Kohm Got Over-Optimized!

[Alice-in-Wonderland]

I just tested Kohm in Ceres, the damage output of this gun is so much lower than before at mid-long range and unable operate this gun without maxed Ammo Mutation Mods.  Even before this change, Kohm falls off after 40min of T4 Survival and Dev still believe Kohm needed some fkn nerf.  Too bad Devs only test their weapons in Mercury.

 

From my point of view, DE Devs are like "Praise the Boltor P!  Praise the Soma and Soma P! Pfff nobody uses Kohm anyway, lets nerf! We all want our players to use mainstream guns ONLY!"  They are so sensitive about weapons with above average performance except those mainstream weapons.  

 

 

R.I.P.  Kohm - 3/19/2015 - Update 16

 

I shall quit spending $$ on this game, if s!@# like this continues.  I am getting tired.  Really really tired.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

 

I just tested Kohm in Ceres, the damage output of this gun is so much lower than before at mid-long range and unable operate this gun without maxed Ammo Mutation Mods.  Even before this change, Kohm falls off after 40min of T4 Survival and Dev still believe Kohm needed some fkn nerf.  Too bad Devs only test their weapons in Mercury.

 

From my point of view, DE Devs are like "Praise the Boltor P!  Praise the Soma and Soma P! Pfff nobody uses Kohm anyway, lets nerf! We all want our players to use mainstream guns ONLY!"  They are so sensitive about weapons with above average performance except those mainstream weapons.  

 

 

R.I.P.  Kohm - 3/19/2015 - Update 16

 

I shall quit spending $$ on this game, if s!@# like this continues.  I am getting tired.  Really really tired.

 

 

Before the most recent nerf, the Kohm was the only weapon in the game capable of achieving higher DPS than the Synoid Gammacor. Nearly twice the Synoid's, to be precise. Before the nerf, I was of the firm belief that Warframe would have been a better game if the Kohm had never received any stat changes after release, becasue another crappy weapon is preferable to one that makes everything else redundant. I don't understand how anyone could possibly think that this nerf was a bad thing.

 

The 5 forma wasted is really the only legitimate complaint here.

 

I predict ANOTHER warning point for developer bashing in your very near future...

 

I'm putting you into the same category as Hatzeputt. You're both flipping out over a well-deserved nerf to the highest DPS weapon in the game. As I've already told Hatzeputt, if DE lost a paying customer becasue of a well-deserved nerf to the highest DPS weapon in the game, then you probably shouldn't have been playing Warframe anyways.

[Nembilim]

i dont care about the damage or lag or anything like that, i just want the ability to use a gun that was actually fun rather than the brown boltor p and soma p. its the reason why i made Phage my favourite gun and then Khom, the interesting mechanics that they have. the DPS can stay as it is, just give us back the fun firing mechanic and enough ammo efficiency to be able to use it for more than 10 minutes. come on DE, you've been making the game grindwall recently, give me something to tell me your trying to make it fun.

[(XBOX)QuadContrl]

I guess I'm a little confused, being I'm not sure who, and when PC, or console received different nerfs, as to compare.  From what I can somewhat derive, we received the most recent nerf before PC, and now they've just received it?  

 

Am I to assume the complete butchering of the Kohm is permanent on console, and not to expect it to get any worse, or is there one more I should be waiting on when we eventually receive u16?

 

I can't say how a weapon should be envisioned by the developers, but I can be upset.  Not because it's not as powerful as it once was, or how the mechanics have changed, but more on the side that even if I were to assume a nerf would occur, I certainly didn't expect to A: have my corrosive build dmg go from 1800 to 650, and B: top it off with decreasing its ammunition "efficiency" even more. 

 

I was okay with knowing that going in to a long drawn out mission I would be burning through ammo capsules, but making up with sheer power once enemy's were over lvl 50.  

 

The drop off is absolutely noticeable, but it is what it is.  

 

Long story short, in all honestly I would have just moved on to another weapon and not mentioned a thing, but being I spent 5 forma, and probably close to 500 rare fusion cores to the primed mod, when I would have just saved them, being fusion cores aren't as frequent as they once were, it just really makes me feel slighted.  

Edited March 20, 2015 by (XB1)QuadContrl

[Grom-84]

Hitscan requires no physics calculations compared to projectiles with velocity, affected by gravity and being able to ricochet off surfaces.

Nah, this stuff not so complex it is faked all of the time with basic geometry and trigonometry there is no need in a complex precise trajectory calculation or gravity and other stuff like that in a game. For example those nice realistic explosions in Battlefield are nothing more than a full motion video or fmv slapped onto transparent planes they have no volume. As for the particle effects today even cheap chinese tablets can draw them well and the performance of those tablets is 100-1000 times weaker than a low end office pc's. So i'm not buying this)

[Alice-in-Wonderland]

I'm putting you into the same category as Hatzeputt. You're both flipping out over a well-deserved nerf to the highest DPS weapon in the game. As I've already told Hatzeputt, if DE lost a paying customer becasue of a well-deserved nerf to the highest DPS weapon in the game, then you probably shouldn't have been playing Warframe anyways.

