Warframe's Ultimate Killing Machine Radial Javelin

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

I'll never understand why people prefer Excalibur over Mirage for farming. I have news for you, Prism is better than Radial Javelin in almost every way. Prism does Radial Javelin's damage EVERY SECOND over a longer range and has a Radial Blind effect tied in just for good measure. You can just shoot a Prism straight up so that it bounces up and down over the same spot, and it's like you are doing a Radial Javelin once every second for as long as it lasts for FAR less energy. Excalibur can't even do Radial Javelin once every second.

 

It shoots bullets, that's far enough. Read previous posts to understand why Excalibur's Javelin is so strong. 

 

https://warframe.com/news/numbers-warframe-powers-1

2% usage and new players have the ability to get Excalibur when they start out, so some of those hours are from new players rather than experienced, and veteran players

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

Oh please, so it's gotten the most kills. That doesn't mean it's a bad ability that's bad for the game. We've already debunked and showed that there are very few places where this can actually be useful for nuking a map. Defense and Interception were the places. Hence why people go to those maps, Vivergate, Draco, Stephano, and so on and so forth. So the ability can kill things on the Star Chart when enemies aren't up for the damage output of an end-game or higher level build, that's the case with any damage dealing power modded for damage higher than the map they're fighting on.

 

It isn't too prevalent when it's only useful in a small portion of content (two mission types). It doesn't need a serious look because DE is already adding in enemies, changing up the maps like Viver, it was the first to change after Vivergate, and it isn't going to be the last. So Excal players like using RJ, doesn't mean that it's a bad ability. If anything, it's alright where it is, lacks a bit of CC, but could use a buff.

 

2% usage and some of those guys using Excalibur are new players who don't know anything about Warframe. I spent 400 hours myself using Excalibur for unknown reasons when I barely began. 

 

15% usage on Saryn and 2nd place on kill boards how many kills less roughly 200,000.

 

How many kills assist less than Radial Javelin? Roughly 180,000 less than Radial Javelin.

 

How many Miasma's used compared to Radial Javelin? Roughly 40,000 less than Radial Javelin.

 

If Excalibur was used as much as Saryn, we would be seeing kills among 10 millions rather than 2 million kills. 

 

Next month will see more of a ridiculous amount of kills and usage with Excalibur because it is a scientific fact if individuals find a more efficient way of doing things no matter what it is, they would do it. However, science is wrong all the time because it is a by product of human assessment and understanding. 

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

Oh and why is that? Because you don't like it? Simply disliking a play style does not invalidate it. If it does well or is widely used, that doesn't mean it is a bad play style.

 

Very True!

[jmforeman02]

It shoots bullets, that's far enough. Read previous posts to understand why Excalibur's Javelin is so strong. 

 

https://warframe.com/news/numbers-warframe-powers-1

2% usage and new players have the ability to get Excalibur when they start out, so some of those hours are from new players rather than experienced, and veteran players

My point was the Mirage is more efficient for that kind of kill farming and I stand by that. I know people don't use her as much for multiple reasons like not having her but she does have a better ultimate. When people say Radial Javelin is OP, they should really look at Mirage. Her ability is Excalibur's two best abilities combined and improved. The blind effect doesn't even have a line of sight requirement like his. The damage, energy efficiency, and range of her Ult is higher than his.

[AlphaHorseman]

"Play style". The problem is spamming one ability is far less of a play style than using all four. The problem is, using the other abilities isn't worth it because spamming an infinite target radial with infinite x-ray in a large range is exponentially better than using anything else. Radial Javelin has damage and stun. The other abilities are more limited in purpose. #1 is movement, #2 is very limited stun, and #3 is some form of evasion. Ability #4 however carries more damage than any other ability, stuns without limitations, and you don't worry about evasion if you can stun constantly.

 

Everything is on one ability. This is as much the case for Excalibur as it is for many other warframes. It's unhealthy to the game because all the creative work put into abilities dies when nobody uses them, and developers feel entitled to do things like nerf fusion core rates, make keys harder to get, release ability-immune enemies, and in general expand the grind because they know now that we break the system and we're too stubborn to let them fix the game to be fun and balanced. Their vengeance: overpowered grind.

 

Limiting radials is the absolute easiest option to reverse the trend. It will make other abilities more worthwhile and hopefully persuade developers to go easier on us when grind is considered. The alternative option is expanding the solar system and buffing the other non-radial abilities to be extremely damaging and effective, at which point the content expansion is the only thing able to be played with a potential smidgeon of balance, while the rest of the solar system collapses under a button press of the usual player.

