[Ooc/q&a/recruiting]The Setup, Redux & The Lounge

[IceDragonofAmber]

*Pours salt into salt glands you now have due to non-logical bullsh!t*

[Rehtael7]

So you're here to complain about the now-accepted canon to people who are enjoying it.

Okay...?

[IceDragonofAmber]

That's not what happened at all. Exotern asked what happened during update 18. I informed him while giving my negative opinion of it. Space then began a short argument with me about my view on the update followed by you when you initiated your argument against me.

The only time I complained was in the one post towards Exotern and even that wasn't direct.

[Ghost333]

*Pours salt into salt glands you now have due to non-logical bullsh!t*

YOU CANNON NON-LOGIC ME

I AM THE NON-LOGIC

-You suddenly turn into a piano-shaped dog. Except the dog is, in fact, a piano-

[Aegia-]

I just hope everyone realizes how useless two of the Warframe quests are now that we have essentially been reduced to children sitting in a space recliner.

 

Mirage Quest? AN entire @(*()$ plot hole because the Lotus is for some reason getting overemotional about a suit of armor being torn apart by Sentients. I'd really like to see someone try and explain that to me in a way that's not grasping at straws. And no, it's not because the Operator and the frame are linked to the point that if one dies, so does the other, because that doesn't happen. The Orokin don't do that sort of thing when you're fighting a war. You make a bunch of replaceable frames and let the genocidal children control them. One gets ripped to shreds? Just give them a new one.

 

Limbo Theorem? Same thing. "Original Limbo is dead" my !. He's sitting in a space chair somewhere out in space, and his favorite Warframe or whatever is gone. Oh no whatever will I do, this is so emotional and tragic.

 

DE should really try and read their own lore sometimes.

Ever pay attention to what Steve said regarding the reveal? That "they took this approach because the Tenno in Warframe was unoriginal and boring"

That tells me that they seem to only be doing it because they wanted to be different.

Space marine trope might be common, but there's a reason for that. It's just a slap in the face of people that want meaningful roleplay.

 

In short, I've already put in my two cents, and why yes, I AM mad. It's the last thing I'll say about it.

 

By the way, Space explicitly stated there was no bar, but a canteen, and very little to no alcohol is on the waystation.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Starnsy_Warnsy

[IceDragonofAmber]

Look at yourself now back to back to yourself now back to me but it isn't me its a dog but it could be a piano if it dogged the pianos piano dogs.

[XionicoRX]

Nukes, piano dogs, U18, what more unicorn frame which is controlled by a kubrow.

[Ghost333]

*Evil grin*
NEW OOC QUESTION
In light of the recent things that the most vocal of us think is bullS#&$:

In lieu of the Zariman children, what would you replace the Operator with? Go crazy gents, there's no limits. Replace them with a sex toy if you honestly want to.

 

Umbra

He doesn't have an operator in the first place, since he is a guy who was in a suit, had the suit fused to him and then became a ro-CYBERNETIC ORGANISM, PUT THE GUN DOWN MAN. *ahem* But if he honestly was replaced by something else, it'd be a Sand Skate wearing a horse mask. Yes.

[IceDragonofAmber]

Well my personal theory on what the Tenno were before U18 was that they were people infected with Technocyte before being thrown into the void where they were further mutated by the Void's radiation. This would result in barely recognisable horribly mutated humans that were able to alter their body shape and size in order to fit within any frame.

This would solve the mono-Tenno problem and something that has yet to be explained. With a region where our laws of physics don't apply there has to have been many more ships lost within the Warp Void than just the Zariman ship. What made the people of that ship so different to everyone else?

Other than that I was just happy with what this thread had before this fiasco.

[Owlrrex]

NEW OOC QUESTION

In light of the recent things that the most vocal of us think is bullS#&$:

In lieu of the Zariman children, what would you replace the Operator with? Go crazy gents, there's no limits. Replace them with a sex toy if you honestly want to.

Although I have no problems with U18 (Souna's adaption is in the making), but I think I could really boost her original backstory's drama if her operator was my old OC, Val, who developed into Souna. In that case, that OC would return into current time and spook her in quite a literal manner. :> I like tormenting my characters with unattainable goals and irresolvable dilemmas.

[SpaceHelicopters]

You see, that's the reason I was afraid of this argument: your anger at the subject transitioned and became anger at each other.

 

Debate is fun; it's about as close to a fight as you can get without anyone getting physically hurt, and it forces both you and your opponent to stretch the old brain muscle and pose logical arguments. Arguing is a part of human nature, and it's one I'm rather fond of.

 

But here's the real kicker; as much as I want to say enough's enough, this subject is just too damn good to put down. It's been awhile since I've had to do this much in-depth analysis on a subject, and I'm so excited about my incoming counter-argument that my fingers are jittery and a permanent grin is plastered on my face. My mouth hurts.

