amount of physics damage to other enemies also pushing them back to the maximum range(range of the pulse is not affected by power range). Considering the damage dealt would be minimal I see no issue with providing the combo counter damage bonus here as well.

 

 

I feel Super Jump should be removed from Excal's kit entirely and be implemented as a sort of charged jump to every frames kit. Allow players to expend X amount of stamina in order to charge a jump that will increase it's height and speed.

 

Excal's new 3.

Empowered strikes

for 50 energy Excalibur gains double scaling on all additions to his melee combo counter for 20 seconds(affected by duration)in addition Excalibur gains a bonus 20% damage to all melee hits(I thought about adding power str scaling to this as well but thought that with the combined 2x combo multiplier it would be insanely strong, as it stands it would be more than worthwhile to his kit).

 

Augment: Stunning Strikes

While Empowered strikes is active Excalibur's attacks will stun a target for 2 second thus allowing him to allow melee in extremely dangerous situations if tactically applied to high threat targets.

 

Furious Javelin 2.0

Excalibur's javelins now add to his melee combo counter. I thought this would work better in his overall kits presentation rather than the flat damage bonus they give now. The reason for this being that with the new design implication of his powers counting as melee hits and receiving melee damage multiplier it would seem extremely over powered in situations where he had an active combo multiplier and his Empowered Strikes active.

 

Through careful synergetic use of these abilities Excalibur is able to always ensure that his entire kit is viable and truly impactful throughout the entire game.

OP here. I mentioned many similar ideas in an edit on the original post before but just removed them today so that they could stand on their own in a post just about a new vision for him, since this post is really about what's wrong with him and why he needs to be changed in the first place. Here's the link to the new post if you wanna check it out: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/391899-excalibur-as-a-proper-melee-framespace-ninja/

[jmforeman02]

Since DE just decided to nerf Excalibur again by making his Radial Javelin LoS, I'm bumping this.

If you want to see what I want to do to Excalibur to fix him, you can look here:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/385680-its-time-for-a-melee-frame-i-vote-we-retrofit-excalibur/?hl=jmforeman02#entry4257662

 

If DE doesn't want to do that then I'd like those ideas put into a new frame like this:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/392264-warframe-concept-vector-the-melee-frame-with-art-update-031615/