 

Radial spam is unhealthy for the game. We're seeing lots more grind and unfair RNG because of it.

A play style is a play style, whether we like it or not. Calling it "less of a play style" simply because we don't use it or don't like it isn't validating our points, it just makes us look like stuck ups who don't like how other people do things because they don't do it like we do. It's targeting is limited to how many units are in the area, and it isn't infinite x-ray because it's in a set area, as per player modding and the baseline range of the ability. Radial Javelin has moderate damage with a few seconds of stun, when compared to other ults. His Slash Dash is a good movement and utility ability, Radial Blind was nerfed because,people exactly like how they're complaining now with RJ in this thread, called it OP for no plausible reason. Oh and now look, you people whine about it being an OP ability when in all reality it was a good ability, now see it's traits moved over to an ability you all now hate. Now who's fault is that for complaining too much? Super Jump can actually be useful, and again, good utility ability with some area stun to work for CC and gets you out of a sticky situation if used nicely enough. You realize that Radial Javelin is an ultimate ability, right? It's supposed to be the crowning jewel in the set, because it costs the most and it's the big boom ability in his set. Oh it has it's limitations, that annoying casting time and the annoyance of the damage of the ability being split among the 3 damage types makes its effectiveness nigh on already hindered against any faction.

 

Radial Javelin is a damage ability (which damage doesn't scale well in this game) with a short stun (a few seconds isn't that helpful in higher content). Whoa whoa whoa, don't go blaming abilities for the fusion core changes, nor key grinding, nor anything of that ludicrous statement. You have no credible evidence for anything for that, so don't go and point fingers when you don't even have any proof. Honestly, that was an absurd statement outright, and stating abilities as the source of all this is complete and utter folly. Enemies that resist our abilities isn't a bad thing, they (if done right, of which Nullifiers need some fixes) can offer unique challenges on the battlefield.

 

No, you don't nerf abilities simply to make the others look better. You help other abilities along to make them better and more appealing to use. Oh enough with that nonsense. You wanna know why the solar map is easy for us? BECAUSE WE HAVE THE BLOODY MODS MAXED OUT TO KILL EVERYTHING IN THE BLOODY VOID! EVERYTHING LOWER THAN THE BLOODY VOID IS GOING TO DIE BECAUSE WE BROUGHT THINGS TO THOSE PLACES THAT KILL THINGS ABOVE THEIR LEVEL! IT IS NOT POWERS AT FAULT HERE! NO ONE IS! WE ARE FREE to take our gear where we wish. IT IS THE CASE OF EVERY GAME WITH PROGRESSION AND REPLAY ABILITY THAT IF YOU TAKE YOUR HIGHER TIER GEAR INTO LOWER TIER CONTENT, YOU ARE GOING TO DESTROY EVERYTHING! Is that a bad thing? NO! Because that's how you made it. That's the level of gear you brought along, and no one in their right mind nor wrongness has the authority to tell you you cannot do that. That should NEVER be the case.

 

Expansions are good, hurting abilities is bad. Radial abilities are fine, don't you go blaming them for our grind problems when you have ABSOLUTELY no credible proof, no math, no sources, no NOTHING and start blaming abilities for it. It makes me sick that people think that's the case. Ability spam is fine, your attitude towards it and blaming it for the grindiness of the game, however, is unfounded and very wrong.

[geninrising]

My point was the Mirage is more efficient for that kind of kill farming and I stand by that. I know people don't use her as much for multiple reasons like not having her but she does have a better ultimate. When people say Radial Javelin is OP, they should really look at Mirage. Her ability is Excalibur's two best abilities combined and improved. The blind effect doesn't even have a line of sight requirement like his. The damage, energy efficiency, and range of her Ult is higher than his.

Mirages ult costs more and has LoS requirement for the entirety of it's damage= worse than Radial Javelin. That's precicesly why he is used instead of others. Massive range plus good damage= better. Additionally I'd love to see a mirage build that in one hit can produce 1500-2k damage on her ult.

[jmforeman02]

Mirages ult costs more and has LoS requirement for the entirety of it's damage= worse than Radial Javelin. That's precicesly why he is used instead of others. Massive range plus good damage= better. Additionally I'd love to see a mirage build that in one hit can produce 1500-2k damage on her ult.