 

I really, really want to continue this discussion because I think it's good for both sides; I've never been more excited and I believe the others (though correct me if I'm wrong) are getting to relieve some pent up aggression and vent. Now, if things get out of hand again, I'll bite my tongue and end it, so I know how difficult it can be, but try to keep your emotions in check, boyos. Remember, you can be angry at the subject, just don't direct that anger at each other. If you feel your getting a little too emotional, just take a step back and breathe, try to remove your initial bias, and instead of just lashing out, take a moment to understand it before you counter. 

 

Try to keep it civil, fellas. No more misguided rage, mkay?

 

Now, don your tinfoil hats and follow me into this room I've lined with rubedo so that DE can't hear our thoughts.

Now, Starn (And I can't take all the credit here, that Sam is a lore sponge and my God, is he good at finding ways to piece things together. Next time you guys run into him, be sure to thank him for me for spring boarding this counter) you brought up Limbo and Mirage, but stated that transference wasn't strong enough to kill a Tenno, because Orokin.

 

But what if we aren't giving transference the lethality credit it deserves? Now, the Tenno were discovered during the middle of the war, effectively making research and subsequent weaponization of them rushed. Keep this in mind while I continue.

 

In Mirage's story, we have the Lotus lamenting over her death, though you argue this breaks new lore and doesn't make sense. But, what if it makes more sense than you're willing to give credit for? The Mirage warframe fighting a losing battle against the Sentients in order to buy time for an escape shuttle to leave is background to her conversation; she's talking to the Tenno. Now, we get to the gruesome part where the ship has escaped, but the Sentients are gruesomely tearing the warframe limb from limb. Now, we've already established that through transference, the Tenno feels the warframe's pain. Though not physically, mentally, the Tenno is being torn apart. She's dying.

 

Our assumption wasn't wrong; there is a Tenno in that suit. It just isn't physically present. Same deal with Limbo; one miscalculated leap through the void and whoop! His warframe and mind have been shredded and scattered all across the void plane, leaving the Tenno sitting in the Somatic Link brain dead. Transference isn't just a link, it is the literal transfer of the Tenno's consciousness into the warframe. As soon as you've transferred, that kid in the back of your Liset isn't you; the warframe you've bonded with is.

 

Those messages you receive on the field? Maybe they aren't messages, but you're supposed thoughts. They aren't being broadcasted, they're in your ferrite plated head.

 

Now, you say the Orokin wouldn't allow this; that death from warframe isn't and shouldn't be allowed with their mentality. That may be well and true, but what if it wasn't an option? What if it was limitations of the humanity within the Tenno?

 

Or what if they simply didn't have the time? Stay with me here, because this is where it starts to get exciting. (Reh, you've got a hole in your tinfoil. Here, you can borrow my gum).

 

As I've already mentioned, the Tenno were discovered during the middle of the war with the Sentients. Normal soldiers weren't making the cut, so the Orokn needed to improvise, otherwise bye-bye gilded empire. Boom, Zariman 10-0 returns from the grave, and suddenly we have a ship full of potential little super-soldiers. Now, we need to work fast, because come a few days, we might not have any labs to research with. We'll cut corners, ignore ethics, keep this all hush-hush because there is no way the humans are going to like this. What's that? Tenno are too dangerous to interface with directly? Well that's easy, make them a body that can, then make a machine that can put them in said bodies. And hurry, the Sentients are knocking on the door.

 

A couple failed experiments and bloody battles later, and huzzah! We've won the war! Let's gift some Tenno some pretty new bodies, have a fancy little ceremony to officially end all this, then we can get back to work on completing the Tenno project quietly. Everyone! Raise your glasses for a-SWEET JIMENY-CHRISTMAS, MY SPLEEN!

 

Natah kills the Orokin, then adopts the Tenno under the identity of the Lotus. But guess what? The warframes aren't perfect; they're incomplete.

 

In a sense, and I'm not trying to be meta here, the Somatic Link, Warframes; they're all in beta. And with no super-intelligent beings alive to continue working, they're stuck in an infinite beta. All we can do now is try to pick up the scattered remains of the Orokin's work and evolve as much as the fragments allow. To keep balance.

 

So here's probably where you're going to try and counter me with the revive system, but I have an answer to that too. Now let's face it, at some point in time we've all watched helplessly as those little blue and red bars/numbers ticked down to zero, causing our beautiful machines of death and destruction to collapse to the floor like a sack of Orokin Cells. Now, it's easy to write off that little red bar as an integrity indicator; reaching zero causes the warframe to lose connection and require a restart. But if that were a case, then why are revives limited? And no, labeling it as a game mechanic could very well be true, but it isn't fun.

