Kohm Got Over-Optimized!

[Suthurn]

just get rid of the spool up sound-effect and i would be happy. that ticking like its a broken clock is so annoying...  i built it and leveled it to about rank 6 and havent bother to equip since. its just tick-tick-tick-tick-tick the entire time i play, cant do it. 

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

No Thank you what you are suggesting is Kohm when it was realesed fast firing low dmg garbage. I garantie you willbe out off ammo at 5 minute mark on mercury with ammo mutation and shotgun scavenger.

 

Because 50k DPS with my suggested change is garbage. I recommend looking up "garbage" in the dictionary. I'll even put a link for you: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/garbage?s=t

 

What if my suggested change made it only consume 1 ammo per shot to make up for the fire rate loss? That's an increase in ammo efficiency. Both of your statements are utterly invalid.

Edited March 18, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[HandsomeSorcerer]

That 100k DPS only happens if you hit the enemy at their virtual faces. 

I dont mind a nerf in DPS, but then, I rarely use it and I use it for trash cleaning and infested and I almost never play vs the infested any more.

[BluelitHalo]

Kohm is fine.

It's the only Shotgun that rewards you more than any other weapon in the game for getting up close, and crowd-clearing is still decent even after the nerf.  What more could you guys possibly want out of the thing when it's already Boltor Prime tier?

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Dont confuse ammo efficiency with ammo capacity. The Kohm has an enormous magazine and lots of reserve ammo, but it doesn't gain much from shotgun ammo pickups so you are doomed to run dry at some point. You won't notice that outside of non-endless missions normally since the initial spare ammo suffices for quite some time. Also deriving ammo efficiency from pellet count is really questionable, there's a lot of more reasonable ways of improving it.

 

Even after an hour of T4S with questionable trigger discipline I still have full mag and 960 in reserve, as of now, it's pretty much impossible to run out of ammo.

 

And I was not the one that decided that Kohm should use more ammo with increased pellet count, don't blame me.

Sorry but what you suggest will not bring it's "charms" back you are asking to make it GODMODE weapon!? You are asking increase dmg to 100 and firerate to 3.7. and 7 pelletes. Do you know about balance with this characteristic it will destroy other weapons lIke Soma and bolter prime. 

Excuse me sir, but which part of "increase pellet count and decrease damage per pellet" you don't seem to understand? I'm asking to turn 1 slug of 100 damage into 10 pellets, 10 damage each.

 

Kohm is fine.

It's the only Shotgun that rewards you more than any other weapon in the game for getting up close, and crowd-clearing is still decent even after the nerf.  What more could you guys possibly want out of the thing when it's already Boltor Prime tier?

Kohm is above and beyond every other weapon in this game.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Mofixil

[Sziklamester]

I am pretty sure in this year they will ruin some working systems and nerf the normal weapons. This game is deserved the broken title.

 

edit: A little more harmony they could check what weapons need more nerf/buff and what isn't. Still have a lot of useless weapon because they never end give more op weapons. gg

[Dunkingmachine]

Even after an hour of T4S with questionable trigger discipline I still have full mag and 960 in reserve, as of now, it's pretty much impossible to run out of ammo.

 

 

Really? What was your setup? Did you camp? Have a Nekros? Use 4x CP? How many kills did you do compared to your squadmates? Because when doing a 1h+ solo run in t4s, i had to switch to my secondary at ~50 minutes despite having shotgun ammo mutation on.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Dunkingmachine

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Really? What was your setup? Did you camp? Have a Nekros? Use 4x CP? How many kills did you do compared to your squadmates? Because when doing a 1h+ solo run in t4s, i had to switch to my secondary at ~50 minutes despite having shotgun ammo mutation on.

Running around a single room. Hydroid with Pilfering Swarm, using 1x ES. I've been soloing and I can quite easily do it once again.

Same for Loki with Irradiating Disarm, although the build is focused on duration with some range added to it.

 

Build.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Mofixil

[Dunkingmachine]

Running around a single room. Hydroid with Pilfering Swarm, using 1x ES. I've been soloing and I can quite easily do it once again.

Same for Loki with Irradiating Disarm, although the build is focused on duration with some range added to it.

 

Build.

 

Leaving aside how terrible Blunderbuss is on the Kohm, you do have ammo mutation equipped which should absolutely not be the baseline of determining a gun's ammo efficiency, ever. But at least that explains everything, using ammo pickups from your team easily closes the loop.

