Synoid Gammacor

[saintsspider]

With the right frame T4 is already easy enough. This game is so far from difficult it isn't even funny. Maybe for a newish player things might be tough, but for someone who's been around a while?

 

If my primaries were dealing that much damage it would be even easier. To illustrate, imagine if my Boltor Prime or Soma Prime had double its current DPS. Yeah, I'm sure things would still be very difficult. 

I might be new at forums but in game I am MR 12 and have all prime frames. I do have some experience on my hand if that helps in elaborating my opinion. 

[vaugahn]

I might be new at forums but in game I am MR 12 and have all prime frames. I do have some experience on my hand if that helps in elaborating my opinion. 

 

That wasn't directed at you, just in general.

 

Think about what you're saying for a bit. Take your Synoid out for a spin and tell me when it starts to fall off. Now imagine all your weapons performing like that. Enemies would have to be changed to compensate for that. There's no way things could stay the same.

 

And then we'd be in the exact same place.

 

Here's an example, a very simple one. Imagine there are two enemies and two weapons. One enemy has 5 health, and one enemy has 10 health. One weapon does 2.5 damage, and one weapon does 5 damage. The 5 damage weapon gets buffed into a Synoid version, and now it does 10 damage. It oneshots every enemy now. So they change the enemies, now the first enemy has 10 health and the second enemy has 20 health. The first gun is buffed up to 10 damage to compensate.

 

In both scenarios, the first weapon kills the first enemy in two shots and the second weapon kills the second enemy in two shots. Their relative level of power is the same. If the second weapon had just been nerfed back to 5 after it got buffed up, the the result would have been exactly the same. Either way, the guns are both performing the same.

 

Balance is always relative. And that's why nerfs exist. Sometimes it's easier to reduce one thing, instead of increasing everything around it.

[(XBOX)N0FEARN0LIMITZ]

Thé Syniod needs a MR of 6 to use it

[Marthrym]

stop with these threads

synoid wont be nerfed

^

Though never say never.^^

 

I'm surprised a Mod/Dev hasn't just made a "QQ Synoid Megathread" yet.

IKR

 

 

Since the game is supposedly meant to be balanced around level 40 enemies at max, using endless scaling to justify OP weapons being okay is a moot point. In fact, when a weapon that can easily wreck enemies to up and beyond level 40 can be acquired by coughing up 30 or less platinum and has no other restrictions such as MR,  than there is a problem.

 

I would agree wholeheartedly if the one thing the game uses to gate any new content, well basically most of its content, was one of the most coocoo scalings I have seen in a game yet.

 

Right now, basically everything is hidden behind multiple layers of RNG and an utterly bonkers endless scaling. The day this stops to be true, we can start to nerfbalance every weapon so it doesn't OHK everything below level 40 and doesn't require 3 full mags to kill anything above level 60 for some.

Find the sweet spot first (aka not a stupidely broken scaling, fair mechanics and a "good" AI). Then, and ONLY then, put the content that revolves around it (aka weapons, the mods, abilities, frames and their stats) in line with it. Quite the undertaking if you ask me.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Marthrym

[HandsomeSorcerer]

^

Though never say never.^^

 

IKR

 

 

I would agree wholeheartedly if the one thing the game uses to gate any new content, well basically most of its content, was one of the most coocoo scalings I have seen in a game yet.

 

Right now, basically everything is hidden behind multiple layers of RNG and an utterly bonkers endless scaling. The day this stops to be true, we can start to nerfbalance every weapon so it doesn't OHK everything below level 40 and doesn't require 3 full mags to kill anything above level 60 for some.

Find the sweet spot first (aka not a stupidely broken scaling, fair mechanics and a "good" AI). Then, and ONLY then, put the content that revolves around it (aka weapons, the mods, abilities, frames and their stats) in line with it. Quite the undertaking if you ask me.

 

And your game would be come so boring and stupid, I would rather watch paint dry. T

The formas, catalysts, reactors  and mods are things meant to make a weapon powerful. I dont know about people like you, but im playing this game so that I can kick &#!, not be chained to some noob or Star Map enemy scaling.

The weapons I like have 4 or more formas and a catalyst. I expect them to kick &#! because I bloody hell invested in them.

 

If you want to take that away from me, you have a problem with me.

 

There is a reason high level stuff is exicting, because things get ridiculous, and do more damage and have more armor.

Nerf crowd people like you try to "Force" and shape the game to your whims. Your talk of balance is nothing short of turning the game into Rock-Paper-Scrissor hard counters. This is a F2P game with content having overlapping roles. Your idea of balance is not only impossible, its a delusion in this game model.