 

Now, here's a thought you may not have considered entertaining; what goes on in a revive? What if you aren't restarting your warframe, but waking up your Tenno (Or depending on how you look at it, putting them back to sleep)? And that red bar? Ever entertain the idea that it isn't a damage indicator, but a numeric value tracking the level of pain that, given the body's limits, directly equates to the level of pain your Tenno can withstand before losing consciousness, which would in turn, sever the link? 

 

Armor, shields, body types, hell, even the "genders" of the warframe would all effect the level of pain tolerance the Tenno would possess when transferred in. You get hurt, and as a defense mechanism, your body ejects your consciousness back into that seat in the back of the Orbiter before you and the frame sustain lethal damage. The 'revive' limitations? The physical limitations of your Tenno body; whether it be the number of shocks required to bring you back to life in that chair without frying your nervous system, or the number of doses of drugs you can withstand before you OD. Following tweaked baseball rules, it's four strikes and you're out; either the receiving end of the link is too damaged to accept, or your Tenno is out for the count, waking at a later time while some Tenno sympathizers work to get your frame out of a dangerous situation.

 

Now, what about Mirage and Limbo? By this reasoning, they should have been forced out before their deaths. But they didn't. They died. Why? Simple. Mirage forced the link and stayed in her frame, doing her damndest to buy every second possible for those escaping by fighting until she couldn't anymore. There wouldn't be enough time to send in another frame, hell, she may not have had another frame to send. And Limbo? For science! His death was sudden and instant, there being no way of severing the link in time.

 

So following this full immersion transference also explains why you can't control multiple warframes at the same time. You only have one consciousness; it can only be in one body at a time. Now how do I talk my way out of walking your frame to the back of your Orbiter and looking at the Tenno in the somatic link? If transference plants their consciousness in the warframe, then how come the body moves and interacts in response to stimuli? Well, and DE is liable to prove me wrong in the future, but until then I shall stand by this, notice their silence. Their movements are minute, just some flexing of the fingers and slow movement of the legs, eyes following the cursor at the focus screen. They're there, aren't they?

 

My answer; yes and no. You are indeed looking at the body, but notice how they're unresponsive. Other than small movements, they don't do much when you're standing in front of them. My explanation is simple; the lights are on, but no one is home. Your body you're looking at is empty because you aren't in there; you're in the warframe staring at them. And the 5 ability in-game? A corporeal form given to your consciousness made out of void energy that is being broadcasted by using your frame as a beacon. You don't just teleport to your warframe, that would be asinine and counter to all your attempts to keep your fragile body as far away from the fight as possible.

 

Your original belief in the losses of the Gradivus Dilemma weren't incorrect; we did lose a lot of Tenno. They were either killed rescuing their fallen brethren, or aborted while still within the first dream. You originally woke up within a warframe, the forced cryo-sleep ordered from the Lotus being almost immediately following the Collapse. Most Tenno were transferred into their warframes, and if you kill a body in its sleep, the mind follows suit. With that understanding, imagine how horrible it must have been evacuating the Reservoir; you'd be relieving the events of the Gradivus Dilemma all over again. Imagine sifting through the pods of Tenno long dead before they were even given a chance to see the world they were in. Want to know what makes the image worse? Those bodies you're putting in bags and transporting away so that the Corpus and Grineer can't steal them are the bodies of children. Let that image sink in.

[size=2](My room is so cold right now, I was shivering typing that last paragraph. Someone send me a maxed Warm Coat mod, quick! ;~;)[/size]

Edited December 18, 2015 by SpaceHelicopters

[(PSN)batman200087]

I really like this idea to be honest Space.

I can now picture tiny little Kav holding a deceased Belrev in the future.

*cue Belrev throwing a cake at my face*

[Owlrrex]

You'll laugh at that I actually own a maxed warm Coat. :/ I can not give away a mod I have no spare of, and sometimes I max mods just so they get filtered. Yes, I do have a maxed Intruder as well. No, I never used it.

[Aegia-]

Honestly I'm only angry for comedic purposes at this point

 

Then why do Warframes have set genders if there's no one inside them.

 

Can't be for aesthetic reasons, half the Orokin didn't even know they existed, they thought they were a myth. There's no reason to give a gender to a frame that has nothing inside of it (and yes, there's nothing inside of it, you can say that a consciousness is transferred all you want, that still doesn't magically make flesh and bone and CHARACTER appear inside a frame.)

You can say it's for gameplay reasons all you want, to give cast diversity and all that other HR bullS#&$, but I think it's because DE are just making things up as they go.

 

One of the core tenets of story design in general is creating likeable characters. DE, and by extension anyone who is actually happy with this new "revelation" doesn't seem to mind havign a character -a central character, a MAIN character supposed to represent you and everything you stand for (or your OC or whatever since we're talking about it in the RP forum)- thrust upon them and being basically forced to like it.

