Ironlixivium Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I like the idea Tsoe put out there. Give the proto skin all the buffs that you will be given to prime maybe a small% higher as the proto skin came first and would be more in line with lore to be more powerful than the prime, yet has no polarities as base. Then everyone would be able to enjoy excal without the feeling that you could only get a watered down version. The founders get an excal buff over the normal version, however there is still the achievable in-game variant that is better ( as i am sure that most people would agree that in a f2p game having the best version of an item, even if by only 1 hp only accessible via a payment would seem out of character for the spirit in which these games are marketed.) Still has problems...like the original arcane problems; to get better stats, you were locked into a specific look. Also, the proto excal skin is only one day a year and giving it better stats would be a massive violation of DE's "game is free, quality is not" system and make it p2w. The only way I can see this kind of thing working is adding an "excal powerup core" to the droptables or something, that can be installed on your excal to give it the stat boosts of excal prime. Attaching the buffs to the proto skin would not only make it lock you into a certain look, but also lock them behind a paywall AND make it exclusive to one day a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelisImpurrator Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Hm. Actually... now that I think about it, there are still issues with the Proto route. Namely - yes, availability is a thing. Besides that, Proto Excal is sold for platinum, not in the same way as Void Trader items that people can farm for without the use of peripheral functions (because trade chat should always be considered extraneous to "standard" gameplay). Now that might cause issues, more so than Nemesis Nyx (Nyx Prime already exists, she has bling and buffs, Nyx isn't missing anything). Making it a Void Trader item, whatever form it takes (Prisma/Dragon Warframe, Prisma skin, or whatever else) - would still probably be the preferred distribution method for such a thing if it were to exist. But, either way, my bottom line is statistical parity for this scenario. EDIT: I've been Tenno'd. Some sort of farmable powerup (or, again, buyable from Baro Kitty) could work. Like a potato, but for stats and only works on Excal. I'm sure there's some way to spin this lore-wise. Edited June 10, 2015 by FelisImpurrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30mg Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hm. Actually... now that I think about it, there are still issues with the Proto route. Namely - yes, availability is a thing. Besides that, Proto Excal is sold for platinum, not in the same way as Void Trader items that people can farm for without the use of peripheral functions (because trade chat should always be considered extraneous to "standard" gameplay). Now that might cause issues, more so than Nemesis Nyx (Nyx Prime already exists, she has bling and buffs, Nyx isn't missing anything). Making it a Void Trader item, whatever form it takes (Prisma/Dragon Warframe, Prisma skin, or whatever else) - would still probably be the preferred distribution method for such a thing if it were to exist. But, either way, my bottom line is statistical parity for this scenario. This seems to me like a reasonable way to implement parity between the frames. however would this be a frame in terms of needing a slot and reactor or just a skin? If it were to be a full frame it would also resolve the potential issue that the proto idea has in that other skins could not be used on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 If you would read my post after this you would see that it was a suggestion and also really another discussion on something to be determined. Suggestion on something and flat out saying it HAS to be done are very different. I am entirely happy to continue discussing this issue but please do not use pejorative terms like salt as it does not aid the discussion to insult people with different opinions. Being rude and saying "Are you reading a different thread" doesn't help the discussion either. If you don't want to be misunderstood, be clearer. Still has problems...like the original arcane problems; to get better stats, you were locked into a specific look. Also, the proto excal skin is only one day a year and giving it better stats would be a massive violation of DE's "game is free, quality is not" system and make it p2w. The only way I can see this kind of thing working is adding an "excal powerup core" to the droptables or something, that can be installed on your excal to give it the stat boosts of excal prime. Attaching the buffs to the proto skin would not only make it lock you into a certain look, but also lock them behind a paywall AND make it exclusive to one day a year. But again, the problem with that is that the community would want the exact same treatment for the other 'frames, all 20 something of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironlixivium Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 But again, the problem with that is that the community would want the exact same treatment for the other 'frames, all 20 something of them. Hm, yeah. At least it's not enough to rage over? I think we're at the point right now that the paper's gonna get wrinkled, so to speak. The best thing we can do is find the best possible path. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hm, yeah. At least it's not enough to rage over? I think we're at the point right now that the paper's gonna get wrinkled, so to speak. The best thing we can do is find the best possible path. :/ I agree. Having Proto Excal giving the same stats as Excal Prime might be the only solution. It's existence is supported by lore and having those stat changes carry over make sense. And on the plus side, ties Dark Sector further into Warframe back story. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwiftPotato12 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 This thread is a very, very bad idea. Excalibur Prime threads only lead to hate. Why? Because people that weren't here to support DE feel entitled? That's no-one's fault but their own. Excalibur Prime was like a thank you card for founders who kept Warframe afloat early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelisImpurrator Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) But again, the problem with that is that the community would want the exact same treatment for the other 'frames, all 20 something of them. Once more I would like to propose the suggestion that it doesn't particularly matter, because that argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. If you want to power up any other frame, get its Prime separately and rank it. Done deal. If you want to power up Excal, since you can't do that with him, you get a chunk of extra special Orokin space potato magic and do it that way. If anyone complains about said magic space potato not growing a void key on their Excal's face, even after getting the stats and the void orb boost - clearly there's no reason for anyone to listen to them, and their complaints would quickly fade into the ether like every other completely pointless complaint thread. I'm pretty sure most players would be more concerned with the stats than the looks, anyway. Edited June 10, 2015 by FelisImpurrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malikon Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Also - most F2P games do that because most F2P games are also P2W crap. Since Warframe isn't, there's no reason why it should follow anything remotely close to the same formula. I think you misinterpreted my post. I was responding to the gentleman's statement "( as i am sure that most people would agree that in a f2p game having the best version of an item, even if by only 1 hp only accessible via a payment would seem out of character for the spirit in which these games are marketed.)" by mentioning that is not how the majority of F2P games work. I merely understood his entire statement as trying to capitolize on the fact that there was something that could be deemed as as a middle ground by trying to rationalize that the "middle ground" (Proto Excal) should be better than than the others. Edited June 10, 2015 by Malikon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Once more I would like to propose the suggestion that it doesn't particularly matter, because that argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. If you want to power up any other frame, get its Prime separately and rank it. Done deal. If you want to power up Excal, since you can't do that with him, you get a chunk of extra special Orokin space potato magic and do it that way. If anyone complains about said magic space potato not growing a void key on their Excal's face, even after getting the stats and the void orb boost - clearly there's no reason for anyone to listen to them, and their complaints would quickly fade into the ether like every other completely pointless complaint thread. But how would you tie it into the lore? I know a lot of people don't care about the lore but to me it's important, it's how everything ties together and the reason I'm more interested in having the Proto Excal skin being a stat changer. (Not saying you are not interested in Lore, Felis, just a general statement.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Once more I would like to propose the suggestion that it doesn't particularly matter, because that argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. If you want to power up any other frame, get its Prime separately and rank it. Done deal. If you want to power up Excal, since you can't do that with him, you get a chunk of extra special Orokin space potato magic and do it that way. If anyone complains about said magic space potato not growing a void key on their Excal's face, even after getting the stats and the void orb boost - clearly there's no reason for anyone to listen to them, and their complaints would quickly fade into the ether like every other completely pointless complaint thread. I'm pretty sure most players would be more concerned with the stats than the looks, anyway. I don't think you play Warframe that often if you think that. Also, they shouldn't get a buff because they can't get Excalibur Prime, a reward for supporting the game when they weren't sure the game itself was going to make it. IT should get a buff because it needs a buff, no other reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Legolegend144 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Why? Because people that weren't here to support DE feel entitled? That's no-one's fault but their own. Excalibur Prime was like a thank you card for founders who kept Warframe afloat early on. Now, no need to be hostile. I was just making an observation based on past experiences. This idea has been thrown around for a while now, and it tends to create undue hostility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Now, no need to be hostile. I was just making an observation based on past experiences. This idea has been thrown around for a while now, and it tends to create undue hostility. Hi Lego! Things seem to be pretty civil around here for the most part, I think things are going well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Legolegend144 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hi Lego! Things seem to be pretty civil around here for the most part, I think things are going well. That's good. Keep in mind, I made that post 5 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30mg Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I do see an issue with the Proto idea. What happens when people want to use different skins? would a new frame with a slot and reactor be the way to resolve this issue as proposed in felisimpurrator post as a purchase from from Daro. This may also help Founders if such a side grade comes into being in the future that they will be able to use their prime skin on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malikon Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 But how would you tie it into the lore? I know a lot of people don't care about the lore