Her Ult doesn't cost more than Excalibur's. Assuming no mods his ult costs 100 to activate and deals 1,000 damage. Her's costs 50 to activate and 10 for each second after, doing 1,000 damage per second. That means that for 60 energy Mirage does what Excalibur can do for 100 and she will get a blind effect on top of the damage. Hers gets even more efficient when you don't end it after 1 second because she won't have to pay the 50 activation cost again. For 100 energy, same as excalibur's ultimate, she will do 5,000 damage over 5 seconds. That's way better than excal. For him to do the same damage with an unmodded Radial Javelin would require 500 energy and more than 5 seconds because his animation is kinda slow and he has to do it each cast. The energy and damage will scale the same way with mods, so mods don't matter. Her damage numbers look low, about 250, but it hits 4 times per second, that's 1,000 per second unmodded. If you want to see 1,500-2k damage on her ult, just mod it the same way you would Excalibur's and you'll see it every second. It's true that her damage is line of sight, but that rarely matters because you can make her ball go behind or above obstacles. Oh and the range on her ult is better too along with her energy capacity which means that it's more spammable. Her ult is way better than his for almost anything.

Edited February 11, 2015 by jmforeman02

[geninrising]

Her Ult doesn't cost more than Excalibur's. Assuming no mods his ult costs 100 to activate and deals 1,000 damage. Her's costs 50 to activate and 10 for each second after doing 1,000 damage per second. That means that for 60 energy Mirage does what Excalibur can do for 100 and she will get a blind effect on top of the damage. Hers gets even more efficient when you don't end it after 1 second because she won't have to pay the 50 activation cost again. For 100 energy, same as excalibur's ultimate, she will do 5,000 damage over 5 seconds. That's way better than excal. The energy and damage will scale the same way with mods, so mods don't matter. Her damage numbers look low, about 250, but it hits about 4 times per second, that's 1,000 per second unmodded. If you want to see 1,500-2k damage on her ult, just mod it the same way you would Excalibur's. It's true that her damage is line of sight, but that rarely matters because you can make her ball go behind or above obstacles. Oh and the range on her ult is better too along with her energy capacity which means that it's more spammable. Her ult is way better than his for almost anything.

LOL her ult does not hit for 1k damage per second by any means. With my build setup without blind rage using only Intensify and Transient fortitude I hit approximately 800 per second less by a small margin in any circumstance involving higher armored targets. Ult lasts 8 seconds to kill roughly 10-15 targets given the LoS requirement for the lasers. I will give her ult the top ranger as it can hit 100 meters radius with overextended and stretch, however her damage is nowhere near Excals within his 50m range he hits UNLIMITED targets and therefore is more by default, mirage even with maximum efficiency must expend 2x as much energy as excal in order to kill the same number of targets sometimes as her ult is target limited and the LoS mechanic outright ignores those beneath cover or behind objects. In a flat open area she is able to out DPS Excal such as on Cerberus Pluto which I have done many times but on any other map it is massively difficult for her due to the LoS mechanic. There is a good reason RJ was used the most out of the entire roster of all WF abilities to kill things.

Edited February 11, 2015 by geninrising

[jmforeman02]

LOL her ult does not hit for 1k damage per second by any means. With my build setup without blind rage using only Intensify and Transient fortitude I hit approximately 800 per second less by a small margin in any circumstance involving higher armored targets. Ult lasts 8 seconds to kill roughly 10-15 targets given the LoS requirement for the lasers. I will give her ult the top ranger as it can hit 100 meters radius with overextended and stretch, however her damage is nowhere near Excals within his 50m range he hits UNLIMITED targets and therefore is more by default, mirage even with maximum efficiency must expend 2x as much energy as excal in order to kill the same number of targets sometimes as her ult is target limited and the LoS mechanic outright ignores those beneath cover or behind objects. In a flat open area she is able to out DPS Excal such as on Cerberus Pluto which I have done many times but on any other map it is massively difficult for her due to the LoS mechanic. There is a good reason RJ was used the most out of the entire roster of all WF abilities to kill things.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Prism

That's a good place to start. It does does do 1k damage per second to 20 targets at a time (not 10-15). And even if it didn't the energy efficiency and persistence alone would make it better. Even if there were 60 targets in range, it would only take 3 seconds to do 1,000 damage to each, costing you 80 energy which is less than the 100 it would cost Excalibur. There would have to be over 100 enemies within Excalibur's range (not Mirage's substantially larger range) at the same time to make Excalibur do more damage with 100 energy. And if any of those enemies require something other than a multiple of 1,000 damage to die, her Prism gets even better since it can distribute the damage where it's needed instead of dealing 1,000 to everyone. Once you add that her ball stays to kill everyone who walks in range after, it's not even close. Then it blinds anyone left standing. I have seriously never had a problem with her Ult's LoS requirement for the damage. It doesn't have to be within LoS of you, just the ball, so just launch the ball where it needs to go. If you can't manage that then there is no saving you. As for armor effects, she deals radiation which means she gets bonuses for heavy grineer and corpus robotic. His damage is split across the three physicals. Which is better depends on the enemies.