 

"Here's your character, a 14 year old kid that will never age and will never mature, one that will always see the world through the eyes of a child. Their thoughts are thoughts of a child. Everything about them is a child. And I swear to god the next person that tries to use the excuse that "they were experimented on and Void radiation, technocyte, etc. etc. they slaughter millions of enemies daily" will be the reason I call in the Exterminatus.

It does not matter what upbringing one of those things has been given, it is still going to see the world through a child's warped perspective, and you know what? That's absolutely mind-numbingly stupid for all of the wrong reasons.

They're more likely to snap and go batS#&$ insane just for fun because they don't need to be aware of their consequences. Children don't think that way. They think in instant gratification. They want something, and they want it now. It doesn't matter what problems might arise from that.

Now give those kids genocide machines and we have a recipe for disaster not even the Stalker can take care of.

 

And Space, my rage isn't coming from the fact that there's nothing in the Warframe (which there isn't, it's just a flesh golem or something) and no matter what you say, not physically being there will and always will diminish the capacity for both survivability and emotional involvement. Like Ice said before, it's like being in a glorified Oculus Rift. Sure, you're still gonna feel the pain, and sure, you're still gonna see things through the eyes of the unfortunate Warframe that the kid decided to put through hell today, but you aren't going to die from it.

You say that the Orokin would have cut corners.

No they @(*()$ wouldn't.

They were the most paranoid and tyrannical race in the system before the Sentients came along and decided to murderize them. Reading the Crewman Synthesis entry (and hell, looking at how they made the Grineer), it shows that anything that they didn't understand or could not be readily made to make sure it didn't come back to either bite them in the ! or fail due to an oversight. The Tenno and the Warframes? Their ONLY  way of combating the Sentients? The ONLY way for them to fight back against a seemingly invincible opponent? The ONLY hope for their race to continue to exist? And you think they would cut corners on something that important? Even if the Sentients were bursting through warp gates straight into the A****** of every Sectarus, the Orokin would never cut corners for something so important.

 

Let's keep in mind that we're talking a strictly roleplay perspective here. Sure, U18 might be nice and fine and dandy from a gameplay perspective, maybe eve a story perspective. It's interesting enough, sure.

But roleplaying such an asinine thing? It would be as if you're roleplaying a roleplay, if I can put it so simply. There's nothing in the Warframe, your character is sitting in a space chair in the back of an Orbiter, essentially remote controlling their OC (the Warframe) to go out and do all the dirty work for them. If their consciousness is in the Warframe, that still doesn't mean that they can talk with anyone else. If you say that all the little quips the Operator so gratingly spouts all the time are indeed their thoughts, then no communication can be had from that. Two Operators have their Warframes go and sit down at a table.

Nothing happens.
They can just sit there and stare blankly at each other because, since there's nothing (important) in a Warframe other than technocyte and flesh apparently, there's no vocal cords. And again, going back to my question about Warframe genders: WHY THE HELL IS THAT A THING if they're all just being controlled by Operators, hm?

 

Somebody can yell at me for being negative all they want, but until they give me a good reason why I should retcon all of my lovingly crafted characters for some brat in an Orbiter, I'll continue being angry.

 

I already explained my headcanon. I already explained that it makes much more sense to have both Tenno and Operators.

The Operators: kids in an Orbiter subjected to Void #@*&$@y on Zariman that occasionally like to chime in with a comment every now and again, in charge of controlling Tenno.

The Tenno: Actual trained individuals put through hell and back when being subjected to Technocyte and put in a Warframe to be controlled by an Operator. Brainwashed by the Orokin into believing they have their own will.

 

This way I'll have to change very little and I can still keep in line with DE's absolute insanity.

 

Quite honestly, I just want to be done talking about this.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Starnsy_Warnsy

[IceDragonofAmber]

You see, that's the reason I was afraid of this argument: your anger at the subject transitioned and became anger at each other.

Debate is fun; it's about as close to a fight as you can get without anyone getting physically hurt, and it forces both you and your opponent to stretch the old brain muscle and pose logical arguments. Arguing is a part of human nature, and it's one I'm rather fond of.

But here's the real kicker; as much as I want to say enough's enough, this subject is just too damn good to put down. It's been awhile since I've had to do this much in-depth analysis on a subject, and I'm so excited about my incoming counter-argument that my fingers are jittery and a permanent grin is plastered on my face. My mouth hurts.

I really, really want to continue this discussion because I think it's good for both sides; I've never been more excited and I believe the others (though correct me if I'm wrong) are getting to relieve some pent up aggression and vent. Now, if things get out of hand again, I'll bite my tongue and end it, so I know how difficult it can be, but try to keep your emotions in check, boyos. Remember, you can be angry at the subject, just don't direct that anger at each other. If you feel your getting a little too emotional, just take a step back and breathe, try to remove your initial bias, and instead of just lashing out, take a moment to understand it before you counter.

Try to keep it civil, fellas. No more misguided rage, mkay?