 

 

Instead of nerfs, Tier the stuff properly, so that noobs can play with their skanas and bratons. There even is Conclace rating in the game. An easy fix would be to Lock low level Star Maps to a certain Conclave rating,

 

I really want some star maps that start of with level 70+ enemies, especially exterminate. I want some solo fun, without having to prostitute myself to begging people to stay longer than 20 waves in T4 stuff.

[saintsspider]

That wasn't directed at you, just in general.

 

Think about what you're saying for a bit. Take your Synoid out for a spin and tell me when it starts to fall off. Now imagine all your weapons performing like that. Enemies would have to be changed to compensate for that. There's no way things could stay the same.

 

And then we'd be in the exact same place.

 

Here's an example, a very simple one. Imagine there are two enemies and two weapons. One enemy has 5 health, and one enemy has 10 health. One weapon does 2.5 damage, and one weapon does 5 damage. The 5 damage weapon gets buffed into a Synoid version, and now it does 10 damage. It oneshots every enemy now. So they change the enemies, now the first enemy has 10 health and the second enemy has 20 health. The first gun is buffed up to 10 damage to compensate.

 

In both scenarios, the first weapon kills the first enemy in two shots and the second weapon kills the second enemy in two shots. Their relative level of power is the same. If the second weapon had just been nerfed back to 5 after it got buffed up, the the result would have been exactly the same. Either way, the guns are both performing the same.

 

Balance is always relative. And that's why nerfs exist. Sometimes it's easier to reduce one thing, instead of increasing everything around it.

From players perspective DE would get too much hatred if they nerf Sy Gamm, i wouldnt mind but 90% would as far as i think.

I see your point and its valid, though enemies in t3-4 voids are pretty op if you are not using an CP aura or if you are only using 1-2 cp and go above level 30 or 40 min interval, they are hard to kill. 

[vaugahn]

The formas, catalysts, reactors  and mods are things meant to make a weapon powerful. I dont know about people like you, but im playing this game so that I can kick !, not be chained to some noob or Star Map enemy scaling.

 

Welcome to strawman city, population 1.

 

There is no problem with things being powerful. The problem is when their power outstrips the normal framework for game balance. 

 

From players perspective DE would get too much hatred if they nerf Sy Gamm, i wouldnt mind but 90% would as far as i think.

I see your point and its valid, though enemies in t3-4 voids are pretty op if you are not using an CP aura or if you are only using 1-2 cp and go above level 30 or 40 min interval, they are hard to kill. 

 

I doubt they'd get that much hate. They survived nerfing the Acrid, which was basically the exact same situation we have here.

 

And enemies there are supposed to be tough. After a single full rotation, the enemies are intended to force you out of the game. In practice, power crepe and player expectations have led to something very different. If it was up to me, hard stat scaling would be almost nonexistent as it's the source of most of our balance woes.

Edited March 16, 2015 by vaugahn

[saintsspider]

 

The weapons I like have 4 or more formas and a catalyst. I expect them to kick ! because I bloody hell invested in them.

 

If you want to take that away from me, you have a problem with me.

 

Well said. I want that on my Prime primaries

[Davoodoo]

There is a reason high level stuff is exicting, because things get ridiculous, and do more damage and have more armor.

Nerf crowd people like you try to "Force" and shape the game to your whims. Your talk of balance is nothing short of turning the game into Rock-Paper-Scrissor hard counters. This is a F2P game with content having overlapping roles. Your idea of balance is not only impossible, its a delusion in this game model.

 

Enemy dmg->cc everything->cc

Armor->cp

Hp->viral

enemy numbers->4

4->nullifiers->rapid fire weapons

 

But it is we that shape the game to be hard counters...get your facts straight pls.

 

Getting balance is not impossible, its just hard without data and ability to use it, dont claim its not possible if you havent even tried to do it.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Davoodoo

[bunitchu]

Yeah but people use it. And if something is beating all other weapons so why you would use others? And even if you wont use why you would be worse player than them? Others will use it even if its OP.

This is almost like someone uses OP character to beat you and you post on forum that they need to patch that character because these 2 attacks are OP, and someone just tell you just dont play that character, there is no problem in that hmmm?

Yeah but others will use that character against you, so if it will not change in game, it will still make you angry.

In fighting games where is OP attack and someone just spam it, is just a s*um, and dont know how to play this game, so many not spammers will use normal characters because using OP character gives you no fun of playing and no satisfaction. But Warframe is a different story, in game are many of OP weapons and almost everybody are using them. The same with Warframes. Not balanced a whole game.