Edited February 11, 2015 by jmforeman02

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

Who plays a Warframe without any mods? >,< 

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

My point was the Mirage is more efficient for that kind of kill farming and I stand by that. I know people don't use her as much for multiple reasons like not having her but she does have a better ultimate. When people say Radial Javelin is OP, they should really look at Mirage. Her ability is Excalibur's two best abilities combined and improved. The blind effect doesn't even have a line of sight requirement like his. The damage, energy efficiency, and range of her Ult is higher than his.

 

As far as radiation damage is concerned with Mirage's Prism, it's normal against Corpus and Grinneer, but super weak against Infested. Radial Javelin has slash, impact and puncture thats good for every enemy except robots.

 

If you would like to know more about his damage killing potential read the previous posts please.

Edited February 12, 2015 by (PS4)AwkwardMonkers

[jmforeman02]

Who plays a Warframe without any mods? >,<

No one but since the mods effect both abilities the same way, there's no point in taking them into account. I pointed that out in a previous post.

As far as radiation damage is concerned with Mirage's Prism, it's normal against Corpus and Grinneer, but super weak against Infested. Radial Javelin has slash, impact and puncture thats good for every enemy except robots.

If you would like to know more about his damage killing potential read the previous posts please.

Umm no. I don't care how many times you posted something that's wrong. Radiation gets bonuses to heavy grineer and corpus robotic. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Radiation_Damage

Edited February 12, 2015 by jmforeman02

[CryvernX]

this guy is angry because some noob did more damage than him, leave him alone everybody knows RJ is ok and there are things waaay more broken ... loki, mirage, nyx. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by CryvernX

[MechaKnight]

this guy is angry because some noob did more damage than him, leave him alone everybody knows RJ is ok and there are things waaay more broken ... loki, mirage, nyx. 

Radial Javelin: infinite target radial damage and stun.

Loki: infinite target radial to remove guns from enemies (new and improved automatic gladiator arena augment!)

Mirage: can deploy mobile automatic rapid-selection radial with damage, and can explode for radial stun.

Nyx: infinite target radial for instant gladiator arena, infinite target radial for swallowing combined enemy damage and shooting it all back onto each enemy in the radius.

 

The problem isn't just Excalibur. The problem is infinite target radials with massive 2*pi*r^3 range that do everything you want your warframe to do. Why use any other ability when you can use one ability to hit infinite targets in a huge spherical area for damage + stun, or damage multiplier + slow + explosion, or damage + defense removal + healing + self shielding?

 

The major problem is there is no reason to play with skill and variety when it is much more rewarding to spam one lazy ability with better effect than anything else you can use. There's no reason to not exploit this system when RNG drop rates and void trader prices rise and punish everyone equally. There's no reason to not spam radials if things like nullifiers are released to punish everyone because of some bad apples spamming radials. Ironically, it's easy to trivialize nullifiers with radial spam by killing all enemies in the room before any walk into his protective bubble.

 

Infinite target radials are the problem in general. They do not reward you for using your other abilities, or dodging, or planning for complicated abilities. They do all of that, and attempting to try hard and use the rest of your kit only leaves you in the dust when you're wasting time not spamming your best ability. If you choose to play fairly, just know a patch is around the corner that somehow punishes everyone except spammers, because they worked ahead of the nerf punishment far ahead of any non-spammer. Know that all the effort you've wasted in mastering this game and all abilities is useless, when pressing one button really is the best way to play. The most damage, the most stun, and even things like damage buffing and having enemies attack each other. No other ability comes close. Why bother?

[AlphaHorseman]

this guy is angry because some noob did more damage than him, leave him alone everybody knows RJ is ok and there are things waaay more broken ... loki, mirage, nyx. 

None of those frames are broken, they're very good frames.

