Here's How We Remove Serration And (Attempt To) Balance The Game. Damage 2.5 (Designated Megathread)

[Acos]

Serration isn't the only thing that needs a change. Saying "hey look these things need changes too, we should just change nothing" doesn't make any sense. 

 

*sigh*

"Respecting the time and investment every player has put into their Warframes and Loadouts is important to us. Rest assured, when the time comes to make adjustments to damage output it will be more than just a small tweak. Enemy damage, health, armor, and even damage types may be questioned."

Reading is good for you.

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

We can't all have our way all the time, i like things the way they are and people who mandatory put Serration or Heavy caliber on every gun want damage, not a different playstyle

[vaugahn]

people who mandatory put Serration or Heavy caliber on every gun want damage

 

Nobody is saying we should just take away Serration and call it done. Try reading:

 

"Rest assured, when the time comes to make adjustments to damage output it will be more than just a small tweak. Enemy damage, health, armor, and even damage types may be questioned."

 

In fact, that was the whole point of the OP. You'll still have your damage, Serration or no.

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

 

 

In fact, that was the whole point of the OP. You'll still have your damage, Serration or no.

So why the big want to get rid of it? 

[vaugahn]

So why the big want to get rid of it? 

 

Think of it like this: the problem isn't the damage, but the fact that you have to slot that mod to get the damage.

 

I tell it to new players in chat all the time. They ask why their gun sucks, and I say something along the lines of "oh, that gun will suck until you find a specific drop that makes it not suck." Do you see the problem there? 

 

Base stats should not be tied to a modification system. The original intent of the mod system was that you'd be able to customize the behavior of your gun to fit your playstyle. That is not how it works right now. It's essentially a minigame everyone has to play before they can have a functional weapon. Changing that doesn't mean you have to give up your damage, you'll still be able to have damage. In fact, I'd say damage mods like Heavy Caliber should actually stay in the game, as slotting heavy cal is a choice you have to make, unlike slotting Serration.

[ShadowVandal]

I dont want those mods to be removed, what the hell?! i want to be stronger ,why would they remove stuff?? add stuff ! i have nothing left to do ..im almost lvl18 and the only reason im not leveling yet its because im waiting for content to return into the game seriously -_- worst idea ever like all the other nerf going into the game, just buff stuff god damn it and put stronger ennemies, noobs will grind like i did if they wants to be at my side to fight, stop crying and work lazy fu*k.

[Landwalrus]

Just watching the forums people have been begging for mod slots and now that de has mentioned removing seration everyone has jumped down their throats for it. Weapon progression will still make the weapon as powerful as it was fpr everyone arguing the game is to easy with. I honestly just see this as everyone wanting that additional slot to make their builds that much stronger which actually defeats the purpose of this whole argument anyways. Maybe there is is something I'm missing? If so please explain and also leave your thoughts below.

Edit: i guess I just personally see the game as being to easy already and doing this with seration will only make the game easier which isnt fun, so if this happen I'm going to need to run a 2 hour survival for a challenge and I dont want that I would rather take better and more difficult game play over a mod slot personally

The last thing we should do is reduce DPS on weapons.

This game is already an unbearable mob slasher/bullet sponge boss as is.

[ClockworkSpectre]

Seeing that poll was quite dissapointing

Seeing the poll is more enlightening rather than anything.  It kind of shows that the people that want them removed are just far more vocal than those than don't.  I am really surprised that "buff them" even was on the list though. 

 

I for one don't think removing serration and the like is the right solution.  I think alternatives to them should be added, while making those new mods incompatible with the current base damage mods, so you have to pick and choose.  I think that having the rank 10 base damage mods in the game(or alternatives) add a lot to the game besides the damage they add to a weapon.  I also find the argument that they reduce choice nonsense, no matter what changes are made, there will always be builds that are superior and a few mods will always be used, its just human nature. 

 

Think of it like this: the problem isn't the damage, but the fact that you have to slot that mod to get the damage.

 

I tell it to new players in chat all the time. They ask why their gun sucks, and I say something along the lines of "oh, that gun will suck until you find a specific drop that makes it not suck." Do you see the problem there? 

I don't see how this is a problem.  Especially because things like serration and hornet strike aren't hard to get.  I do see a problem with just giving players a weapon that is at its full power as soon as its leveled, its just far too easy. 

[Taranis49]

So why the big want to get rid of it? 

 

Because it's mandatory, which kinda defeats the purpose of it being a mod in the first place - I'll give you DE's own mission statement on the matter:

 

"Our goal is to avoid having a single dominant weapon, build, mod configuration..." - from the Community Hot Topics thread in August of 2013, the same one that spawned Damage 2.0.

 

That mission? It's mutually exclusive when certain mods aren't just better than the alternatives, they're required. According to their own mission statement for the game, "mandatory mods" are basically an oxymoron.

