Worth Upgrading Karak?

[NuggetsTheCat]

I've been using my karak as my primary since ditching my MK1 Paris. It's ok but now that I'm getting a bit further in the game, it's lacking a bit in power and the clip size is starting to be an issue. I got my first forma as a log in gift today and was wondering whether it was worth using on the Karak or whether i should just ditch it and work on something else. Pretty tempted to use the forma with my Tipedo I just crafted but melee is generally is more of a fall back thing for me. Any suggestions?

 

Edit:When i say forma, i might be meaning orokin catalyst/reactor, i can never remember what does what.

 

Edit: Double checked, I meant catalyst but i guess i could use the forma on it too.

Edited March 2, 2015 by NuggetsTheCat

[Llyssa]

The karak is definitely a solid weapon you can use well into the game. Forma come much easier later on, so it's worth using them to upgrade things you like. The karak should be a great candidate for this, particularly if you like it.

[(PSN)Bowjangelz]

While the boltor or soma might give you more bang for your forma, Llyssa is right: forma what you like. (Not to mention that depending on your mastery level you may have to wait for the boltor and soma). You're likely to start running voids regularly later in the game, and at that point you won't have any trouble getting more forma. Enjoy what you have that you like along the way. 

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

The Karak is decent, but is only for low level stuff. If you don't like meta, but like good guns, try the vectis, grinlock, burston prime, Latron prime, amprex. The Karak needs 6 forma just to be sub par, so, your call.

[Deadmice]

I've used the karak in a T4 interception with 3 or 4 forma in it. I can't say it was the best choice or that it was destroying everything but I was getting by for the first 8 rounds. So it has potential to be used for a long time, that and its pretty balanced damage spread is helpful

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

What's your mastery rank?  I'm only asking because this question is relevant to the weapons accessible to you.  

 

I'm Mastery Rank 12 and actually never used the Karak, though it's one of the first blueprints I ever bought.

 

I will say that the Vulkar is a good intermediate weapon between the Paris and later guns.  I was a fan of the Tetra when I had access to it.  I'm a fan of sniping, and if you use a squishier frame like Mag or Volt, you may benefit from crushing your enemies at a distance.

 

Personally, I wouldn't spend a catalyst or forma on the Karak, but I've also never used it :)

[Centias]

I'm on the fence on this one. I would probably recommend holding on to that Catalyst and/or Forma for later. Way back I used a Catalyst on my Karak because I liked the sound and feel, but its damage just doesn't live up to its aesthetics and it won't keep up with other weapons later on. Now, it is probably one of your best accessible options since it sounds like you haven't been playing long, but I think it might be worthwhile to consider making a Latron, leveling it for Mastery, then using it to make a Tiberon. The Tiberon is a very solid primary, even like top 10 rifles, but it is a burst weapon. If burst weapons aren't your thing, you should probably hold out and make a Soma. It takes Mastery rank 6, but if you build it for crit, it will easily be your best friend for quite some time. And Mastery rank 6 doesn't take very long to get to.

 

Still, if you really like this weapon and intend to stick with it, it might be worth using them now to get the most out of it until you have something better and can get another Catalyst/Forma for it.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Centias

[(PSN)rooftop_voting]

Perfectly viable across the entire solar system if you're willing to put work into it.  It's not ultimate-tactical-nuke-DPS-tier, but I wouldn't worry about that stuff at your stage in the game (I'm assuming you're lower mastery).  Just pick something you like, and have fun progressing through the solar system and unlocking nodes with it.

 

I personally think the Latron, Boltor, and Grakata have a bit more viability in later game, if I were to pick something among the stuff that's easily accessible to newer players.

[NuggetsTheCat]

Ok so it doesn't sound like the greatest use my stuff. How easy are prime things to get? I only recently found out you could get prime stuff without just buying them with plat but don't know whether they're a realistic option at this point or if i should look for something else to use in the mean time. I'm currently only rank 4 so have access to most stuff but a couple of things including the Soma are still locked. Not really a huge fan of burst weapons for primary really but i can look past that if there's a decent advantage to be had.

[mrecentric]

I enjoy the Karak but it's clip size is tiny. As far as I'm concerned it is the most accurate full-auto weapon in the game (note that I'm taking spread and kick into account). It's not very damaging but it IS accurate, and that's why I love it.