Now, don your tinfoil hats and follow me into this room I've lined with rubedo so that DE can't hear our thoughts.

Now, Starn (And I can't take all the credit here, that Sam is a lore sponge and my God, is he good at finding ways to piece things together. Next time you guys run into him, be sure to thank him for me for spring boarding this counter) you brought up Limbo and Mirage, but stated that transference wasn't strong enough to kill a Tenno, because Orokin.

But what if we aren't giving transference the lethality credit it deserves? Now, the Tenno were discovered during the middle of the war, effectively making research and subsequent weaponization of them rushed. Keep this in mind while I continue.

In Mirage's story, we have the Lotus lamenting over her death, though you argue this breaks new lore and doesn't make sense. But, what if it makes more sense than you're willing to give credit for? The Mirage warframe fighting a losing battle against the Sentients in order to buy time for an escape shuttle to leave is background to her conversation; she's talking to the Tenno. Now, we get to the gruesome part where the ship has escaped, but the Sentients are gruesomely tearing the warframe limb from limb. Now, we've already established that through transference, the Tenno feels the warframe's pain. Though not physically, mentally, the Tenno is being torn apart. She's dying.

Our assumption wasn't wrong; there is a Tenno in that suit. It just isn't physically present. Same deal with Limbo; one miscalculated leap through the void and whoop! His warframe and mind have been shredded and scattered all across the void plane, leaving the Tenno sitting in the Somatic Link brain dead. Transference isn't just a link, it is the literal transfer of the Tenno's consciousness into the warframe. As soon as you've transferred, that kid in the back of your Liset isn't you; the warframe you've bonded with is.

Those messages you receive on the field? Maybe they aren't messages, but you're supposed thoughts. They aren't being broadcasted, they're in your ferrite plated head.

Now, you say the Orokin wouldn't allow this; that death from warframe isn't and shouldn't be allowed with their mentality. That may be well and true, but what if it wasn't an option? What if it was limitations of the humanity within the Tenno?

Or what if they simply didn't have the time? Stay with me here, because this is where it starts to get exciting. (Reh, you've got a hole in your tinfoil. Here, you can borrow my gum).

As I've already mentioned, the Tenno were discovered during the middle of the war with the Sentients. Normal soldiers weren't making the cut, so the Orokn needed to improvise, otherwise bye-bye gilded empire. Boom, Zariman 10-0 returns from the grave, and suddenly we have a ship full of potential little super-soldiers. Now, we need to work fast, because come a few days, we might not have any labs to research with. We'll cut corners, ignore ethics, keep this all hush-hush because there is no way the humans are going to like this. What's that? Tenno are too dangerous to interface with directly? Well that's easy, make them a body that can, then make a machine that can put them in said bodies. And hurry, the Sentients are knocking on the door.

A couple failed experiments and bloody battles later, and huzzah! We've won the war! Let's gift some Tenno some pretty new bodies, have a fancy little ceremony to officially end all this, then we can get back to work on completing the Tenno project quietly. Everyone! Raise your glasses for a-SWEET JIMENY-CHRISTMAS, MY SPLEEN!

Natah kills the Orokin, then adopts the Tenno under the identity of the Lotus. But guess what? The warframes aren't perfect; they're incomplete.

In a sense, and I'm not trying to be meta here, the Somatic Link, Warframes; they're all in beta. And with no super-intelligent beings alive to continue working, they're stuck in an infinite beta. All we can do now is try to pick up the scattered remains of the Orokin's work and evolve as much as the fragments allow. To keep balance.

So here's probably where you're going to try and counter me with the revive system, but I have an answer to that too. Now let's face it, at some point in time we've all watched helplessly as those little blue and red bars/numbers ticked down to zero, causing our beautiful machines of death and destruction to collapse to the floor like a sack of Orokin Cells. Now, it's easy to write off that little red bar as an integrity indicator; reaching zero causes the warframe to lose connection and require a restart. But if that were a case, then why are revives limited? And no, labeling it as a game mechanic could very well be true, but it isn't fun.

Now, here's a thought you may not have considered entertaining; what goes on in a revive? What if you aren't restarting your warframe, but waking up your Tenno (Or depending on how you look at it, putting them back to sleep)? And that red bar? Ever entertain the idea that it isn't a damage indicator, but a numeric value tracking the level of pain that, given the body's limits, directly equates to the level of pain your Tenno can withstand before losing consciousness, which would in turn, sever the link?

Armor, shields, body types, hell, even the "genders" of the warframe would all effect the level of pain tolerance the Tenno would possess when transferred in. You get hurt, and as a defense mechanism, your body ejects your consciousness back into that seat in the back of the Orbiter before you and the frame sustain lethal damage. The 'revive' limitations? The physical limitations of your Tenno body; whether it be the number of shocks required to bring you back to life in that chair without frying your nervous system, or the number of doses of drugs you can withstand before you OD. Following tweaked baseball rules, it's four strikes and you're out; either the receiving end of the link is too damaged to accept, or your Tenno is out for the count, waking at a later time while some Tenno sympathizers work to get your frame out of a dangerous situation.

