Volt_Cruelerz Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) Except you'd be wrong because of https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/58427-fire-rate-on-semi-autos-is-meaningless/'>this which I can pretty well guarantee is far more exhaustive than what you've tried. Not only that, but the change to bursts/second was stated in patch notes IIRC. To clarify, if the rate of the Burston was 3.3 bullets/second, then it wouldn't be possible for me to get 1.48 bursts/second which comes out to be 4.4 bullets per second now would it? Or when I dropped all settings to min to get what would be 6 bullets per second. Maximum DPS of Burston were it not for that stupid issue would be 21*3*3.3*(1+0.05*1.5) = 223.4925. In practice, it is unfortunately somewhere between 100 and 150 DPS in most cases but can vary more widely based on the computer. As soon as that problem gets fixed, there'll be a surge of use of semis because people will be using them twice or maybe even thrice as well as before. Edited June 6, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frendh Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) Random damage is my bread and butter. Seeing as I have played pen and paper RPGs and a lot of computer RPGs. That aside, this idea below is cooler. Xrylene, on 08 May 2013 - 03:18 AM, said: In the past, I've even suggested two alternatives, one clearly better for semi automatics, and the other for automatic weapons. The new critical damage mod would add bonus damage to headshots versus Corpus and Grineer, and limbshots versus Infested, while the automatic weapon mod would feature steadily increasing damage if focusing on the same target, with a cap to prevent making bosses a cakewalk. Both of those options are far more "exciting" than crit, because YOU have the power to make them work, not the game. If you want to use the headshot critical damage, then you know you're going to have to aim well to make it worth it, if you want to use the increasing damage on target, you'll know you're going to have to balance burst fire and bullet streaming to bring enemies down fast. Edited June 6, 2013 by Frendh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Except you'd be wrong because of this. Not only that, but the change to bursts/second was stated in patch notes IIRC. To clarify, if the rate of the Burston was 3.3 bullets/second, then it wouldn't be possible for me to get 1.48 bursts/second which comes out to be 4.4 bullets per second now would it? Or when I dropped all settings to min to get what would be 6.6 bullets per second. Maximum DPS of Burston were it not for that stupid issue would be 21*3*3.3*(1+0.05*1.5) = 223.4925. In practice, it is unfortunately somewhere between 100 and 150 DPS in most cases but can vary more widely based on the computer. As soon as that problem gets fixed, there'll be a surge of use of semis because people will be using them twice or maybe even thrice as well as before. So essentially, I should be able to fire the Burston about twice as fast as I can now? I wouldn't have expected that the framerate is already that much of a factor at ~80 fps, but maybe the semi-automatic mechanic is broken in other ways as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) So essentially, I should be able to fire the Burston about twice as fast as I can now? I wouldn't have expected that the framerate is already that much of a factor at ~80 fps, but maybe the semi-automatic mechanic is broken in other ways as well. Basically.. :/ It really is that bad... I assume it has more to do with the engine's internal tick rate than the actual graphical display, but yeah. Something's clearly off and it's not just the Burston. When I tried firing the Kunai semi-auto style with the macros, their DPS dropped something like 40-50% though I wasn't timing it so I'm only estimating here. There's something really really bad hidden in there. Edited June 6, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasmir Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) What do you mean "give them time"? Burston has been weaksauce in all the time that I've played Warframe, which is over three months now. Burston was fine until the braton buff...and now the forma thing jeez theres no reason to use a burston. Edited June 6, 2013 by Dasmir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frendh Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I thought the old braton was good the way it was. I do not see any good reason for the recent buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Well, for now I just hope that they address the problems with semi-automatic mechanic and give the Grakata the buff it needs... the Grakata really isn't worth much compared to a Braton right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Well, for now I just hope that they address the problems with semi-automatic mechanic and give the Grakata the buff it needs... the Grakata really isn't worth much compared to a Braton right now. Under normal circumstances, absolutely. Assuming it wasn't a bug though, apparently according to the mod calculator I used, if you use a full complement of mods and completely polarize the weapons, it'll end up on top... Weird... Maybe crit-based weapons just scale with more and more polarizations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Under normal circumstances, absolutely. Assuming it wasn't a bug though, apparently according to the mod calculator I used, if you use a full complement of mods and completely polarize the weapons, it'll end up on top... Weird... Maybe crit-based weapons just scale with more and more polarizations? What loadout did you use for the