[swihart91]

The last thing we should do is reduce DPS on weapons.

This game is already an unbearable mob slasher/bullet sponge boss as is.

According to the community or it's popular opinion the seration will be passive as the weapon levels which in tirn frees up a mod slot which makes this game easier and i personally dont want that

[vaugahn]

So multi shot isnt going to take its place as being mandatory? really ypu believe that also as i have syated before almost all mobas or mmos have equipment that is pretty much mandoatory this isnt some new problem that popped up in this game it is a ncessary evil I don't get why this community is all up in arms about it lately

 

Not necessarily. If serration is removed, those other mods have to change too. Did they not say they wouldn't just dump serration and call it a day?

 

Look at multishot for Archwing. Slotting that mod is an actual choice, not mandatory. Would you rather have a chance at double damage, or a smaller damage increase on every shot? That's something players get to choose, because neither one is the right answer. 

 

Making something in a customization system mandatory goes against the entire point of a customization system. And no, most MMO's and MOBA's don't have mandatory gear in their customization system. I still see people bickering in LoL about whether Blade of the Ruined King or Bloodthirster is a better choice. The idea is that the meta build is (essentially) no better than a random build, just different. 

[xRufus7x]

I dont want those mods to be removed, what the hell?! i want to be stronger ,why would they remove stuff?? add stuff ! i have nothing left to do ..im almost lvl18 and the only reason im not leveling yet its because im waiting for content to return into the game seriously -_- worst idea ever like all the other nerf going into the game, just buff stuff god damn it and put stronger ennemies, noobs will grind like i did if they wants to be at my side to fight, stop crying and work lazy fu*k.

It has nothing to do with grinding. This seems to be a popular misconception. I have two serrations that I maxed and two heavy calibers. In an ideal world no mod would be required on every weapon all of the time. This is what we like to call build diversity. Warframe currently is not good at this, but DE as well as many of the players would like to see this improved. This is what the discussion is about.

 

Besides, if Serration were to go, it is hardly the end of the high capacity mod. DE is constantly introducing higher capacity ones.

Edited January 19, 2015 by xRufus7x

[GildedTuna]

If you get rid of serration another staple mod will fill its place. Simple as that. There will ALWAYS be optimized builds or builds that are critiqued to near perfection.

[swihart91]

Not necessarily. If serration is removed, those other mods have to change too. Did they not say they wouldn't just dump serration and call it a day?

Look at multishot for Archwing. Slotting that mod is an actual choice, not mandatory. Would you rather have a chance at double damage, or a smaller damage increase on every shot? That's something players get to choose, because neither one is the right answer.

Making something in a customization system mandatory goes against the entire point of a customization system. And no, most MMO's and MOBA's don't have mandatory gear in their customization system. I still see people bickering in LoL about whether Blade of the Ruined King or Bloodthirster is a better choice. The idea is that the meta build is (essentially) no better than a random build, just different.

I mean the real moba dota haha jk most carries in that game have a set build that only changes if the items properties are changed but the point I'm trying to male are some things are just necessary for you to have in games and if they just change serration to a passive like most people want them to they will need to revamp most damage mods, it isn't a large enough problem in the game to qualify the uproar the community has had about it lately. Like I said I would take more difficult enemies at higher toers with better gameplay over damage 3.0 first if that ever happens and that is why it feels to me like people just want a mod slot they aren't looking at the big picture of what needs done or how much focusbthis will take when other aspects need worked on much more than this Edited January 19, 2015 by swihart91

[GRlMGOR]

... and really? Why not Heavy Cal, Magnum Force, Spoiled Strike?

Because when the others have gone people will just slap those on.

 

 

Heavy Cal only good on some weapons as it effects the accuracy.

Magnum Force i dont think is useful on any weapon.

Spoiled Strike is the same as Heavy Cal only good on some weapons with fast attack speed.

[(PSN)jwernecke]

Serration, Point Blank, Primed Point Blank, Pressure Point, Blaze, Hornet Strike.

Multishot mods, those are just straight damage really, get rid of them.

... and really? Why not Heavy Cal, Magnum Force, Spoiled Strike?

Because when the others have gone people will just slap those on.

 

Hey, Charged Chamber and Primed Chamber are essential on the Vectis, let's remove those as well.

 

Yup, let's remove it all and start again (again).

I totally agree with this.  I mean where do we stop?  Serration is the anti-christ but heavy caliber is okay?  Blaze? Blind Rage? Transient Fortitude? Intensify.....all Straight Damage mods.....Buzz Kill and Jagged Edge....2 very high slash damage mods seems OP to me....Lethal Momentum....now my Despair are near hit scan....trust me it is OP....and I LOVE IT!  Punch Through mechanic....I shoot enemies through the blast doors of a ship....heck I throw Despair through those blast doors....Tenno must have been great quarterbacks....  Ammo Drum gives my Soma Prime over 1000 rounds very OP.....I ask again where does it stop?