but to me it's important, it's how everything ties together and the reason I'm more interested in having the Proto Excal skin being a stat changer. (Not saying you are not interested in Lore, Felis, just a general statement.) Tenno dont normally talk aloud, nor are fingerprints or specifically DNA likely to be readily available to tell Tenno apart due to armor (techno-organic suits will do that, plus theres a subsect of lore that suggests we're energy beings? lol?). It is possible that there is a module in each warframe that monitors and serves as an ident modules. The magic Orokin space potato that Felis mentioned could be a rebuilt module from an old Excalibur Prime which would *incorrectly* identify the warframe as a Prime to itself (explaining the polarity/stat differences) and to interacting devices (death orbs). Just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) That's good. Keep in mind, I made that post 5 months ago. Oh wow, you're right. I do see an issue with the Proto idea. What happens when people want to use different skins? would a new frame with a slot and reactor be the way to resolve this issue as proposed in felisimpurrator post as a purchase from from Daro. This may also help Founders if such a side grade comes into being in the future that they will be able to use their prime skin on it. The problem with simply adding a whole new 'frame is that Excal Prime is still out of reach and there are people that just wont accept that. But again, how would having a third Excal tie into the lore? I think I mentioned in another thread that it would be a neat concept to have an Excal that was experimented on and changed but somehow the Grineer/Corpus/Infested/Santa/Sentiants destroyed the facility along with it's research and mad scientists. It'd tie in the third Excal lore-wise... Tenno dont normally talk aloud, nor are fingerprints or specifically DNA likely to be readily available to tell Tenno apart due to armor (techno-organic suits will do that, plus theres a subsect of lore that suggests we're energy beings? lol?). It is possible that there is a module in each warframe that monitors and serves as an ident modules. The magic Orokin space potato that Felis mentioned could be a rebuilt module from an old Excalibur Prime which would *incorrectly* identify the warframe as a Prime to itself (explaining the polarity/stat differences) and to interacting devices (death orbs). Just an idea. So basically, its the thing that makes all Primes "Prime"? But with waht we know now, the regular 'frames are copies of the Primes, it's not a special Orokin Void battery. To put that in place, DE would have to retcon the entire Prime creation lore. Edited June 10, 2015 by Noamuth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malikon Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Not meaning a thing that makes a Prime "prime". Just an identity module specifically from an Excalibur Prime that could be retrofitted to confuse a normal Excalibur and surrounding objects into believing that its something that it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30mg Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Not meaning a thing that makes a Prime "prime". Just an identity module specifically from an Excalibur Prime that could be retrofitted to confuse a normal Excalibur and surrounding objects into believing that its something that it is not. what would you propose be used to achieve this. I my opinion an entire built prime frame would seem fair what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malikon Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 what would you propose be used to achieve this. I my opinion an entire built prime frame would seem fair what do you think? What do you mean? Are you asking if I think said ident module be installed in an already existing Excalibur, or if there needs to be an Excalibur specifically built for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I don't think non-founders should get anything if Excalibur Prime gets buffed. WHat did we do to deserve it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malikon Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I dunno, hell, I dont even know what I did to deserve Excal Prime. But at this point, people are being civil and I'm not being treated like a second class citizen because I have one, so I am behaving in kind and entertaining the idea of a compromise that could destroy any footing that anyone could possibly have for Excal P hatred in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30mg Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 What do you mean? Are you asking if I think said ident module be installed in an already existing Excalibur, or if there needs to be an Excalibur specifically built for it? Just thinking about components to build such a thing would be as it is to help in the void or mask as a prime a prime set seems like a fair price to pay to put that ability on a frame. what is your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malikon Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Just thinking about components to build such a thing would be as it is to help in the void or mask as a prime a prime set seems like a fair price to pay to put that ability on a frame. what is your opinion? Dreadfully sorry, but I really cannot interpret your words into a meaningful question. Unsure if I'm having literacy problems today or just not enough coffee yet. Can you rephrase it as if you were talking to a child so I can have a better chance at figuring out what you're asking me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30mg Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Dreadfully sorry, but I really cannot interpret your words into a meaningful question. Unsure if I'm having literacy problems today or just not enough coffee yet. Can you rephrase it as if you were talking to a child so I can have a better chance at figuring out what you're asking me? If such an item " identity module" were to be available. To craft it do you think a prime frame would be a fitting component cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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