 

Thank you for your advice.  I started playing Warframe last summer, I have purchased many Prime Access and made various platinum purchases but I guess its time for me to put down my wallet for this game.  DE Devs simply do not want balance out the games by buffing other "forgotten" weapons to competitive level like Boltor P or Soma P. Kohm was my (and probably many other shotguners') last resort for shotguns then they nerfed it, and so I lost motivation for this game.  They have so much more things to do before balancing PvP, releasing Parkour 2.0, or creating another crappy weapons but they never understand that.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Alice-in-Wonderland

[Haraswift]

I just want the projectiles back. Everything else is fine.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Nah, this stuff not so complex it is faked all of the time with basic geometry and trigonometry there is no need in a complex precise trajectory calculation or gravity and other stuff like that in a game. For example those nice realistic explosions in Battlefield are nothing more than a full motion video or fmv slapped onto transparent planes they have no volume. As for the particle effects today even cheap chinese tablets can draw them well and the performance of those tablets is 100-1000 times weaker than a low end office pc's. So i'm not buying this)

Hitscan is one-frame calculation while projectile can take up to infinite time if there's no predefined time to live.

Also, there's a need for a lot of "complex" trigonometry, or else projectiles would spazz all over the place, there's velocity, gravity, chance to both ricochet and punch through, it's all calculated every frame until the projectile dies by running out of time or hitting the target.

And for the particle effects, ask yourself, how many particles at once can these tablets draw before blowing up?

Edited March 21, 2015 by Mofixil

[Veallie]

I guess I can live with it just being a machinegun with fall-of, but this ammo efficiency is horrendous.

 

I made the mistake of taking it into the raid, without noticing the changes. I had Blaze, PB, Shotgun Spazz, Ammo mutator 5, Viral & Heat. I had no trouble whatsoever killing stuff but I couldn't come close to keeping up with the ammo demands of the weapon.

 

Just feels like they nerfed the fun and practicality of the weapon without actually reducing its sheer power.

 

side-note: 25% status chance base per pellet? could be unreal for a status build.

[Grom-84]

Hitscan is one-frame calculation while projectile can take up to infinite time if there's no predefined time to live.

Also, there's a need for a lot of "complex" trigonometry, or else projectiles would spazz all over the place, there's velocity, gravity, chance to both ricochet and punch through, it's all calculated every frame until the projectile dies by running out of time or hitting the target.

And for the particle effects, ask yourself, how many particles at once can these tablets draw before blowing up?

I hope developers are not idiots to use particles with infinite lifetime) and those bounces and pellets traveling with sparkles all appeared in old games like UT1999. As for the tablets and phones they are capable to handle something like Doom 3 today which isn't light and none of them melting or blowing up running those games.  

 

I wonder why developers instead fixing existing bugs crippling fine weapons. Why the still haven't fixed parallax aiming while you cannot hit an enemy which stands right in front of you, or another one - sometimes you can jump over a crate or a container and will lose your buffs because game considers that you have fallen into a death pit but that wasn't the case! Those are annoying as hell

[(PSN)TMAZT3R]

DE, can you at least give back 60 base damage, no fall off, and better ammo consumption? Then it would be perfect.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

60 base damage, 12 base pellets and 3.7 firerate is a bit over the top (and like 3000DPS base...)

 

Removing the falloff and improving it's spread would be good enough.

[shaun10656]

I stick with that boar prime

[[DE]Grzegorz]

I stick with that boar prime

Kohm is still better though.

[srlhama]

I had to craft it again to test myself it and IMO the only downside now than before is that now I can't see the spread and correct my aim, I like it hitscan, just the spread is too high.

In 40 on Apollodorus I kiled 888 guys using the Khom with only tho cold mod on it( cause DE love put D on wrong weapons) and a 17lvl Halikar, and VMarelok when S#&$ go really fast, most of kills was from Khom that still have her amazing punchtrough.

Now I need a real test to saw what DE really did with this bad girl...

[Hatzeputt]

Kohm is still better though.

My 100% status boar begs to differ there is nothing left to prefer the Kohm we must use Boltor, Dread of Soma because 1 guy at DE believes it so, its the same with the nullifier and the damage cap. At least when you do such immense changes offer the people their forma back and the wasted booster. 

[[DE]Grzegorz]

I had to craft it again to test myself it and IMO the only downside now than before is that now I can't see the spread and correct my aim, I like it hitscan, just the spread is too high.

In 40 on Apollodorus I kiled 888 guys using the Khom with only tho cold mod on it( cause DE love put D on wrong weapons) and a 17lvl Halikar, and VMarelok when S#&$ go really fast, most of kills was from Khom that still have her amazing punchtrough.

Now I need a real test to saw what DE really did with this bad girl...

Simulacrum.

Lv90 Bombard.

Gets downed within half a mag at point blank range (with Corrosive+Fire build).

 

Good enough for me.

[srlhama]

Simulacrum.

Lv90 Bombard.

Gets downed within half a mag at point blank range (with Corrosive+Fire build).

Good enough for me.

Humm... a bombard 90 will kill always if have time to shot, and now that is the problem of Khom it is not killing fast enough, I tried against Infested and well since after 20 minutes every infested has armor (cause that godamn moas) her ammo start to go down faster than you can replace, cause you need to shot a lot to kill...

I think a damage boost to something like 45/50 (half the old damage) maybe could help a lot, and for god's sake that damage fall of is @(*()$ stupid, and the time to reach max fire rate is to long the same problem who kill Gorgon...