LoopStricken Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 No, its Radial Javelin. Argument one, two and three I outlined how Excalibur is a mass killing God as he is right now. By my selective quoting, I'm implying that you're incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AwkwardMonkers Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 DE has stated that the combination of min/max spam with or without team synergies on maps of certian sizes and/or spawn rates constitutes a exploit that unbalances the game. RJ is on of a number of ways to do this. Nerf'n the powers is only one aspect of addressing the problem. Closing the weakness on the tile sets is probably the best way to solve the problem. Changing map size and or spawn rates, and also adjusting level rewards could mitigate the game breaking spam fests. I like your post. This is the reason why I did not suggest anywhere in my original post that they should nullify Radial Javelin. "Nerfing" is to easy and well aggravate others, but changing map layouts and spawn rates will definitely be a step towards the right direction. For example, excavations are great maps their so spread out and death is assured to players, while keeping a balance killing spree between enemies and players. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AwkwardMonkers Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 The only problem I have with your post TC is that your singling RJ out, without acknowledging that it's the combined synergy/number of facets that's the cause. RJ alone is not nearly as potent, and there are a number of other setups that achieve similar results. That and people having a love/hate relationship with grinding. People being people is killing the game, the same people who refuse to accept any kind of nerf(which effects their rep/exp gain) to their grinding efficiency. (clarify: I'm not calling for a RJ nerf specifically) We aren't all like that though. There are those that don't burn ourselves out using these methods. It's as big of a problem as people make it to be. But yeah a lot of people would benefit from a more structured environment. Even if they complain about it. If it can be exploited especially in a game where their is no real life consequence it will be exploited to its fullest. People well always try to justify their answer is correct, but killing 6000 enemies within 20 minutes of game time in Warframe is beyond overkill. Radial Javelin is used while players are away from the game, to kill all the enemies in any mission, that is why it is being exploited. "people would benefit from a more structured environment" With this in mind people will evolve. Before the Radial Javelin Buff people used Excalibur's Radial Blind for their advantages. Now it is Radial Javelin. No matter what condition good players will find other ways to make their favorite Warframe's viable again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AwkwardMonkers Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Play in a way using gear you feel is balanced against the enemy you are trying to face. Do not try to tell others what they should or shouldnt use. Some people like to feel overpowered, some like to be underpowered and overcome a great challenge < This is their choice, not yours. (PS4)AwkwardMonkers Needs to take this advice. And read my previous post. I am not stating their should be a "nerf" with Excalibur's Radial Javelin, nor am I dictating how others should play the game. I wrote this post to inform every individual that reads the forums that, "We can use Radial Javelin to get multi-million kills and achieve God Killing mode." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocturneOfSolace Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Second, Radial Javelins shoots at the enemies like bullets. Why is this a problem? Banshee who can be considered the strongest damage multiplier in the game, can use sonar multiple times and massively increase the damage of Radial Javelins to unknown numbers. People have reportedly told me they can hit between 58,000 to 120,000 per javelin with Banshee constantly using Sonar. I myself, can kill enemies at level 400 together with Radial Javelin and Banshee's sonar with luck and ability spamming. Sonar does not work with Radial Javelin, did you actually go and do your research on the wiki before posting this? "I am not stating there should be a 'nerf' with RJ, nor am I dictating how others should play the game. I wrote this post to inform every individual that reads the forums that, "we can use RJ to get multi million kills kills and achieve God Killing mode." Beyond how badly you're exaggerating it's power, if what you're trying say is here that the whole point of this thread was to tell us all something we already knew, what the hell is the point you're trying to make? Edited February 5, 2015 by NocturneOfSolace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AwkwardMonkers Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 No. You've not. If you have built RJ to the point as good as Reckoning, assuming you have built Reckoning with few forma to the point you have the best Oberon's Reckoning for every mission, then you wouldn't have write and complain something this stupid. That guy in front of you doing RJ that well because he have been forma and staying with his Excal for many 30 levels to get to that point, sacrificing his RB & SD, just like you have sacrificing everything everything just to build Reckoning to the max... and if you even deny that, you have no right to complain other guy's RJ. It's your choice as much as his. Oh no read your entire post. It still isn't as powerful as you make it out to be. The maxed damage is around 3,000 per