 

Loki's kit allows you to go either the invisibility route or CC route. Switch Teleport is a very useful and good tool. In conjunction with Decoy, it's a good power for movement and also for removing aggro. That's a very good and very versatile kit. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

Mirage has the always fun (for me) Disco Ball of Death, the thing I usually go for. Eclipse helps you mitigate incoming damage or buff outgoing, which is a good ability to have. Hall of Mirrors is a great ability for keeping the heat off of you and adding in some extra damage to your enemies. Sleight of Hand is fun, and can work well with AoE defense if you're in an area that can support that.

 

Nyx's kit is a great CC kit. You can build for efficiency with Absorb to help reverse incoming damage. Chaos benefits as well, and adding in range helps you spread...the Chaos, haha. Psychic Bolt's lack of CC makes it annoying, but on lower levels the thing is fun to use when in an open area. Launch many of them up into the air and watch as the oncoming squads are shredded to bits. Ah that always makes me smile. Adding in some CC and it's a solid ability. Mind Control can be a powerful ability when applied to a key target, say a heavy unit, and is useful for helping you in Solo if you need a decoy or minion to take some of the aggro.

 

Overall, all these frames are good. Sure, a few abilities need tune ups, but their kits are viable. If anything, all our frames should have this level of competence and usefulness within their kits. Adding in Crowd Control and Utility to our powers would help with that a lot.

 

Radial Javelin: infinite target radial damage and stun.

Loki: infinite target radial to remove guns from enemies (new and improved automatic gladiator arena augment!)

Mirage: can deploy mobile automatic rapid-selection radial with damage, and can explode for radial stun.

Nyx: infinite target radial for instant gladiator arena, infinite target radial for swallowing combined enemy damage and shooting it all back onto each enemy in the radius.

 

The problem isn't just Excalibur. The problem is infinite target radials with massive 2*pi*r^3 range that do everything you want your warframe to do. Why use any other ability when you can use one ability to hit infinite targets in a huge spherical area for damage + stun, or damage multiplier + slow + explosion, or damage + defense removal + healing + self shielding?

 

The major problem is there is no reason to play with skill and variety when it is much more rewarding to spam one lazy ability with better effect than anything else you can use. There's no reason to not exploit this system when RNG drop rates and void trader prices rise and punish everyone equally. There's no reason to not spam radials if things like nullifiers are released to punish everyone because of some bad apples spamming radials. Ironically, it's easy to trivialize nullifiers with radial spam by killing all enemies in the room before any walk into his protective bubble.

 

Infinite target radials are the problem in general. They do not reward you for using your other abilities, or dodging, or planning for complicated abilities. They do all of that, and attempting to try hard and use the rest of your kit only leaves you in the dust when you're wasting time not spamming your best ability. If you choose to play fairly, just know a patch is around the corner that somehow punishes everyone except spammers, because they worked ahead of the nerf punishment far ahead of any non-spammer. Know that all the effort you've wasted in mastering this game and all abilities is useless, when pressing one button really is the best way to play. The most damage, the most stun, and even things like damage buffing and having enemies attack each other. No other ability comes close. Why bother?

You pretty much just disregarded so many good builds with those generalizations of those frames.

 

Oh there is no problem. You perceive it as a problem because you do not like how those abilities function. You think there is a problem because these abilities do not fit in the paradigm to which you are trying to pigeonhole it into. You do not like that abilities can function well and do their jobs. I do not understand why, but you do. There is nothing wrong with those abilities, they are merely tools, we decide what to do with those tools. However we decide, that is our choice, not the choice of anyone else but our own. And that, is how it should be.

 

The only thing you got right is that other abilities are lacking. The rest of it was all your perspective on the matter. However, rather than hurting an ability simply because it is good, you help the other abilities so that they are objectively good and can scale. Integrating scale ability through the mechanics of CC and Utility, would greatly help many WarFrames kits to be on par with the scale ability of Loki's, or Nyx's. Hurting WarFrame abilities simply because they are good does nothing for the game but hurt it, and its player base. It does not solve any problems, but only makes more people angry and makes the problems worse.

 

People play as they will, Mecha, trying to forcibly change the game to make them play like how you want them to, or how you think they should play, is very wrong.

[MotherofHermes]

snip

Okay. fine. let's say my favorite tool is slash dash. it's my favorite move on the kit. I don't want to cast anything else, but slash dash. I mod for it. 

 

the guy modding for radial javalin is going to get: more damage. more stuns. faster clears. more xp. more rewards. 

 

I have been punished for picking the wrong playstyle. i get less stuff. less rewards. in a pve game rewards determine how well u are doing at the game. whether this be credits, shiny stuff, or a rising number on a scoreboard. 