[vaugahn]

I mean the real moba dota haha jk most carries in that game have a set build that only changes if the items properties are changed but the point I'm trying to male are some things are just necessary for you to have in games and if they just change serration to a passive like most people want them to they will need to revamp most damage mods, it isn't a large enough problem in the game to qualify the uproar the community has had about it lately. Like I said I would take more difficult enemies at higher toers with better gameplay over damage 3.0 first if that ever happens

 

I believe the uproar is because Serration itself totally goes against the goals they set for the mod system, and the ideas they were batting around before damage 2.0 came out. The whole point of those systems was that there would be no rainbow build and no one best mod, but we currently have both of those things in serration. Even for carries in LoL, there's still a lot of build variation within that role. We essentially have one build for everything.

 

Not to mention, removing it would make creating enemy difficulty a lot easier.

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

No one's forcing you have serration on your weapon, that's your choice. Sure, you'll be missing damage but still, that's your choice

[GildedTuna]

I totally agree with this.  I mean where do we stop?  Serration is the anti-christ but heavy caliber is okay?  Blaze? Blind Rage? Transient Fortitude? Intensify.....all Straight Damage mods.....Buzz Kill and Jagged Edge....2 very high slash damage mods seems OP to me....Lethal Momentum....now my Despair are near hit scan....trust me it is OP....and I LOVE IT!  Punch Through mechanic....I shoot enemies through the blast doors of a ship....heck I throw Despair through those blast doors....Tenno must have been great quarterbacks....  Ammo Drum gives my Soma Prime over 1000 rounds very OP.....I ask again where does it stop?

Thats the thing right now, Alot of these complainers want an innate serration built into the weapon. Lets just think what happens. You free up a mod slot, still get serrations effect and now you can do even more damage? These people are going 100% greedy milk thinking about all the legendary cores they can get and how much stronger and easier the game will become. Then to the people complaining about how "Serration is a staple mod in any build". If you get rid of serration just another mod will become that staple mod in a build. There will ALWAYS be a max/minned meta in this game. This one just happens to have a Rank 10 Mod a good amount of people aren't able to max, and that just makes them salty so they complain.

Edited January 19, 2015 by LuxLo

[vaugahn]

No one's forcing you have serration on your weapon, that's your choice. Sure, you'll be missing damage but still, that's your choice

 

haha, no

 

Don't even start with that. Everyone knows it's not true. Go ahead, without serration you'll be dealing crap damage even on the star chart. With the way enemies scale up, you need it. Serration is not a choice, not outside of the starter planets.

[swihart91]

I believe the uproar is because Serration itself totally goes against the goals they set for the mod system, and the ideas they were batting around before damage 2.0 came out. The whole point of those systems was that there would be no rainbow build and no one best mod, but we currently have both of those things in serration. Even for carries in LoL, there's still a lot of build variation within that role. We essentially have one build for everything.

Not to mention, removing it would make creating enemy difficulty a lot easier.

But that's just it people want seration as a passive that lvls up with the weapon not to make it disappear that's why I am saying people just want the mod slot and so many people have jumped on this ban wagon just to get it Edited January 19, 2015 by swihart91

[vaugahn]

Thats the thing right now, Alot of these complainers want an innate serration built into the weapon. Lets just think what happens. You free up a mod slot, still get serrations effect and now you can do even more damage? These people are going 100% greedy milk thinking about all the legendary cores they can get and how much stronger and easier the game will become. Then to the people complaining about how "Serration is a staple mod in any build". If you get rid of serration just another mod will become that staple mod in a build. There will ALWAYS be a max/minned meta in this game. This one just happens to have a Rank 10 Mod a good amount of people aren't able to max, and that just makes them salty so they complain.

 

Ever heard of a strawman?

[vaugahn]

But that's just it people want seration as a passive that lvls up with the weapon not to make it disappear that's why I am saying people just want the mod slot and so many people have jumped on this ban wagon just to get it

 

You really think DE isn't smart enough to know that just because people want something doesn't mean it's right for the game?

 

And don't forget that people are asking for a lot of other things too. Many of the people who want damage tied to rank also want a total overhaul of the mod system.

[swihart91]

I know but the issue isnt huge and game breaking imho much more should be worked on before they balance a new damage system

[Demon-King-Lamb]

If they remove damage mods cause players are building too OP builds with them. Then might aswell quit the game. Seeing if you do anything better than expected, it's going to be removed.

 

Main reason why I quite playing Mass Effect 3 multiplayer because of all the nerfs to good weapons. And Buffs to enemies to make things impossible for new players.