Argoms Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 There seems to be some misinformation going around about multishot- claiming that it shoots in a consistent pattern and is completely deterministic. This is not the case (as of 7.10), and hopefully we can all be clear on this from now on. I used a boltor because it's most obvious to see when the multishot procs- the projectile deviation at a distance isn't the same for the second shot created by multishot. It has a 90% multishot mod on it, which means if the idea that multishot isn't random is correct, the pattern for shots should be like this: 1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2 However, in this video, multishot procs roughly 20 times in a row, impossible given the previous assumption. Therefore, it's truly a random number and the chances don't "add up" to 100 to create another shot. So as you can see, multishot is random and not based on adding sub-100 percentages until they exceed 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoRDxDeMoN Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Use a 50% multishot and see if you get a double every two shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) Use a 50% multishot and see if you get a double every two shots. Why would I need to do that? Getting 20 in a row is impossible with 90% assuming determinism. I couldn't even if I wanted to, since my only multishot is level 5. there is no way to get exactly 50% multishot (mods currently give 15/20% per level). Also I don't have another multishot. Edited May 7, 2013 by Argoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinrelis Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 Are you serious? About? :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Thanks. I had been wondering about this since I heard it was deterministic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinrelis Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 About? :/ It's common sense. You have a 90% chance to get 2 bullets. This is like saying because a quarter has 2 sides and the chance of flipping it and landing on either side is 50%, I will land on a pattern that goes heads-tails-heads-tails-heads-tails-heads and so on. Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoRDxDeMoN Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Why would I need to do that? Getting 20 in a row is impossible with 90% assuming determinism. I couldn't even if I wanted to, since my only multishot is level 5. there is no way to get exactly 50% multishot (mods currently give 15/20% per level). Also I don't have another multishot. Hey, you're right. Didn't even consider that none of them get to 50%. Magnets, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 It's common sense. You have a 90% chance to get 2 bullets. This is like saying because a quarter has 2 sides and the chance of flipping it and landing on either side is 50%, I will land on a pattern that goes heads-tails-heads-tails-heads-tails-heads and so on. Nonsense. What people were saying about multishot is that if you had 20% it would *always* follow this pattern of bullets fired; 1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-2...and so on and so on. Under that assumption that people held about multishot getting over 20 double shots in a row should have been impossible. That is what he was trying to disprove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lncarnation Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 9/10 means it's like a 10 sided coin and 9 of them are winners.. it's physically possible to win 100 times in a row Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 9/10 means it's like a 10 sided coin and 9 of them are winners.. it's physically possible to win 100 times in a row Its not impossible to win 100 times in a row...just increadibly unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 It's common sense. You have a 90% chance to get 2 bullets. This is like saying because a quarter has 2 sides and the chance of flipping it and landing on either side is 50%, I will land on a pattern that goes heads-tails-heads-tails-heads-tails-heads and so on. Nonsense. That's the thing. People were stating that it was deterministic and would result in a 1-2-1-2 pattern. The idea behind this was that multishot wasn't truly "random", extra percentages over 100 would be added on to the next shot, creating a very consistent pattern in when a multi would happen. The fact that a community moderator claimed that this was true (no offense intended, ced23ric) meant that to say otherwise, you'd either have to be a DE employee or have proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korevas Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 That's the thing. People were stating that it was deterministic and would result in a 1-2-1-2 pattern. The idea behind this was that multishot wasn't truly "random", extra percentages over 100 would be added on to the next shot, creating a very consistent pattern in when a multi would happen. The fact that a community moderator claimed that this was true (no offense intended, ced23ric) meant that to say otherwise, you'd either have to be a DE employee or have proof. Thx for the insight op. People who are negrepping this are obviously not aware of the current consensus in the forums about the mechanics behind the mod, and that apparently, op proved them wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enot83 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I would hope it would not be deterministic as the mod does not read this way (only due to it being incredibly misleading). If that was the intent the tooltip should reflect the appropriate information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linthimar Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Nice work man, and so the DATA MINERS take a leap forward today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 I would hope it would not be deterministic as the mod does not read this way (only due to it being incredibly misleading). If that was the intent the tooltip should reflect the appropriate information. Actually, I wouldn't think that the description would be wrong (it could be taken in two ways and be potentially misleading) if it was deterministic (I support changing it to actually being deterministic, by the way). For example, (the impossible) +50% multishot could be interpreted as: -Every shot gives you 50% of a multishot -Every shot gives you a 50% chance to multishot If the first is true, every other shot would be a multishot, while if the second is true, the distribution of multishots would be random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venarge Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 my 120% does a multi shot on every shot. enough for me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 my 120% does a multi shot on every shot. enough for me.... Something's wrong with your multishot then, it should be doing triple shots occasionally :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueminator Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Max pistol multishot with 120% would follow 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 pattern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Max pistol multishot with 120% would follow 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 pattern? Common thought on the forums is tat it would follow a 2-2-2-2-3-2-2-2-2-3 pattern. As the video shows that wouldn't be the case. You would always fire off 2 bullets with a 20% chance of firing a third. No pattern would be followed at all. OP was showing that multishot is NOT deterministic so it wont follow a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 8, 2013 Author Share Posted May 8, 2013 Bump in case people haven't seen this yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsmeha Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 It's great that you have proof and the math to back it, but who WOULDN'T think that multi-shot was RNG based? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 8, 2013 Author Share Posted May 8, 2013 It's great that you have proof and the math to back it, but who WOULDN'T think that multi-shot was RNG based? You know, one of our community moderators... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFkenny Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Uh, guys? Isn't the % on mods added to (and based on) the base chance of the weapon, rather than actually having a 90% chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Uh, guys? Isn't the % on mods added to (and based on) the base chance of the weapon, rather than actually having a 90% chance? Nope. All weapons have a 0% base chnace of multishot. This mod directly adds the % that it provides. 100% multishot gaurentees you'll multishot every shot. What you said is true for damage, critical chance, and nearly all other mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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