[hoeskioeh]

Kohm is fine as it is. Yes, it was better, but no, it is still extremely good...

Melts through nullifiers like soft butter.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

using ammo pickups from your team easily closes the loop.

>solo

Talk about team.

However, lemme clarify one thing.

I do not, and I have never stated that current Kohm is objectively bad.

(as the only thing I said that it's simply worse than it was before)

Somewhat inconsistent, nerfed for no reason, yes. But not bad by any means.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Mofixil

[Dunkingmachine]

>solo

Talk about team.

However, lemme clarify one thing.

I do not, and I have never stated that current Kohm is objectively bad.

(as the only thing I said that it's simply worse than it was before)

Somewhat inconsistent, nerfed for no reason, yes. But not bad by any means.

 

Read your post wrong about the team. Pilfering Swarm does give you more ammo though.

 

About its state, i didn't accuse you of claiming it would be bad so i don't see the need of you doing so, but whatever. Though i can't understand how you can argue against the "nerf for no reason" when you even admit it's still better or even the best out of all alternatives. A "unique feeling/charm" is incredibly subjective and doesn't justify a dps buff.

 

I do however accuse you of giving a false image of the gun's ammo efficiency, calling it highly efficient and "impossible to run out of ammo" while running ammo mutation is ridiculous. When a mutation mod becomes a core part of your build it should tell you that ammo efficiency is a problem.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Dunkingmachine

[Mesyra]

I'd like two more pellets at full fire rate. I would like the charge up speed to be a bit faster though, it could use a slight damage redux, slight buff to fire rate, and 2 more pellets.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

I do however accuse you of giving a false image of the gun's ammo efficiency, calling it highly efficient and "impossible to run out of ammo" while running ammo mutation is ridiculous. When a mutation mod becomes a core part of your build it should tell you that ammo efficiency is a problem.

Now we are talking and I can honestly say that I agree!

 

I'd like two more pellets at full fire rate. I would like the charge up speed to be a bit faster though, it could use a slight damage redux, slight buff to fire rate, and 2 more pellets.

This ^

[(PSN)Zeylon]

PS4 recently got an update, and the Kohm was changed.

 

It's current stats are:

 

18/6/6 dmg (30 total), 3.7 fire rate. Crit: 10%, Status: 25%

 

Maybe it was a future change to the PC version that went through for us instead.  Needless to say, I'm not terribly pleased.

[BluelitHalo]

PS4 recently got an update, and the Kohm was changed.

 

It's current stats are:

 

18/6/6 dmg (30 total), 3.7 fire rate. Crit: 10%, Status: 25%

 

Maybe it was a future change to the PC version that went through for us instead.  Needless to say, I'm not terribly pleased.

So its sustained damage output got shafted by half and ammo efficiency shafted by a third.  Status on Shotguns is already a joke to begin with, so nothing special there.

 

Estimating 45k sustained DPS with Primed Point Blank, 35k with normal Point Blank.  Gotta get close enough to land half the pellets in order to break even with most of the best weapons in the game minus Synoid.  Good thing it still has innate punchthrough and can spread out damage in bunched up crowds that way.

 

But then again, did the pellet count get increased as well? I've heard that the Kohm became hitscan on the PS4, so without the GPU-killing projectile pellets, that would justify some increase in pellet count.  That component was nerfed for optimization reasons, after all.

Disregard.  Kohm has basically been reverted to its pre-pellet count nerf version stats-wise, now with hitscan and damage falloff.

 

Edited March 20, 2015 by Sonitorum

[(PSN)Zeylon]

So its sustained damage output got shafted by half and ammo efficiency shafted by a third.  Status on Shotguns is already a joke to begin with, so nothing special there.

 

Estimating 45k sustained DPS with Primed Point Blank, 35k with normal Point Blank.  Gotta get close enough to land half the pellets in order to break even with most of the best weapons in the game minus Synoid.  Good thing it still has innate punchthrough and can spread out damage in bunched up crowds that way.

 

But then again, did the pellet count get increased as well? I've heard that the Kohm became hitscan on the PS4, so without the GPU-killing projectile pellets, that would justify some increase in pellet count.  That component was nerfed for optimization reasons, after all.

 

 

It does seem to be hitscan. 

