New Hek Buff, Redemption?

[Feldgrep]

So what do you guys thing? Is the new buff for the hek make up for the nerf? Or is it still bad?

[Trost]

It wasnt bad even after the "nerf". You are funny.

[Zarrii]

Pretty sure the new Redemption mod is a mod for frames. I think it shocks people that shoot you, % chance.

[Adagio]

So what do you guys thing? Is the new buff for the hek make up for the nerf? Or is it still bad?

think ?

[Zarrii]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/39257-retribution-mod/

 

Here you go.

[Amistyrja]

I'm pretty sure he's not talking about the Retribution mod. I think he's asking if the fix for the Hek is redemption for its silly nerf.

[Adagio]

wait wait, what was the title means,

" New Hek Buff, Redemption? "

 

was the OP asking the recent buff for Hek is a Redemption for the said weapon ?
or was the OP mistook the Redemption as a mod for Hek ?

or was it Zarrii whose mistakenly taking Redemption for Retribution ?

Edited May 4, 2013 by Adagio

[Amistyrja]

wait wait, what was the title means,

" New Hek Buff, Redemption? "

 

was the OP asking the recent buff for Hek is a Redemption for the said weapon ?

or was the OP mistook the Redemption as a mod for Hek ?

or was it Zarrii whose mistakenly taking Redemption for Retribution ?

Yes

No

Yes

[Feynt]

Playing with a friend who had experienced the old, nerfed, then rebalanced Heks, he says it's significantly better than the nerf but not quite as bad as the old version.  Damage drop off is much less significant over distance now, which makes shotguns more viable again, and still allows the Hek to be a mid/long range shotgun.  We both agree that the Hek needs a little more rebalancing to bring it into that "short to mid range" area rather than letting it be a sniper shotgun, but it's a lot closer.

 

Addendum:

This in no way supports the idea that distance should reduce damage of each shot that connects.  But it does champion the idea of less shots hitting at long range to bring the damage down.  I've suggested in another thread after the nerf, just retain the spread as normal but reduce the shots put out.  It's a 4 chamber shotgun, make it shoot 4 or 8 pellets with a decent spread.  It'll be a really consistent weapon up close with those strong hits, but fall off greatly due to inaccuracy over range.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Feynt

[smithf]

Basically, if you open fire with the shotguns in the face all the time, then you won't be affected by the nerf at all.

The intent of the nerf was to prevent the unrealistic "shotgun sniping", which I kinda agree (I am Hek user btw).

 

The nerf could be intentionally severe the first time round, so that the dev and judge and tweak. (as fall off damage is first introduced that update iirc). Also, it will be more acceptable to nerf then rebuff than just to nerf (slightly) the first time, even if end results are the same.

It could be a programmer thing... when tweaking numbers, we usually double or half the number, to exaggerate the differenes, so that it is easier to tweak later (and also to reduce number of tweak iterations).

 

But I kinda hope that the firearms gain more non numeric characteristics than just damage. E.g. even if the shotguns are not rebuffed in damage, could be good if the shotguns can throwback lighter enemies (even if they are not killed), making it a CC weapon as well.

[Feldgrep]

-_- ok so probably not the best choice of words. I was asking if the new hek buff made up for the nerf.

[MoonicusMaximus]

-_- ok so probably not the best choice of words. I was asking if the new hek buff made up for the nerf.

 

Does it make the Hek more effective? Yes.

Does it return it to the previous state of broken/OP? No.

Is this new state post-buff broken/OP? Remains to be seen.

[Amistyrja]

Just got the Hek. It seems fairly decent, performs well enough at my comfortable shooting range that I put a potato on it.

[SnokyoDrift]

The intent of the nerf was to prevent the unrealistic "shotgun sniping", which I kinda agree (I am Hek user btw).

 

I don't disagree with your post, but this isn't the best choice of word. Shotguns in real life are perfectly capable of landing 70% of their pellets at 75-100 metres. This would make things unbalanced, or reduce variety (who wants a shotgun that takes 3+ hits to kill?), so many video games pretend that shotguns are close ranged weapons.

 

The same thing happened to LMGs, which literally have sniper level accuracy and damage in real life (See BMG .50). For balance reasons, something with a huge magazine cannot have the best accuracy, damage and rate of fire in the game.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Tryysaeder

[Belpharon]

I don't disagree with your post, but this isn't the best choice of word. Shotguns in real life are perfectly capable of landing 70% of their pellets at 75-100 metres. This would make things unbalanced, or reduce variety (who wants a shotgun that takes 3+ hits to kill?), so many video games pretend that shotguns are close ranged weapons.

 

The same thing happened to LMGs, which literally have sniper level accuracy and damage in real life (See BMG .50). For balance reasons, something with a huge magazine cannot have the best accuracy, damage and rate of fire in the game.

 

 

 

I somwhat get a kick out of this. Sure a full choke 10ga shot gun can put enough pellets into a turkey or goose at 50+ yards to kill it but your forgetting that it is throwing fairly small, light weight pellets. Also it only takes one pellet hitting to kill a bird. 00 Buckshot on the other hand, the mankiller with stopping power, is a much heavier shot and I can guarentee you it isn't going to be super effective past around 25 yards, not if you expect to hit with all pellets. With buckshot you would be lucky to hit with 2-3 pellets (out of up to 12-18 commonly found in buckshot) at 50 yards and past that only luck would put any on target.

 

As far as LMGs....Haha.  Sure they technically use similar rounds to the Sniper Rifles but what you don't realize is that it is mostly the rifle that makes the round accurate, not the round itself.    7.62mm  or 12.7mm (50 cal) rounds out of a sniper rifle can easily hit 500m sub MOA (minute of angle).  Out of a Machine Gun....you can spray and hit a man at 500mm but probably 80% will miss the target.

 

(Ex-Army Infantry by the way).

Edited May 4, 2013 by Belpharon

[LazyTemplar]

The M2 Browning (.50 BMG) was used to great effect as a sniper rifle.  Granted it's not really a LMG, but to say machine guns can't be accurate is... er... inaccurate.  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning#M2_as_a_sniper_rifle

[ValhaHazred]

Machine guns are very accurate when braced and prone. Hip firing is another story entirely.

[Eldorian]

Talking about the accuracy and range of shotguns in real life is meaningless, as I'm fairly certain that the weapons, shields and armor used in warframe aren't gear that exactly parallels when compared to modern gear.  Also note that shotguns aren't exactly a staple of military weaponry.

[Keltik0ne]

It's also worth noting, that a solid slug fired from a shotgun is accurate beyond 200m.

 

Anyone talking about how "unrealistic" shotguns were in this game needs to see how overpowered game bolter weaponary is compared to its real life version. No wait, a scifi game you say ?

 

Claim balance if you wish, but don't spout off about realism please.