Javelin, pretty much the same as Frosts maxed out Avalanche. That's with all 3 maxed strength mods. The only way to get to any of the numbers you posted up were through synergy with other frames that have damage multipliers; Banshee is such a frame, and you stated her. Thus, there isn't an OP problem with it because it does that low (for an ult) level of damage. ndantony that is were you are wrong. What justifies you by stating that, I cannot use a singe Warframe to do every mission I do. It works its been done several times by many people. AlphaHorseman. In my experience throughout all the time I have used Excalibur, I have found many ways to maximize its full potential. Though I will not say my Excalibur build is perfect, I can at least say with my Radial Javelin build it can destroy thousands of enemies dealing consistent damage every single level up an enemy gains. I don't think you are reading my whole post right because you seem to only point out 1 aspect of my post every single time you respond. You keep defending their is no problem with Radial Javelin, but what side are you justifying. A person who wants to take advantage of a game because he can or an individual who understands that, this game has a lot of bugs in it that people constantly try to take advantage of them. I made this post not to "nerf" Radial Javelin, but to inform readers that, Radial Javelin can be used to make your enemies extinct in Warframe. Lastly, This game is a VERY GOOD Game. We have played thousands of hours because we really like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocturneOfSolace Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 In my experience throughout all the time I have used Excalibur, I have found many ways to maximize its full potential. Though I will not say my Excalibur build is perfect, I can at least say with my Radial Javelin build it can destroy thousands of enemies dealing consistent damage every single level up an enemy gains. How exactly are you doing this? In my experience yes, RJ wrecks enemies like lancers, regular corpus crewmen and what not, but up against opponents like ancients, gunners, bombards, eximus, and more, RJ is nowhere near as effective And once again "I am not stating there should be a 'nerf' with RJ, nor am I dictating how others should play the game. I wrote this post to inform every individual that reads the forums that, "we can use RJ to get multi million kills kills and achieve God Killing mode." What is your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) AlphaHorseman. In my experience throughout all the time I have used Excalibur, I have found many ways to maximize its full potential. Though I will not say my Excalibur build is perfect, I can at least say with my Radial Javelin build it can destroy thousands of enemies dealing consistent damage every single level up an enemy gains. I don't think you are reading my whole post right because you seem to only point out 1 aspect of my post every single time you respond. You keep defending their is no problem with Radial Javelin, but what side are you justifying. A person who wants to take advantage of a game because he can or an individual who understands that, this game has a lot of bugs in it that people constantly try to take advantage of them. I made this post not to "nerf" Radial Javelin, but to inform readers that, Radial Javelin can be used to make your enemies extinct in Warframe. Lastly, This game is a VERY GOOD Game. We have played thousands of hours because we really like it. Alright, lets try saying this another way, I use Excal for the fun of it because I love his powers, and even when I've built him for max power strength, maxed range, maxed whatever it is, literally none of the figures you put up, nor the things that you've written, have happened without the help of damage magnifiers like Banshee's or Rhinos abilities. Nor has it killed "thousands of enemies" because of how enemy armor, shields, and HP scales during endless or extended or Void content. Oh there's somebody somewhere that's going to think that there's a problem with RJ. My only problem with it is that it has very little CC/Utility, other than that minor 2 second stun. It's a lackluster ability that needs tune ups because it doesn't scale into later content. There is no one "taking advantage" of anything, as it is by design that DE has made his Ult perform in this way. There isn't any bugs when it comes to this (other than weird targeting issues, maybe) because it performs exactly as DE has intended it to, by their design and implementation. So please, stop with the bugs part or taking any advantage, nor am I on any side that has to do with bugs, because bugs just screw up the performance of the game, we all want the bugs hammered out. Your points are murky at best, you do not clarify what you are trying to say, what argument you are for, and yet rebuttal others who are saying it is in no need of a nerf. ANY POWER that has a higher damage output than the enemies you are facing will "make your enemies extinct in Warframe." Radial Javelin isn't an exception, nor is it an outlier. It is, however, a skill lacking in CC/Utility. Now, what is your point? Because you don't make it clear at all. Edited February 5, 2015 by AlphaHorseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Lorewalker1022 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Oh man every time I come view these boards somebody is always trying to nerd something lol. Javelin is fine. Let it be. If it's doing exponential damage then perhaps look around at the frames you are playing with and the buffs they provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Thats...not far at all... I do that with a Nyx and one Mesa Id also love