Edited March 2, 2015 by mrecentric

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Ok so it doesn't sound like the greatest use my stuff. How easy are prime things to get? I only recently found out you could get prime stuff without just buying them with plat but don't know whether they're a realistic option at this point or if i should look for something else to use in the mean time. I'm currently only rank 4 so have access to most stuff but a couple of things including the Soma are still locked. Not really a huge fan of burst weapons for primary really but i can look past that if there's a decent advantage to be had.

At MR4, you should have access to the the Tetra.  Its rate of fire isn't the best, but that can be improved with firing speed mods, and it's primarily puncture damage, so it will chew up the Grineer.  I also like that it's a "pew pew lazer gun."  The Latron is also a good happy medium between rifle and sniper, and you can get the much-much-better Latron prime for around 20p if you want to trade for it.

 

Farming the Void for prime parts isn't a bad plan if you have a clan that'll help you.  The only problem with Prime weapons is that they take 10 Orokin Cells minimum to build, and in some cases up to 15.

 

At this stage, I recommend building whatever weapons you have access to, and ranking them to 30 to get access to the really good guns and swords.  Save your Forma and Catalysts for that content :)

[Zedera]

I love my karak. I have it potato'd and forma'd. I sold my soma and boltor in favor of keeping it as my automatic weapon of choice. Why? It handles so beautifully well. You can go for big damage guns, or you can go for guns you like the feel of. Karak doesn't do as much damage as soma p or boltor p, but it handles so well for me that I keep it and use it. In T4 I might be doing very little damage, but for everything through Pluto you should be absolutely golden with a potato.

 

I say just use it if you like the way the weapon handles and don't bother changing until Soma comes available and you can judge that one for yourself as well. Soma is almost as good as some of the prime automatics anyways.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Zedera

[kilerskull]

I used the karak for alot of hours but it sucked in the end. I only used it for lazer accuracy (cant stand the boltors bullet speed). In defend and all other missions, I was good till mid lvl enemies before I started dealing no damage and became useless to the team. It is a low lvl weapon. Soma is a direct upgrade to the karak. While the karak is the best weapon to have before you can unlock the soma, I would say stick with it but dont waste forma on it. If you have alot of resources, creds and forma, then go ahead.

[(XBOX)Kaptain IV]

It's only good for lower levels, If the Karak had a reload/mag buff, it'd work great into late game. The combination of fire rate, mag size, and reload time is a terrible drag for it. It's easily outclassed by other weapons. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by (XB1)Kaptain IV

[MidnightDreary]

Ok so it doesn't sound like the greatest use my stuff....

 

You're going to need to get it and level it up for mastery rank anyways.  What folks are telling you is that it is a good solid weapon over all, but in late game content you are going to want something else to keep up.

 

A good rule of thumb for early progression is Mk-1 weapon > Braton > Karak > Soma > Boltor P / Braton P / Burston P / Soma P, etc. 

 

That does not account for taste or niche builds.  Just good solid weapons that you can rely on for a long while.  Would I slap a catalyst in the Karak? Yup.  Would I forma it? No, not unless you just love it.  Once you get your hands on the Soma you will likely stick with that for a very long time.

 

I'm MR 17 and I still have my original Braton I like to dust off every once and a while - catalyst in it and 5 Forma.  It will push 8900 DPS or so, which is sufficient for nearly all content short of T4 keys or high level t3 survival/defense.  For comparison my Braton P will push 15900 DPS with a catalyst and 6 forma.

[(XBOX)Kaptain IV]

A good rule of thumb for early progression is Mk-1 weapon > Braton > Karak > Soma > Boltor P / Braton P / Burston P / Soma P, etc. 

Can't see Soma being before those because of the Mastery rank it requires. 

[MidnightDreary]

Folks who are leveling early weapons for MR will easily be Rank 6 for the Soma.

[RoboDoge]

Look, there is simple advice i can give you on any weapon.

 

 

 

I wont go into damage and other stats details and try to explain why Karak migh be good or bad. You just need to know that if you like the weapon and weapon mechanics, then Forma the hell out of it. Dont bother with stats as you will end with at least 20+ different weapons over the course of the game.

