Punch Through Mechanic

[SteeleTheShow]

First. Has anybody else seen the new mobile UI? I'm on it right now and I'm glad they finally made one! I was on my phone earlier today and it wasn't there but it is now.

To the point: I think the punch through mechanic is too strong: Punch through and unlimited number of enemies is too much. Especially for weapons like soma prime.

I think each enemy type should have its own chance for punch through based on their armor rating with no chance to punch through on enemies with shields. Then each weapon should have its own chance for punch through giving high caliber, low fire rate weapons an advantage (looking at you lex prime and vectis). Then installing the mod increases the chance for punch through. High fire rate weapons would have a lower chance for this. This would help balance high power low fire rate with high DPS weapons.

Say you have the vectis with 90% chance to punch through. There are 12 grineer in a line. They're low level so they have essentially no armor. The first has 90% chance to punch through, second has 81% third has 73% chance etc. Essentially just multiplying [Weapon PT chance^(# of enemies passed through)] x Enemy PT chance. This way you can't punch through an unlimited number of enemies and it adds a new dynamic to the game.

You could make it even more complicated by having it deal decreased damage each time and making mods that can penetrate shields in much the same manner.

[AdunSaveMe]

Nerf punch through because it's too strong on stuff like Soma?

Rightio. Meanwhile, guns that are actually balanced with it get gimped completely and the stat becomes crap.

 

We don't need more RNG procs. Punch through is fine. Think it's too strong? Then don't use it.

Otherwise, come up with nerfs for everything else in the game that clears groups of enemies.

[SteeleTheShow]

You must need a tl:dr. Idk what your damage is. I said it would be balanced on those weapons because the weapons it is balanced on now will have an innately high punch through chance. Basically it would leave the balanced ones where they are and make things like the soma much more reasonable.

It's about balance. Not necessarily nerfing but if nerfing is what balances it then so be it. I feel like this is how it should have been from the start anyway

Edited February 6, 2015 by SteeleTheShow

[Gahrzerkire]

No dude. I am sorry punch through is great. It is a very very good mod. and it is extremely balanced. Sure it lets you clear a room of enemies but thats the point. It lets you hit multiple enemies. Its also hard to get. 

[SteeleTheShow]

Punch through is broken. Why add a flat modifier? Nothing else is a flat modifier. You don't add 30% run speed. You multiply run speed by 1.3. You don't add 60% range, you multiply by 1.6. It is inconsistent. Also did I mention that ALL weapons will have a chance to punch through now but the mod will improve the chances

Edited February 6, 2015 by SteeleTheShow

[AriaOfOurs]

Its also hard to get. 

Agreed. Over 1100 hours, I've transmuted one Hell's Chamber and picked up maybe two or three. I only have four copies of Metal Auger, and six Seekers(though I've noticed those are far more common).

[SteeleTheShow]

I don't understand how it being rare is relevant. Because its rare it must be OP? No. I think it should supplement certain builds and make the game more dynamic rather than being a flat modifier.

Also I have plenty of all of them. You only need 1. If demand goes up, you just make platinum off the extra in trade.

Edited February 6, 2015 by SteeleTheShow

[taiiat]

Punch-Through is balanced around it not being a Damage Mod, and the Point cost.

2.1m Punch-Through Mods are similar cost to required Mods, sometimes even costing more.

Shred is an exception, however it is the same pt cost of an Elemental. so have more Damage or Punch-Through.

in that regard, Punch-Through is balanced. it's very effective, but it is an actual trade off.

(enough so that i even see a fair number of people that don't like Punch-Through. there's some people that like it, and some people that are very against it).

Why add a flat modifier?

because very few Weapons have any Punch-Through to start with.

[Deviantis]

OK let's make it a modifier and give everything punch through, I like this idea.

[SteeleTheShow]

It's not balance is point cost. Think of it this way; you have shred where you can hit 10 enemies in a line for the price of 1. Or you can overkill 1 enemy really hard. In swarm modes this more than pays for itself. But if it were a straight chance, this would make it more of a decision I think.

OK let's make it a modifier and give everything punch through, I like this idea.

I think so too. Nobody said it would be huge though. Think better than crit chance. Edited February 6, 2015 by SteeleTheShow

[Gahrzerkire]

It's not balance is point cost. Think of it this way; you have shred where you can hit 10 enemies in a line for the price of 1. Or you can overkill 1 enemy really hard. In swarm modes this more than pays for itself. But if it were a straight chance, this would make it more of a decision I think.

I think so too. Nobody said it would be huge though. Think better than crit chance.

I get the feeling you dont have shred or metal auger... and that you love your boltor prime.

[CHunterX]

It's not balance is point cost. Think of it this way; you have shred where you can hit 10 enemies in a line for the price of 1. Or you can overkill 1 enemy really hard. In swarm modes this more than pays for itself. But if it were a straight chance, this would make it more of a decision I think.

 

 

You're wrong. You might hit three enemies for the price of one shot, but that one shot is an entire damage-based mod weaker than it could be. Punch-through, in reality, isn't going to help you kill the problem enemies like Bombarders and Heavy Gunners. It's crowd-control in weapon form.

I'll admit its strong, but it's a fair tradeoff. There are at least two weapons it's actually broken OP on, neither of which is the Soma (Prime), but I won't name names.

Edited February 6, 2015 by CHunterX

[taiiat]

OK let's make it a modifier and give everything punch through, I like this idea.

that is statcrepe.jpg

no thanks.

i see that this thread's main purpose now is to ask for unfounded automatic stat upgrades.

let's not. as it stands, the Punch-Through Mods are something you actually have to Equip.

making them passive is just a general stat buff. we don't need it.

[FatalOath]

It's not balance is point cost. Think of it this way; you have shred where you can hit 10 enemies in a line for the price of 1. Or you can overkill 1 enemy really hard. In swarm modes this more than pays for itself. But if it were a straight chance, this would make it more of a decision I think.

I think so too. Nobody said it would be huge though. Think better than crit chance.

Shred alone will not let you shoot through 10 enemies at once. It's 1.2 meters of punch through... you have an idea of how far that is right?