Handspring Shouldn't Be A Mod

[buttwich]

Welp, I'll put in my vote for what it's worth here near the edge of this topic's event horizon. I'm against the inclusion of this mod at least as it stands currently. Not so much because I had a problem with knockdown. Even when it caused me to die I never felt like I was being cheated. But because it is a waste of an interesting gameplay mechanic.

Knockdown, as CC, seems to act as a way to change up the flow of combat, right? It's about trying to create a cadence to your fighting so that it's not just constant hack, slash, boom. Sure, it's certainly a common enough mechanic. So then why not add its corresponding response? A timed button-push into backflip would cause you to probably lose just as much time from shooting between impact, reaction, and redraw/reorientation. It would however feel better to the player. They would now be actively engaging with your gameplay mechanic and feeling like they were playing the game properly while still having to deal with the flow you're looking to implement.

As knockdown stands in what I've gleaned from the hive-mind is as a 4th wall breaker more than anything else. Being killed from a cheap mechanic is one thing. Seeing something that takes you out of the flow of the game entirely is another. Knockdown pushes that boundary and it seems the majority of the comments make reference to feeling like they're pushed out of gameplay, rather than immersed in it by, even a detrimental, mechanic. The mod doesn't address that issue. It doesn't address the core flaw that knockdown interacts poorly with its given response in this type of fast-paced game. Just speeding up the jump-up animation doesn't fix that. At best all it could do is push knockdown into obsolesence by negating its effects. Which then begs the question of why even have knockdown if it isn't serving its intended purpose?

Does that mean I think you should turn the mod into an ability? Personally, no. I think that would find it to be underused. Now, making it an actual ability polarity skill makes that a perfectly viable choice as there are many players who rarely use all four of their warframe's abilities on any given run and having a replacement sounds productive. I just think that still doesn't address the issue of having a mechanic that doesn't have a logical response. Having a mod that enhanced that response, by making it easier to execute, more forgiving on whatever resource it uses, increasing its distance covered or adding a new effect to it like damage or energy recovery would make sense for a mod. But then all of that would imply that you have given the players a way to react to your gameplay mechanic which, if you haven't picked up in, is my point. The overall conclusion on the mod though is that there are many options in dealing with it--but it has to be addressed because it neither addresses the concern of your player base nor does anything other than diminish your own desired control over gameplay experience.

When it comes to crowd control, DE has "difficulty" confused with punishment. I know we have all been stunlocked to death at least once by the exploding zombies.

 

ALSO: very good, well thought out post. A+++ would read again

Edited May 27, 2013 by noubledigger

[Ninja]

Press *put any button here* when knockdown to instantly use the effects of handspring for the cost of *put number here* energy.

[CosyPigeon]

This is a wonderful thread that has virtually unanimous community support, even after 10 pages. This feedback will be emphasized with the Devs.

 

Cheers Rebecca. <3

[simeo77]

This is a wonderful thread that has virtually unanimous community support, even after 10 pages. This feedback will be emphasized with the Devs.

 

Please do. Thank you Rebecca.

[elindred]

This is a wonderful thread that has virtually unanimous community support, even after 10 pages. This feedback will be emphasized with the Devs.

Us humble beta testers sometimes take a break from complaining and come up with a decent idea :P

[BoompigXD]

Here's my two cents on the matter.

 

Handspring shouldn't be a mod. I would rather have to mash buttons than waste mod points. Heck thats what it should be just mash buttons to get up or instead HOW ABOUT NATURALLY WE JUST JUMP UP LIKE CHRIS REDFIELD OR SHEVA IN RE5

[iPrevenge]

+1 Brilliant idea.

[Tyre]

Agreed

[corpseshock]

You have my full support on this. Im still wondering about that a agile ninja is flipped on the back so easily. Just like a turtle.

 

...

 

 

Ah, nevermind

Edited May 28, 2013 by corpseshock

[KageNoShini]

^

dem ninja turtles, and yes, getting up after getting knocked down should be skill based, not just drop a mod for faster animation.

[Tekkaman-Blade]

+1

[DeathByTeaCup]

I don't mind it being a mod since it's a step towards having different playstyles, but there's two big problems with it.

 

1. It stands out because currently it's the only non-stat Frame mod.

2. It's high cost and basic utility makes it pretty useless.

 

In the future if they add more mods like this (stuff like able to rebound off walls, double jump (curl and flip in midair for a little more height), % chance of auto-blocking whatever) then it might work. I'm guessing they're trying to make mods less "simple stat increases" and rather actual modifiers to playstyle, which is something I prefer. Really tired of more damage, more health, more energy, more reload and whatever.

amazing idea.. i love the 2x jump hahahah .. *might have been said b4* if maybe for the 2x jump the wall stuff etc if it had its own section of points so u can pick and choose and not feel like S#&amp;&#036; when u have to use warframe points to do cool tricks

[Reaver_X]

plain and simple, roll recovery need to be an action that happens by pressing a button when u hit the ground. Its as simple as that

[BioCharge]

Heh. I know what we should get: SWTOR's resolve mechanic! That was a great mechanic, right?.... Right?!