 

 

Fun should be priority in the game, not statistics.

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

 

A good rule of thumb for early progression is Mk-1 weapon > Braton > Karak > Soma > Boltor P / Braton P / Burston P / Soma P, etc. 

Can't see Soma being before those because of the Mastery rank it requires. 

 

Yeah, that progression is correct (IMO).  What puts the Soma ahead of the Primes is that you can build it from a simple BP rather than farm diverse void missions for all the parts.  A lot of them in T3 or T4.  Of course if you are buying/trading prime parts that goes out the window.

 

The awkward part if it though is you've got a long gap between the MR2 Karak and the MR6 Soma.  The list of weapons in the MR 3-5 range are all pretty meh.  Me, I bridged that gap with the Sobek.  Its not great but it can beat the hell out of the Corpus.  The biggest down side is probably that shotguns have separate mods from rifles so you split your fusion resources pretty bad.  A plus now is the syndicate mod for it.

 

You could, of course, swap the Hek for the Sobek but I didn't like the Hek even though its probably better.  The 4 round mag just kills it for me.

[Llyssa]

Ok so it doesn't sound like the greatest use my stuff. How easy are prime things to get? I only recently found out you could get prime stuff without just buying them with plat but don't know whether they're a realistic option at this point or if i should look for something else to use in the mean time. I'm currently only rank 4 so have access to most stuff but a couple of things including the Soma are still locked. Not really a huge fan of burst weapons for primary really but i can look past that if there's a decent advantage to be had.

Prime things require void runs to do. Those will usually acquire you forma, btw.

 

Also, I would suggest you completely ignore the people telling you the karak is bad. Until/unless you get some serious critical chance boosters, it's superior to the soma, which has a moderate rank requirement. They are the only two guns to be comparing--everything else mentioned does not work in a similar fashion to them.

 

When they say "will not do top damage", they mean "it's very hard to hit for 3 million points in 1 bullet". Nothing you can expect to face in the game requires 3 million damage to kill.

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

Prime things require void runs to do. Those will usually acquire you forma, btw.

 

Also, I would suggest you completely ignore the people telling you the karak is bad. Until/unless you get some serious critical chance boosters, it's superior to the soma, which has a moderate rank requirement. They are the only two guns to be comparing--everything else mentioned does not work in a similar fashion to them.

 

When they say "will not do top damage", they mean "it's very hard to hit for 3 million points in 1 bullet". Nothing you can expect to face in the game requires 3 million damage to kill.

 

This all the way!

 

People have their preferences and it's reflective of what works best for them but only you can account for what works for you. Damage is just one facet of the gem and until you really get a feel for what your playstyle is and what characters you feel comfortable with you can't rely on DPS alone as a measure of what will lead you to success. You have to figure out what other features make it a unique weapon and if those features are an asset to what you are already bringing to the table. Just because it might not doesn't mean the weapon is necessarily 'bad' but just nonviable for the time being. The Karak is a very formidable weapon for solo play across the Solar System, highly accurate with a respectable stat chance once modded appropriately. Sure the magazine size is lacking but the reload speed compensates and it should last you assuming you aren't the type that just fires randomly at a moving target and dispenses half your ammo reserve on the first squad of enemies you happen upon within the initial minute of a mission. 

 

Basically, find out what's fun and run with that if playing solo. It's all about trial and error.

 

If playing in a team then figure out where you best fit and formulate a strategy based on your strengths to get that victory/mod/reward. That's all anyone can ask of you. I've seen very bad Rhinos and exceptionally clever Limbos- I am convinced anything is possible given you know how to use what you've got. And that's what makes this game awesome.

[MidnightDreary]

... I've seen very bad Rhinos and exceptionally clever Limbos- I am convinced anything is possible given you know how to use what you've got. And that's what makes this game awesome.

 

You will see this particularly when a new frame is released.  You will be leveling and see some players that simply have no idea what they are doing get it to level 30, proclaim it a broken or trash frame and go back to what suits their play style.  Then there are those who keep playing and toying with the builds of that frame until they perfect the role the frame excels at.

 

I generally groan when I see Limbo join or a low MR Loki as I know the clownery which is about to occur, but on that same coin there are some stunningly good Limbo and Loki players out there who can turn the entire tide of battle by themselves.