Now, what about Mirage and Limbo? By this reasoning, they should have been forced out before their deaths. But they didn't. They died. Why? Simple. Mirage forced the link and stayed in her frame, doing her damndest to buy every second possible for those escaping by fighting until she couldn't anymore. There wouldn't be enough time to send in another frame, hell, she may not have had another frame to send. And Limbo? For science! His death was sudden and instant, there being no way of severing the link in time.

So following this full immersion transference also explains why you can't control multiple warframes at the same time. You only have one consciousness; it can only be in one body at a time. Now how do I talk my way out of walking your frame to the back of your Orbiter and looking at the Tenno in the somatic link? If transference plants their consciousness in the warframe, then how come the body moves and interacts in response to stimuli? Well, and DE is liable to prove me wrong in the future, but until then I shall stand by this, notice their silence. Their movements are minute, just some flexing of the fingers and slow movement of the legs, eyes following the cursor at the focus screen. They're there, aren't they?

My answer; yes and no. You are indeed looking at the body, but notice how they're unresponsive. Other than small movements, they don't do much when you're standing in front of them. My explanation is simple; the lights are on, but no one is home. Your body you're looking at is empty because you aren't in there; you're in the warframe staring at them. And the 5 ability in-game? A corporeal form given to your consciousness made out of void energy that is being broadcasted by using your frame as a beacon. You don't just teleport to your warframe, that would be asinine and counter to all your attempts to keep your fragile body as far away from the fight as possible.

Your original belief in the losses of the Gradivus Dilemma weren't incorrect; we did lose a lot of Tenno. They were either killed rescuing their fallen brethren, or aborted while still within the first dream. You originally woke up within a warframe, the forced cryo-sleep ordered from the Lotus being almost immediately following the Collapse. Most Tenno were transferred into their warframes, and if you kill a body in its sleep, the mind follows suit. With that understanding, imagine how horrible it must have been evacuating the Reservoir; you'd be relieving the events of the Gradivus Dilemma all over again. Imagine sifting through the pods of Tenno long dead before they were even given a chance to see the world they were in. Want to know what makes the image worse? Those bodies you're putting in bags and transporting away so that the Corpus and Grineer can't steal them are the bodies of children. Let that image sink in.

(My room is so cold right now, I was shivering typing that last paragraph. Someone send me a maxed Warm Coat mod, quick! ;~;)

While that makes sense Space, that's a whole lot of speculation. A LOT of speculation. If that's how everything turns out in the future, if that's how DE evolves the lore I'll be happy, I'll shut up. But as it stands right now, no, I am not happy and as it stands now no, none of the things you explained make sense in the lore.

That and the fact that I'll always prefer being the silent badass that we once were as opposed to a crippled kid in a VR pod. Personal preference.

They're more likely to snap and go batS#&$ insane just for fun because they don't need to be aware of their consequences. Children don't think that way. They think in instant gratification. They want something, and they want it now. It doesn't matter what problems might arise from that.

*Looks at Draco*

Makes sense.

Edited December 18, 2015 by IceDragonofAmber

[SpaceHelicopters]

Honestly I'm only angry for comedic purposes at this point

 

Then why do Warframes have set genders if there's no one inside them.

 

Can't be for aesthetic reasons, half the Orokin didn't even know they existed, they thought they were a myth. There's no reason to give a gender to a frame that has nothing inside of it (and yes, there's nothing inside of it, you can say that a consciousness is transferred all you want, that still doesn't magically make flesh and bone and CHARACTER appear inside a frame.)

You can say it's for gameplay reasons all you want, to give cast diversity and all that other HR bullS#&$, but I think it's because DE are just making things up as they go.

 

One of the core tenets of story design in general is creating likeable characters. DE, and by extension anyone who is actually happy with this new "revelation" doesn't seem to mind havign a character -a central character, a MAIN character supposed to represent you and everything you stand for (or your OC or whatever since we're talking about it in the RP forum)- thrust upon them and being basically forced to like it.

 

"Here's your character, a 14 year old kid that will never age and will never mature, one that will always see the world through the eyes of a child. Their thoughts are thoughts of a child. Everything about them is a child. And I swear to god the next person that tries to use the excuse that "they were experimented on and Void radiation, technocyte, etc. etc. they slaughter millions of enemies daily" will be the reason I call in the Exterminatus.

It does not matter what upbringing one of those things has been given, it is still going to see the world through a child's warped perspective, and you know what? That's absolutely mind-numbingly stupid for all of the wrong reasons.

They're more likely to snap and go batS#&$ insane just for fun because they don't need to be aware of their consequences. Children don't think that way. They think in instant gratification. They want something, and they want it now. It doesn't matter what problems might arise from that.