 

this is not my perception. this is fact. the radial javalin guy will kick my ! at getting stuff. i AM punished for not using that playstyle. 

 

fine. i'll even say i have also modding accordingly for radial blind and super jump as well. but i can't cast these powers at the same time. 

 

the previous statements are true. i get less stuff. i have slower clears. i have harder times on defenses. i get less xp in survivals. my teammates fall down more. this is what some people may refer to as "being less efficient"

 

DE is aware of this with recent daily rewards and rep changes. however. the fact remains that radial javalin stuns and damages at the same time while radial blind only stuns and slash dash hits only so many enemies in a line while putting me at risk at the end of the animation. 

 

in a game about killing things we sometimes come away from playstyle and enter the realm of right and wrong. in many situations i could blind some of the enemies or stun and deal damage to many of them. the second choice is often the correct one as dead is the best status effect and stunned and/or dead sounds much better to me than blinded. it gets me to the goal of the game: killing stuff at a faster rate. the guy who chose blinded isn't killing stuff as fast (the goal of the game) so he isn't doing as well as i am now that i've killed more things or stopped more things from killing me (or us). radial blind is way too often the wrong choice and radial stun/kill is way to often the correct one. this needs to be changed. 

 

playstyles should be rapped up in frames. not abilites. if someone wants to play a radial nuker that's fine. but what the bloody hell is it doing on a frame named "excalibur" (the name of king Arthur's sword). if the sword named frame gets a radial nuke. how about my nekros. doesn't he get one. shouldn't he have a radial nuke to fit my want of a playstyle for that too? No. that would be silly. you can argue "playstyle and perception" all day. but playstyle should be locked in at frame select. do you realize the amount of work that would have to be done in order for slash dash and radial blind to be worth using over RJ? shouldn't the frames being using all of their powers? if only 1 is good for a playstyle doesn't that playstyle belong on a different frame? isn't that one power killing the playstyle for everyone else who got that frame for doing "X" job? valkyr is a melee frame done right. all of her powers fit the "melee" playstyle correctly. Excal is a melee frame done wrong: his 4th power doesn't fit. If you want a playstyle of radial explosions great. put it on frames that make sense: like ember. the fire frame. of explosions. yeah!

 

tl;dr

playstyles are fine. but for my playstyle i should be picking one frame. not one ability.

Edited February 12, 2015 by milesthefox

[AlphaHorseman]

Okay. fine. let's say my favorite tool is slash dash. it's my favorite move on the kit. I don't want to cast anything else, but slash dash. I mod for it. 

 

the guy modding for radial javalin is going to get: more damage. more stuns. faster clears. more xp. more rewards. 

 

I have been punished for picking the wrong playstyle. i get less stuff. less rewards. in a pve game rewards determine how well u are doing at the game. whether this be credits, shiny stuff, or a rising number on a scoreboard. 

 

this is not my perception. this is fact. the radial javalin guy will kick my ! at getting stuff. i AM punished for not using that playstyle. 

 

fine. i'll even say i have also modding accordingly for radial blind and super jump as well. but i can't cast these powers at the same time. 

 

the previous statements are true. i get less stuff. i have slower clears. i have harder times on defenses. i get less xp in survivals. my teammates fall down more. this is what some people may refer to as "being less efficient"

 

DE is aware of this with recent daily rewards and rep changes. however. the fact remains that radial javalin stuns and damages at the same time while radial blind only stuns and slash dash hits only so many enemies in a line while putting me at risk at the end of the animation. 

 

in a game about killing things we sometimes come away from playstyle and enter the realm of right and wrong. in many situations i could blind some of the enemies or stun and deal damage to many of them. the second choice is often the correct one as dead is the best status effect and stunned and/or dead sounds much better to me than blinded. it gets me to the goal of the game: killing stuff at a faster rate. the guy who chose blinded isn't killing stuff as fast (the goal of the game) so he isn't doing as well as i am now that i've killed more things or stopped more things from killing me (or us). radial blind is way too often the wrong choice and radial stun/kill is way to often the correct one. this needs to be changed. 