a direct quote from them about it being an abuse considering they designed these ability's to be spamable, Efficiency Mods, Energy Restores, the fact they removed after-casts from the game, esspecially since these generally spamable radial abilitys turn off the moment you hit late without as I said a full dedicated party. Or are you saying DE doesn't approve of people building synergistic parties and working together to complete content. want a direct quote ok Our ‘press 4 to win’ ultimates are metered primarily by the supply of energy. Finding an energy loophole means that Homer’s drinking bird can play the game for you. That is not team synergy. That is just broken. This fall, starting with Excalibur, we’ve begun to take a hard look at these ‘X-Ray AOE’ abilities and wonder if we can bring more elements of skill back in. That’s the short answer to ‘why the hell is DE messing with us’. Homer’s drinking bird should not play the game for you. DESteve https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345295-vivergate-vent-radioactive-gas-yn/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric1738 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 nerf radial javelin doesnt even solve anything, 25m base range ulti like rhino stomp with damage buffs still kills anything and can be recast all the time. so stop calling radial javelin being the problem. the problem is the spawn rate of interception mission. that's main issue of old viver and current rep farming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I like your post. This is the reason why I did not suggest anywhere in my original post that they should nullify Radial Javelin. "Nerfing" is to easy and well aggravate others, but changing map layouts and spawn rates will definitely be a step towards the right direction. For example, excavations are great maps their so spread out and death is assured to players, while keeping a balance killing spree between enemies and players. +1 Actually we figured out how to use RJ spam there as well and it is just as easy to do with infinite enemies coming to you the whole time. The energy loop needs to be fixed period otherwise it will never cease and DE will honestly continue to place gigantic hurdles in front of us that bother spammers less than the hurt everyone else. This statement has proven itself thus far with all the eximus enemies and the infested tar moas. I don't expect that fiddling with the maps will halt the behavior. Players will just find a different place to apply it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) want a direct quote ok Our ‘press 4 to win’ ultimates are metered primarily by the supply of energy. Finding an energy loophole means that Homer’s drinking bird can play the game for you. That is not team synergy. That is just broken. This fall, starting with Excalibur, we’ve begun to take a hard look at these ‘X-Ray AOE’ abilities and wonder if we can bring more elements of skill back in. That’s the short answer to ‘why the hell is DE messing with us’. Homer’s drinking bird should not play the game for you. DESteve https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345295-vivergate-vent-radioactive-gas-yn/ Genin do we really have to go through this again? Remember what happened, they said that months back, and then in the process add in Primed Continuity, Primed Flow, with a Primed Streamline on the way to assist with the duration, availability, and energy pool of powers. Actions speak louder than words, and they said those words even before releasing those mods. They've released these mods even after the Vivergate incident. Edited February 5, 2015 by AlphaHorseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypeSaber Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I was about to say...that was a rather old quote....as well as AlphaHorseman they have in fact made builds work with battery tactics more efficient rather then less. Honestly outside of making every radial ability be stopped by terrain farming tactics will exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Genin do we really have to go through this again? Remember what happened, they said that months back, and then in the process add in Primed Continuity, Primed Flow, with a Primed Streamline on the way to assist with the duration, availability, and energy pool of powers. Actions speak louder than words, and they said those words even before releasing those mods. They've released these mods even after the Vivergate incident. Not arguing just clarifying for the individual that asked for a direct quote. In addition let me remind you that we have had no official statement redacting that message delivered by Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Not arguing just clarifying for the individual that asked for a direct quote. In addition let me remind you that we have had no official statement redacting that message delivered by Steve. True, but that doesn't mean that RJ is in need of a nerf. Nor any powers in the game, at the moment. They've said that, and voila, we've got Nullifiers and new Primed Mods that boost our powers. They're an annoying first step, those Nullifiers, but fleshing them out or reworking their concept could be a good stepping stone for future content that challenges us. Not directing it at you, but the OP is highly unclear, nor does any of this dictate a nerf when the numbers posted are completely off, as are the death toll figures. Edited February 5, 2015 by AlphaHorseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystic_89 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Only problem I have is recruiting chat. It's nothing but "rep farming need excal" U should see the &#! kissing that goes on for trinity in