 

This may mean that it was also given damage fall-off (which would really remove one of the only reasons I used it).  The problem with the pellet count business is that's it's hard to tell how many pellets you're firing.  There is no "count" anywhere, and the pellets shift about... and the Kohm's pellet count changes as you spin-up as I recall.

 

I can see the damage stats and fire-rate, and I can tell you it appears to be hitscan.  I could probably try to test it for damage fall-off too, but I honestly have no idea how to tell you the pellet count.  I mean, we know what the patch SAID, but we also know what the patch said is demonstrably false here. 

 

Pellet count isn't even listed in game (that I've ever seen), and I normally look it up on the wiki to see what the pellet counts are.  Since this build is clearly different from the PC build, I can't rely on any datamining on the PC side of things to see what's actually going on with it either...

[Suthurn]

ill just repeat my earlier sentiment. all this weapon needs the spool up sound effect removed and it would be great.

 

it wrecks enemies with minimal modding compared to what other weapons need, so it is obviously fine. 

 

however, i cannot bring myself to potato or forma this thing even though it is extremely efficient at killing enemies. the constant whirring and ticking at full spool just gives me a headache. 

 

here is some advice for you DE: when you go to implement something new, actually use it like all day for several days in a row and see if you still find it pleasing. if not, change it...  because i cannot imagine there being a single person who 'likes' hearing that obnoxious sound effect endlessly. 

[(PSN)Zeylon]

Ok, I can verify the Kohm is now hitscan and has damage fall-off, in addition to the other changes.  Can't quite guess the pellet count, but the ammo consumption seems worse to me.  That might be in my head, I don't know.

[(XBOX)QuadContrl]

Nm. Going to run a few days to conclude.

Edited March 19, 2015 by (XB1)QuadContrl

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Ok, I can verify the Kohm is now hitscan and has damage fall-off, in addition to the other changes.  Can't quite guess the pellet count, but the ammo consumption seems worse to me.  That might be in my head, I don't know.

Could you check how much ammo it uses per shot on full charge? Using Tainted Shell and Critical Decceleration would make it easier.

[dragonkingdx]

Kohm in its current state can still handle lvl 50+ enemies with 4-8 shots and that punch through. I dont really think there is too much wrong with it. Literally a cluster of damage per shot. o,o I use that thing over the overrated boltor prime and soma

 

Could you check how much ammo it uses per shot on full charge? Using Tainted Shell and Critical Decceleration would make it easier.

 

IIRC its like 3-5 per shot

Edited March 19, 2015 by dragonkingdx

[Hatzeputt]

PS4 recently got an update, and the Kohm was changed.

 

It's current stats are:

 

18/6/6 dmg (30 total), 3.7 fire rate. Crit: 10%, Status: 25%

 

Maybe it was a future change to the PC version that went through for us instead.  Needless to say, I'm not terribly pleased.

Oh wow with fall off on top this would be THE falcon punch death grip NERF if I have ever seen one.....I hope this is just a mix up with the upcoming new energy pistol which was kinda advertised as the Kohm pistol version. If this should be true however....wow I will be more than a little miffed about this.

 

Kohm in its current state can still handle lvl 50+ enemies with 4-8 shots and that punch through. I dont really think there is too much wrong with it. Literally a cluster of damage per shot. o,o I use that thing over the overrated boltor prime and soma

 

 

IIRC its like 3-5 per shot

He is talking about the "new" iteration on the PS4 which was deployed yesterday?  

Edited March 19, 2015 by Hatzeputt

[BluelitHalo]

Pellet count isn't even listed in game (that I've ever seen), and I normally look it up on the wiki to see what the pellet counts are. Since this build is clearly different from the PC build, I can't rely on any datamining on the PC side of things to see what's actually going on with it either...

You can try stripping off all mods including multishot, go into a survival mission and don't trigger the alarm, fire at a flat wall from mid-range, and record an off-screen video of yourself firing. Then you can rewatch the recorded and pause it when you see the pellet impact. Count how many pellets have impacted, and you're good.

I don't know if PS4 has a way to record what's on your screen, but I'm pretty sure the XB1 has that feature.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

Could you check how much ammo it uses per shot on full charge? Using Tainted Shell and Critical Decceleration would make it easier.

 

At full spool, it uses exactly 4 rounds per shot.  That might explain why I'm losing ammo so much quicker?