 

playstyles should be rapped up in frames. not abilites. if someone wants to play a radial nuker that's fine. but what the bloody hell is it doing on a frame named "excalibur" (the name of king Arthur's sword). if the sword named frame gets a radial nuke. how about my nekros. doesn't he get one. shouldn't he have a radial nuke to fit my want of a playstyle for that too? No. that would be silly. you can argue "playstyle and perception" all day. but playstyle should be locked in at frame select. do you realize the amount of work that would have to be done in order for slash dash and radial blind to be worth using over RJ? shouldn't the frames being using all of their powers? if only 1 is good for a playstyle doesn't that playstyle belong on a different frame? isn't that one power killing the playstyle for everyone else who got that frame for doing "X" job? valkyr is a melee frame done right. all of her powers fit the "melee" playstyle correctly. Excal is a melee frame done wrong: his 4th power doesn't fit. If you want a playstyle of radial explosions great. put it on frames that make sense: like ember. the fire frame. of explosions. yeah!

 

tl;dr

playstyles are fine. but for my playstyle i should be picking one frame. not one ability.

Ah but see, that's the thing, you're comparing a movement ability, and an ability with (now limited) CC to a radial ability. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Not to mention you're comparing a first ability to a fourth ability. The Frames themselves have a theme, sure, but that doesn't mean that they should only fit one play style. The beauty of the system is that, although DE does give us the base frame, it is pretty much an open Canvas, and we are allowed to paint onto that canvas whatever we wish. The Frames are the Canvas, the mods the paint. Diversity within a Frames Power Kit helps to grow it's versatility and usability outside of just one play style, but opens up the avenue for other styles as well.

 

Take for instance, Loki. The God Of Mischief as his Archetype, sneaking around and being a sly guy in stealth and cunning would be his theme. But how does Radial Disarm fit into this theme? It doesn't fit into the Loki theme, but it does help to round out his kit with versatility. None of Loki's powers do damage, but they are all useful abilities. Switch Teleport can get you out of nasty situations, and paired with Decoy it can give you the slip on enemies. Even Decoy alone is a great ability for taking the heat off of you. Now look at Invisibility, sure, this could fit Asgardian Loki's theme, and players are allowed to specialize their build for perma invis builds, which is great, because you can play your way and enjoy it! Radial Disarm is a very powerful ability, of course it doesn't do damage, but it can help you keep enemies with ranged combatants from killing you outside of stealth. All his abilities are good abilities alone, but they also can synergize very well together. They don't fit the theme of Loki together, but they do synergize well with one another, or are useful alone.

 

Another good example is Nyx. Her namesake is a Goddess of Night, but are any of her powers about Night? Nope, not a single one. Absorb reverts incoming damage, very useful and a power that scales well. Chaos causes well...chaos on the battlefield. Psychic Bolts just needs some CC like a stun, and then it's a solid ability. Mind Control can be very powerful when used on certain units, heavies or high damage enemy units for example. Does any of it fit the theme of Night? Heck no! It would've been better to name her after the Goddess of Chaos, Eris. Or Professor X, whichever you prefer. But getting back on point, her powers aren't all similar, as I don't know how Absorb is similar to any of her other abilities that deal with the mind, but they synergize very well together, and even alone and for specialized builds this is useful.

 

In essence, a theme for frames is cool, but it should not entirely dictate how the frame should be played. Versatility in a WarFrames kit can still keep with it's theme, but also helps to allow players to mod and play as they wish, as is the case with most anything else in this game. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. Buffing up those other powers to be good, however, helps to synergize a kit well and also make specializing it also a good option.

Edited February 12, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[elixze]

I use Excal at times, but I didn't knwo you could use such a combo :P.  No wonder my RJ does so lil dmg xD

[GhostMelody]

Nope, nerf it the same way or similar to the way rhino stomp was nerfed

Give it a cooldown it's well deserved. DE has been trying to solve this loot-caving issue, and quite honestly I think a spam able hot like that that does that much damage should definitely be nerfed the same way rhino stomp got its own.

Not saying shame on any of who has done this but he'll yea, nerf dat and any other spam able ult if they result to more loot-caving, but only after you fix the whole grinding issue in an effective way DE

[tris1]

Nope, nerf it the same way or similar to the way rhino stomp was nerfed

Give it a cooldown it's well deserved. DE has been trying to solve this loot-caving issue, and quite honestly I think a spam able hot like that that does that much damage should definitely be nerfed the same way rhino stomp got its own.

Not saying shame on any of who has done this but he'll yea, nerf dat and any other spam able ult if they result to more loot-caving, but only after you fix the whole grinding issue in an effective way DE

u want to nerf Excalibur again then you better increase the duration of the stun on radial javelin and while also buffing super jump and buffing radial blind

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

My point was the Mirage is more efficient for that kind of kill farming and I stand by that. I know people don't use her as much for multiple reasons like not having her but she does have a better ultimate. When people say Radial Javelin is OP, they should really look at Mirage. Her ability is Excalibur's two best abilities combined and improved. The blind effect doesn't even have a line of sight requirement like his. The damage, energy efficiency, and range of her Ult is higher than his.