recruiting chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystic_89 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 True, but that doesn't mean that RJ is in need of a nerf. Nor any powers in the game, at the moment. They've said that, and voila, we've got Nullifiers and new Primed Mods that boost our powers. They're an annoying first step, those Nullifiers, but fleshing them out or reworking their concept could be a good stepping stone for future content that challenges us. Not directing it at you, but the OP is highly unclear, nor does any of this dictate a nerf when the numbers posted are completely off, as are the death toll figures. Totally agree... Simply ranting OP is no valid reason for nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndantony Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 ndantony that is were you are wrong. What justifies you by stating that, I cannot use a singe Warframe to do every mission I do. It works its been done several times by many people.Easy. By ways of your argument and figuring Excal's by papering and Wikia. If you have truly spent time, weeks and months, caring and powering (forma multi-time with cares) with each of these frames and learn their abilities and understand their weaknesses; Excal, Volt, Mag, Rhino, Mag, Limbo, Mesa, etc... you wouldn't even start this post to begin, less going into arguing and showing more of your lack of understanding... It's just like someone would say Oberon is a power-god, his 4-button press to win Reckoning kills the entire deathsquad with just like that; or 300 on the left and 200 on the right; too OP. And "it's been done several times by many people." I'm sure you wouldn't like that either and you can tell how stupid that line of reasoning is. Because you are a 'caring' Oberon player and you know better. Little did that individual recognize it took Oberon's players thick and thin and much time to have built and specialized the his Reckoning to that level of power or capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nofo Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Lower the range from 25 to 15m (Most ultimates are 15m) Problem solved, no more draco and stephano noobs wrong. Saryn still one shots until something like wave 20 all it means is the excals, rhinos saryns etc etc need to move around a little and press 4. Having "kill everything" abilities combined with fleeting expertise and streamline is stupid, if excal gets nerfed into the ground there are plenty of other frames that can do it, just not as well. Edited February 5, 2015 by nofo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilmaesh Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Ability have too much range in this game, its ridiculous. And ulti should have a cooldown, they don't feel ulti at all since you can spam them all the time. This is the love i get sometime when i play excalibur in invasion mission for exemple: i can't really say anything against that when you do 80%+ off all the kills/dmg of the mission (and saryn is worse). Other players get the leftovers I dont understand the fuss about nerfing, just change your gameplay. There are apts that can kill the fun for all team member beside you. I would also like to know what is the % of players in Warframe doing endgame content. Trying to balance the game with only endgame doesn't feel right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 In order to balance radial javlin all you need to do is just take away the stun...i don't see the reason the stun is there anyways. If you wanna stun you should use radial blind. When i rep farm the main thing keeping people alive is the stun afterwards...take that away the enemies keep coming to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niryco Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Thank you for reading this long topic and I eagerly wait for the replies ahead if any. :) Dear OP, I would like to explain the situation here abit. In the past warframes were really powerful and to be honest pretty much as powerful as they were now, however there was the problem that warframes lacked synergy between powers to overcome great odds. What you have typed, displayed what the community has been asked for for a very long time, honestly warframes were already overpowered before you talked about radial javelin hitting the whole map. The main idea of warframes are the be overpowered offensively but with this power there lack alot of need to work as a team so this lead to alot of cells just working for themselves. However now in this game there is synergy, it is true that not all frames can synchronize perfectly but DE has been working by revamping their powers to make such things a reality. On top of that there is even an addition of augment mods to top it off to aid with this scheme. So this is what the community wanted and has asked which we have received it. Now playing in teams in warframe is more rewarding than playing solo because there is a possibility of synchronizing individual powers to become undefeatable gods. That is what a team is and that is what a team should work to become, unbeatable together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaRDeMoN787 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I was always under the impression RJ wasn't excals best ability. O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilianJoe Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 This is somewhat a required read. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/396262-complaints-about-4-spam-summary-dont-push-the-way-you-play-on-others-respect-thy-neighbor/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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