[Jintachi_Sanumai]

Yes

[Excitonex]

Why is this thread getting necro'd? Handspring should be a mod. It should have it's cost adjusted though.

[BoompigXD]

Why is this thread getting necro'd? Handspring should be a mod. It should have it's cost adjusted though.

Considering that in every other game EVER characters (Even heavy characters like Chris Redfield) jump up pretty quickly to their feet YES it should not be a mod 

[Reaver_X]

Why is this thread getting necro'd? Handspring should be a mod. It should have it's cost adjusted though.

 

Downvoted

[Excitonex]

Downvoted

Yeah, multishot shouldn't be a mod either. All my guns should be shooting twice as many bullets, because I'm a ninja.

[CosyPigeon]

Why is this thread getting necro'd? Handspring should be a mod. It should have it's cost adjusted though.

 

Also Down voted. Hand spring should not be a mod, Community support for it no longer being a mod has been overwhelming. 

[Reaver_X]

Yeah, multishot shouldn't be a mod either. All my guns should be shooting twice as many bullets, because I'm a ninja.

 

that is nothing like what we are asking for, take your fallacies elsewhere >:I

[Excitonex]

that is nothing like what we are asking for, take your fallacies elsewhere >:I

Yeah, you're asking them to remove a mechanic because of arbitrary reasons. Knockdown is there to increase the difficulty of the game. Handspring is there to help soften that difficulty.

 

Personally, I would like handspring and the resistance mods and any future mods that are similar to occupy their own slots separate from mods like redirection and focus. Right now there is very little these mods add compared to the more powerful ones like focus, streamline, etc. There is nothing wrong with handspring as a mod. The problem is that there's so many better mods that could take the same slot.

[xenapan]

Yeah, you're asking them to remove a mechanic because of arbitrary reasons. Knockdown is there to increase the difficulty of the game. Handspring is there to help soften that difficulty.

 

Personally, I would like handspring and the resistance mods and any future mods that are similar to occupy their own slots separate from mods like redirection and focus. Right now there is very little these mods add compared to the more powerful ones like focus, streamline, etc. There is nothing wrong with handspring as a mod. The problem is that there's so many better mods that could take the same slot.

The issue isnt so much that it takes up space. the issue is that it should have been integrated as PART of the game available to all who are skilled enough to use it. it should be a skill based reaction rather than as a mod because that's how it fits into the gameplay. much like wallrunning. imagine for a moment horizontal wallrun was a mod, as was vertical wall run, as is wall jump, wall flip, dodge flip, sliding , sliding melee. That would just be pretty stupid. It's part of being a badass ninja. Instead, we get the standard getting up animation which is a tenno waking up in the morning without coffee vs handspring version which is a ninja being knocked down in combat then flipping himself upright from a prone position.

[CosyPigeon]

Yeah, you're asking them to remove a mechanic because of arbitrary reasons. Knockdown is there to increase the difficulty of the game. Handspring is there to help soften that difficulty.

 

Personally, I would like handspring and the resistance mods and any future mods that are similar to occupy their own slots separate from mods like redirection and focus. Right now there is very little these mods add compared to the more powerful ones like focus, streamline, etc. There is nothing wrong with handspring as a mod. The problem is that there's so many better mods that could take the same slot.

 

SOMEONE didn't read the original post.  -_-

[MJ12]

Yeah, you're asking them to remove a mechanic because of arbitrary reasons. Knockdown is there to increase the difficulty of the game. Handspring is there to help soften that difficulty.

 

Personally, I would like handspring and the resistance mods and any future mods that are similar to occupy their own slots separate from mods like redirection and focus. Right now there is very little these mods add compared to the more powerful ones like focus, streamline, etc. There is nothing wrong with handspring as a mod. The problem is that there's so many better mods that could take the same slot.

 

That 'arbitrary reason' is because knockdown in this game is broken, as it takes a long time to recover, the recovery animation has lower priority than knockdown, and finally because you can't do anything while recovering (which takes a while, as mentioned). Given the increasing number of knockdowns (including the Scorpion, which has a knockdown that is not telegraphed) and the Shockwave Moas having their telegraphing changed significantly, making fast recovery from knockdown mod-based instead of skill-based is awful.

 

Especially since by the time you can farm yourself a Handspring you've probably got enough hours in the game that knockdowns don't make it harder, just frustrating.