Now give those kids genocide machines and we have a recipe for disaster not even the Stalker can take care of.

 

And Space, my rage isn't coming from the fact that there's nothing in the Warframe (which there isn't, it's just a flesh golem or something) and no matter what you say, not physically being there will and always will diminish the capacity for both survivability and emotional involvement. Like Ice said before, it's like being in a glorified Oculus Rift. Sure, you're still gonna feel the pain, and sure, you're still gonna see things through the eyes of the unfortunate Warframe that the kid decided to put through hell today, but you aren't going to die from it.

You say that the Orokin would have cut corners.

No they @(*()$ wouldn't.

They were the most paranoid and tyrannical race in the system before the Sentients came along and decided to murderize them. Reading the Crewman Synthesis entry (and hell, looking at how they made the Grineer), it shows that anything that they didn't understand or could not be readily made to make sure it didn't come back to either bite them in the ! or fail due to an oversight. The Tenno and the Warframes? Their ONLY  way of combating the Sentients? The ONLY way for them to fight back against a seemingly invincible opponent? The ONLY hope for their race to continue to exist? And you think they would cut corners on something that important? Even if the Sentients were bursting through warp gates straight into the A****** of every Sectarus, the Orokin would never cut corners for something so important.

 

Let's keep in mind that we're talking a strictly roleplay perspective here. Sure, U18 might be nice and fine and dandy from a gameplay perspective, maybe eve a story perspective. It's interesting enough, sure.

But roleplaying such an asinine thing? It would be as if you're roleplaying a roleplay, if I can put it so simply. There's nothing in the Warframe, your character is sitting in a space chair in the back of an Orbiter, essentially remote controlling their OC (the Warframe) to go out and do all the dirty work for them. If their consciousness is in the Warframe, that still doesn't mean that they can talk with anyone else. If you say that all the little quips the Operator so gratingly spouts all the time are indeed their thoughts, then no communication can be had from that. Two Operators have their Warframes go and sit down at a table.

Nothing happens.

They can just sit there and stare blankly at each other because, since there's nothing (important) in a Warframe other than technocyte and flesh apparently, there's no vocal cords. And again, going back to my question about Warframe genders: WHY THE HELL IS THAT A THING if they're all just being controlled by Operators, hm?

 

Somebody can yell at me for being negative all they want, but until they give me a good reason why I should retcon all of my lovingly crafted characters for some brat in an Orbiter, I'll continue being angry.

 

I already explained my headcanon. I already explained that it makes much more sense to have both Tenno and Operators.

The Operators: kids in an Orbiter subjected to Void #@*&$@y on Zariman that occasionally like to chime in with a comment every now and again, in charge of controlling Tenno.

The Tenno: Actual trained individuals put through hell and back when being subjected to Technocyte and put in a Warframe to be controlled by an Operator. Brainwashed by the Orokin into believing they have their own will.

 

This way I'll have to change very little and I can still keep in line with DE's absolute insanity.

 

Quite honestly, I just want to be done talking about this.

 

One, SPAESE MUHREENS!

 

*ahem* Excuse that, two:

I acknowledge your request and respect your decision, and I hate to do this to you, but I have to ask: what makes you so adamant about empty frames? Don't misread this, it isn't an attack, but genuine curiosity. Did I miss something in the revealed lore that clearly states that a warframe is a meat golem? I'll be honest, it's completely possible and likely I missed something because I was so entranced at the time.

 

You may reserve your right to refuse, however should you accept my request, I do have another question:

 

Where are you basing your information on children? While I agree with some of the facts you brought up, there are others I don't quite understand. I've personally worked with children on many different occasions and have never encountered certain behaviors you've mentioned. In fact, I've even been delightfully surprised by the level of maturity some of the 7-11 year-olds I've worked with in the past. Well-developed (though not fully, mind you) senses of morality, strong senses of familial loyalty, and evidence of exercised patience are some of the more common characteristics I can come up with off the top of my head.

 

If you would, please shed some light on the situation.

 

While that makes sense Space, that's a whole lot of speculation. A LOT of speculation. If that's how everything turns out in the future, if that's how DE evolves the lore I'll be happy, I'll shut up. But as it stands right now, no, I am not happy and as it stands now no, none of the things you explained make sense in the lore.

That and the fact that I'll always prefer being the silent badass that we once were as opposed to a crippled kid in a VR pod. Personal preference.

*Looks at Draco*

Makes sense.

 

Yeah, it's a lot of speculation, but isn't that the fun of working out lore? You work with what you can find and see just how close you get.

 

Now, the only thing that's got my head cocked to the side is how you said none of what I've said makes sense with the current lore. Would you mind informing me of my error? What have I missed?

[Rehtael7]

Interesting. So 

 

One, SPAESE MUHREENS!