 

If your going to "stand by it no matter what" you close all other suggestions of your mind. Suggestions and explanations will still be their, but your going to ignore them no matter how sound they may be. 

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

No one but since the mods effect both abilities the same way, there's no point in taking them into account. I pointed that out in a previous post.

Umm no. I don't care how many times you posted something that's wrong. Radiation gets bonuses to heavy grineer and corpus robotic. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Radiation_Damage

 

Their is barely any alloy plate Grinners listed to be counted as beneficial. What are you gonna do kill 2 types of enemies your whole mission, so you can get the 75% bonus? 25% against robotic and -25% against shields. Most robotics have shield that bonus cancels each other out.

 

Compared to Viral, Radiation is pretty bad. Viral half's the enemies health for you to kill them faster, versus Radiations confusion. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by (PS4)AwkwardMonkers

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

I use Excal at times, but I didn't knwo you could use such a combo :P.  No wonder my RJ does so lil dmg xD

Experiment my friend you will not regret it.

[RealPandemonium]

Their is barely any alloy plate Grinners listed to be counted as beneficial. What are you gonna do kill 2 types of enemies your whole mission, so you can get the 75% bonus? 25% against robotic and -25% against shields. Most robotics have shield that bonus cancels each other out.

 

Compared to Viral, Radiation is pretty bad. Viral half's the enemies health for you to kill them faster, versus Radiations confusion. 

Elite Lancers, Corrupted Lancers, Eviscerators, Bombards, and Napalms aren't relevant?  Radiation is also bad against Corpus, that guy was reaching when he mentioned them.  

[jmforeman02]

If your going to "stand by it no matter what" you close all other suggestions of your mind. Suggestions and explanations will still be their, but your going to ignore them no matter how sound they may be. 

 

Lol. I didn't say that I would "stand by it no matter what." You're putting words in my mouth. It shows how desperate you are that you are attacking things I never said rather than presenting evidence, or showing a problem with my math. I said that I stand by my statement that mirage's  ult is better than Excalibur's because I have reason to do so. I presented math and evidence to support my position. You've presented nothing but assertions. I have therefore stuck by my well supported argument and not given into your baseless argument. That's not being close minded. That's being rational. You're the one being close minded for not allowing evidence to sway your opinion. When you finally offer some evidence, I'll consider it. Until then, there is only one side to consider.

 

Their is barely any alloy plate Grinners listed to be counted as beneficial. What are you gonna do kill 2 types of enemies your whole mission, so you can get the 75% bonus? 25% against robotic and -25% against shields. Most robotics have shield that bonus cancels each other out.

 

Compared to Viral, Radiation is pretty bad. Viral half's the enemies health for you to kill them faster, versus Radiations confusion. 

Radiation is the standard anti-grineer elemental combo for people who know what they are doing. It is strong against alloy armor which is what's on the heaviest grineer units. That's why the Detron (an anti-grineer shotgun pistol) does it's damage in radiation. Viral is not a good choice. People have tested and found out that you're much better off targeting their armor than their health. That's also why puncture is better than slash for grineer. The Detron, dark dagger, and dark sword allow you to have radiation and corrosive at the same time which is amazingly good against grineer. Point is, radiation is king against grineer.

 

You should also keep in mind that Excalibur's Radial Javelin uses all three IPS damage types. This means that no matter the type of enemy or enemy hitpoint about 1/3 of the damage will get a bonus, 1/3 will be neutral, and 1/3 will get a penalty. In other words it will usually deal around 1,000 damage regardless of the enemy. Mirage's Prism will be better than that against some enemies and worse against others. She will be very effective against grineer, average against corpus, and bad against infested. That being said, because her power is better than excal's she can afford some damage penalties without becoming less effective.

 

Elite Lancers, Corrupted Lancers, Eviscerators, Bombards, and Napalms aren't relevant?  Radiation is also bad against Corpus, that guy was reaching when he mentioned them.  

 

I wasn't reaching, I was only saying that radiation does bonus damage against corpus robotic. And that's true. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Radiation_Damage

She isn't bad against corpus, she's not as good as she is against grineer but she's still usually the frame with the most damage and kills on Cerberus. 

Edited February 14, 2015 by jmforeman02