[d1sc1p1e]

mostly good advice all round. i will add though that this game requires you to specialise really quickly. the basic rule of Warframe is that Frames synergise with mission types and Weapons synergise with enemy types. unlike alot of other RPG's you will have a hard time finding the 'one loadout for all'.

 

so with that in mind the Karak is a general weapon. with time and Forma invested you'll get good results, but not as good as say a Puncture focused weapon(Boltor/Boltor Prime) modded for Corrosive damage when facing Grineer, or a Corrosive/Gas modded weapon against Infested etc.

 

at MR4 i'd advise against Forma'ing anything right now and focus on building and leveling anything you can get your hands on, so you can get a handle on how Damage 2.0 works and also start figuring out how you like to play. personally i like assault rifles. any game i play i'm looking for the AK47(or equivalent) as my go to. when i came to Warframe i was dissapointed with them as the generalised nature of the assault rifle(Soma/Braton etc.) meant specialising was difficult. after a bit of time using different weapons i've found i enjoy the specialising, i can't take my Braton Prime into Corpus missions, but it's perfect in the Void, where my Quanta doesn't work even though it tears through Grineer etc.

[Llyssa]

snip

I would note, once you really get a lot of skill and a good mod selection going, it really stops mattering what you take where--virtually every frame and every weapon has a way it can be used to astounding effects in any mission type, it's just a matter of figuring out how to do it, and applying that style.

 

The main thing becomes, then, how you play it--going to a spy 2.0 mission on a loki is a rather straight-forward operation, for example, while taking a hydroid there requires an entirely different(yet entirely plausible) style of play, that in some cases is actually easier than the loki(but in some cases much harder).

 

So, that's why I say to go for it with the karak--modded for straight damage, it's the best rifle around of that style. If you like that style, there's no reason not to pimp it out a bit, particularly as that makes gaining MR easier--the best way to acquire lots of mastery rank is to have one SUPER RELIABLE gear piece you love and have tricked out totally, and just keep using that while rotating out all of your other gear pieces.

 

So in this case, kick up the karak a bit, and then go to town with it while acquiring various secondary and melee weapons, as well as various frames and pets. Eventually, you'll hit upon a secondary or melee or frame you LOVE, and then you trick that out, and use that as your new SUPER RELIABLE gear piece, while you try other primary weapons.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Listen to Llyssa and Robodoge...

 

If you have a potato in it and the time to Forma the weapon if you like it, then go for it.

 

If the Karak is the only weapon you have tried aside from the Starter weapon, I'd suggest branching a bit...

 

Remember though, that you need to get the weapon/frame leveled to 30 (to get full mastery rank credit) before selling it.

 

With that reminder, You have a number of options...

 

Boltor is a good weapon

Latron is a great weapon if you like semi-automatic.

If you haven't tried the Strun, it only costs credits and a weapon slot

Braton only costs credits...

 

Don't worry about whether they can take care of you in the Void or not because each of them can just fine.

That's a question of efficient modding as opposed to just the weapon itself.

 

In relation to the Latron... The Tiberon is a beast.

 

If it was me in your place, I'd build the Latron lvl it up to 30 (no potato) and use it to build the Tiberon.

 

You'll hear people trying to gas you up regarding Primes... 

Most Prime weapons are improvements over the original versions... But what makes them awesome is the fact that they typically come with a couple of polarity slots on the front end... This means less Forma will be spent optimizing the weapon.

 

That said there is Prime equivalent gear to be had without ever touching the Void.

 

Most of the Syndicate weapons are Prime equivalent in damage (Max out your Syndicate and spend standing for the weapon)

The Dragon Nikana is a prime equivalent melee, Likewise the Tipedo.

There are a ton of primaries that compare to what a Prime can offer damage wise... the better question would be what weapon action/type you prefer.

 

The only way you'll know is to try stuff out.

 

 

[OniGanon]

I'd recommend you do not use a Catalyst on your Karak.

 

The Karak is a fine weapon for where you're at, but it will very likely get completely replaced when you pick up something like a Braton Prime, Soma/Prime, Tiberon, Sybaris, etc.

 

Catalysts are rare. Don't use them on weapons you're likely to replace.