calculation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meltina Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Under normal circumstances, absolutely. Assuming it wasn't a bug though, apparently according to the mod calculator I used, if you use a full complement of mods and completely polarize the weapons, it'll end up on top... Weird... Maybe crit-based weapons just scale with more and more polarizations? Yeah grakata gets insane end game scaling my old post about crit mods being horrible is pretty moot now that you have enough polarity to put every mod on it. When you had to give up damage for a crit mod it was horrible due to how much damage you had to give up now there is no down side to crit mod stacking other than how many forma you spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) Lol just found my mistake: forgot to max Serration on the Braton lol. Braton will deal more long-term DPS (including reload times) with complete polarization whereas the Grakata will deal more short-term DPS (more DPS within a given magazine) Braton (five polarizations required): ms, rate, freeze, reload, damage, AP, fire, and electrical Grakata (three polarizations required): damage, rate, AP, freeze, ms, crit chance, crit damage, fire Even so though, balancing weapons such that they're only close after several forma is a bit... Absurd. Edited June 6, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'm quite surprised that the Grakata seems to have 15% instead of 7.5% base crit chance now according to the wiki, which is essentially what I was suggesting in the thread. When did that happen? It wasn't anywhere in the update notes. DE please don't fix the weapon balance without even telling us that you did! That's confusing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 The program I'm using is from some time at least a few days ago and it lists the Grakata's chance as 15%, so :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 The program I'm using is from some time at least a few days ago and it lists the Grakata's chance as 15%, so :P Well, they probably snuck it in with U8 or something, but they didn't even say a word about any sort of weapon balancing in the notes, which is why I thought that nothing changed at all. *sigh* Well, at least the Grakata is in a space where it can deal good damage... if you use 5 formas on it, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 3 forma. The Braton required 5 to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 3 forma. The Braton required 5 to get there. Grakata: damage (14), rate (9), AP (9), freeze(9), ms(15), crit chance(9), crit damage(9), fire(11), which is 85 in total Polarities on damage (-7), ms (-7), fire(-5), AP(-4) and freeze (-4), which is -27 in total. Removing any of the polarities would keep you from maxing the mods that directly affect your DPS. Braton: ms(15), rate(9), freeze(9), reload(7), damage(14), AP(9), fire(11), and electrical(11), which is also 85 in total Polarities on damage (-7), ms (-7), fire(-5), electric(-5) and AP(-4), which is -28 in total. For the Braton you can consider bringing reload speed only to level 4, which will barely make a difference in most situations. Essentially both end up with 5 in the said loadout, but I'd be more willing to sacrifice 5% reload speed than any direct damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xveganrox Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'd like to see an increase in Burston damage but I hope they don't remove the recoil - that's what makes it fun to use! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Grakata: damage (14), rate (9), AP (9), freeze(9), ms(15), crit chance(9), crit damage(9), fire(11), which is 85 in total Polarities on damage (-7), ms (-7), fire(-5), AP(-4) and freeze (-4), which is -27 in total. Removing any of the polarities would keep you from maxing the mods that directly affect your DPS. Braton: ms(15), rate(9), freeze(9), reload(7), damage(14), AP(9), fire(11), and electrical(11), which is also 85 in total Polarities on damage (-7), ms (-7), fire(-5), electric(-5) and AP(-4), which is -28 in total. For the Braton you can consider bringing reload speed only to level 4, which will barely make a difference in most situations. Essentially both end up with 5 in the said loadout, but I'd be more willing to sacrifice 5% reload speed than any direct damage. just redid the configurations on the calculator and you're right, 5 needed for each. I guess the thing's just buggy :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire_Ashes Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I had an idea for a new burst fire weapon that would have these buffs but would be put in a certain ranking like 3 or 4 if you want to check it out go ahead but either use this idea or give the burston a major buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipstick Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) i have 7000 kills with my grakata and several stars on it. It is a competent killing machine, the only change I would like to see is a buff to the crit damage. edit: Use a gun you like, they can all be amazing with forma now Edited June 7, 2013 by Dipstick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo3602 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Grakata with 20% critical chance base.. now that is ANOTHER grakata ! that would be awesome but it might be a op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X3Evanescence Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Braton, nah. I GO WITH DERA who LOVES to PEWPEW xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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