 

*ahem* Excuse that, two:

I acknowledge your request and respect your decision, and I hate to do this to you, but I have to ask: what makes you so adamant about empty frames? Don't misread this, it isn't an attack, but genuine curiosity. Did I miss something in the revealed lore that clearly states that a warframe is a meat golem? I'll be honest, it's completely possible and likely I missed something because I was so entranced at the time.

 

You may reserve your right to refuse, however should you accept my request, I do have another question:

 

Where are you basing your information on children? While I agree with some of the facts you brought up, there are others I don't quite understand. I've personally worked with children on many different occasions and have never encountered certain behaviors you've mentioned. In fact, I've even been delightfully surprised by the level of maturity some of the 7-11 year-olds I've worked with in the past. Well-developed (though not fully, mind you) senses of morality, strong senses of familial loyalty, and evidence of exercised patience are some of the more common characteristics I can come up with off the top of my head.

 

If you would, please shed some light on the situation.

 

 

Yeah, it's a lot of speculation, but isn't that the fun of working out lore? You work with what you can find and see just how close you get.

 

Now, the only thing that's got my head cocked to the side is how you said none of what I've said makes sense with the current lore. Would you mind informing me of my error? What have I missed?

That's kind of where I'm at with any form of debate with people against the revealed truth behind the Tenno. I can kind-of understand why people might not like it, but I cannot understand why people are so lividly against it.

 

On a side note, was that last physical description enough to earn me entry into the lounge?

[(PSN)TheCrimsonTuckr]

Agent! I need a reply in the IC to commence posting!

Crackdown is a cool game, saying Agent just reminds me of it so much.

[IceDragonofAmber]

Yeah, it's a lot of speculation, but isn't that the fun of working out lore? You work with what you can find and see just how close you get.

Now, the only thing that's got my head cocked to the side is how you said none of what I've said makes sense with the current lore. Would you mind informing me of my error? What have I missed?

After all these years I'm pretty tired of having to speculate, especially when we have to speculate about things that made perfect sense

What I meant was that as the lore currently stands your theory wouldn't exist since as far as we know the Tenno don't die with their frames among other things I don't have the time to shift through and find. Until DE proves evidence to the contrary your theory couldn't exist.

Atleat that's what I think I meant. I don't half know myself.

[(PSN)batman200087]

 

 

 

 

 

 

U18 PICS ABOVE

[XionicoRX]

It looks so awesome on console! (just because I'm playing on lowest graphics :D )

[(PSN)qwerty1310]

Redeem the code THESECONDDREAM by 11am ET on Sunday, Dec 20th at https://warframe.com/promocode to receive your in-game rewards on Monday, Dec 21st at 11am ET![Please note that you will need to log out and back in to receive the rewards]

For PS4 users ^^^

And since Batman uploaded his pics, guess I had to upload mine to.

( Dangit I only captured 2 :/ )

Some random thing that dropped of the Sentient...

Hey look! Firing without a bow! :D

Quest...sucks how we can't replay any of the cinematics except the one with the MR3 Loki that got owned.

Now if DE could allow us to wear that helmet for the Operator again...

Edited December 20, 2015 by (PS4)qwerty1310

[Exoteran]

Okay then. So apparently the frames are full of hot air so to speak...well to the uncreative mind that kind of sucks or is completely fine. But I'm the one to say that absolute Lore-Locking is an absolute sin, so the new update does FA to my cast. If you don't like it then give lore the shaft, it's your perception and your characters.

I thought the suits worked like the one in Time Shift mixed with Samus Aran's power suit.

[Rehtael7]

Okay then. So apparently the frames are full of hot air so to speak...well to the uncreative mind that kind of sucks or is completely fine. But I'm the one to say that absolute Lore-Locking is an absolute sin, so the new update does FA to my cast. If you don't like it then give lore the shaft, it's your perception and your characters.

I thought the suits worked like the one in Time Shift mixed with Samus Aran's power suit.

Well, not quite. From what we can tell they're a mix of synthetic and organic material. (No more spoilers, right? It's out on PS4 and XBOX) And they may even be their own sentience, since we can speculate that the Warframes acted of their own accord when breaking the War.

[Exoteran]

*Evil grin*

NEW OOC QUESTION

In light of the recent things that the most vocal of us think is bullS#&$:

In lieu of the Zariman children, what would you replace the Operator with? Go crazy gents, there's no limits. Replace them with a sex toy if you honestly want to.

Glados (hates the main character but can't give an honest crappie about the robots ie. Warframes), Atlas (manipulative that that controlled the main character under the veil of free will), Shodan (Glados model 1, just more subtly manipulative, doesn't hate you, but sees you as aneeded expendable pawn)

...these characters, Ren, a turkey sandwicth, cuthulu, Psyduck, a soy nut, or a steamed pea. Because random and cartoons.

Yes.