 

 

I plan on roleplaying Heydan excalibro once the protoskin comes back and synoid is not on the list of what i will equip on him (regardless of how OP it is)

 

I only use sinoid when i really need to place formas on my primary weapons and need to relvl them to 30 and the only reason it is sinoid is because it was my best seccondary to invest into at the moment, but as soon as i get Vaykor marelok, or lex prime, or rakta properly formaed sinoid will collect dust because the gameplay it brings is just plain boring.

 

I like the feel of actually firing a weapon and nailing that awessome damage because the bullet hit the enemy straight on his head rather than just pass a laser marker on an arc and see everything melt.

 

it´s all about fun, i agree some weapons are underperforming, but still you have MANY options of playstyles with different weapons that will be more than enough to get you through things, you dont need to exactly aim at the best of the best every time.

[Marthrym]

And your game would be come so boring and stupid, I would rather watch paint dry. T

The formas, catalysts, reactors  and mods are things meant to make a weapon powerful. I dont know about people like you, but im playing this game so that I can kick !, not be chained to some noob or Star Map enemy scaling.

The weapons I like have 4 or more formas and a catalyst. I expect them to kick ! because I bloody hell invested in them.

 

If you want to take that away from me, you have a problem with me.

 

There is a reason high level stuff is exicting, because things get ridiculous, and do more damage and have more armor.

Nerf crowd people like you try to "Force" and shape the game to your whims. Your talk of balance is nothing short of turning the game into Rock-Paper-Scrissor hard counters. This is a F2P game with content having overlapping roles. Your idea of balance is not only impossible, its a delusion in this game model.

 

 

Instead of nerfs, Tier the stuff properly, so that noobs can play with their skanas and bratons. There even is Conclace rating in the game. An easy fix would be to Lock low level Star Maps to a certain Conclave rating,

 

I really want some star maps that start of with level 70+ enemies, especially exterminate. I want some solo fun, without having to prostitute myself to begging people to stay longer than 20 waves in T4 stuff.

You have issues. Hell, your issues have issues.

First, I'm not in favor of nerfing. I'm in favor of balancing. Balancing also includes buffs, in case you didn't know. Apparently you didn't.

I don't want the Synoid to be nerfed. Did I say I wanted such a thing? Nope. I like it the way it is.

I never said "nerf everything to the ground", did I? Nor did I say I wanted all of the players' efforts, mine included, to mean nothing. I do enjoy facerolling through missions sometimes, to OHK kill grunts with the gear I had to grind my @ss off for. Just not all the time. Unlike you apparently. I also enjoy strategic gameplay, which apparently you know nothing of, so I'll avoid the subject, wouldn't want to confuse you.

How about you stop putting words in my mouth, get off that high horse and use that thing called "brain" to THINK and UNDERSTAND when you bloody read? You might actually find it useful. And maybe even like it, who knows?

 

I wish I could choose enemy level when I start a mission. The Sol system content would be better for it. Many a player wish they could. But hey, newsflash, we can't. I know, ain't that b!tch.

 

It's not about MY game. Or YOURS for that matter. EVERY SINGLE argument you used, I can throw them right back in your face mate. You say you hate me for "trying to force MY vision" on others? Right back at you. Don't force YOUR "vision" on me. Or, like you said, we ARE going to have a problem.

 

This game already IS all about hard counters, wake up. You like high levels. Where EVERYTHING is about hard counters. You must not play the same "high" levels I do. the "High" levels I play usually mean enemies OHK you unless you use hard CC or damage mitigation. AKA "hard counters". Counters that completely neutralize the enemy, making the game boring as Hek and so stupidly dumbed down a brain dead person would understand it fully without even touching it, or like you so aptly described it, it's like watching "paint dry" at that point.

 

And don't try to put words I didn't speak (or type) in my mouth (or fingers). You're obviously terribad at trying to manipulate facts to fit your opinions.

And L2Read, for Lotus' sake...

Edited March 16, 2015 by Marthrym

[HandsomeSorcerer]

You know, I have made some not thought out arguments against a nerf, I havent been in a debate for some years, but considering how many threads are made for a nerf...DE, be merciful.

 

The synoid is the only good automatic secondary that doesnt suck. I dont want to equip the lousy cestras or some other weak auto secondary just to take down nullifier shields.

 

If people want it nerfed, just nerf the damage. I mainly use it to kill nullifiers moving from a corner and thats when I am being playful.

 

I dont like this gun anymore, but its still the only useful automatic secondary gun.

Edited March 17, 2015 by HandsomeSorcerer

[vaugahn]

You know, I have made some not thought out arguments against a nerf, I havent been in a debate for some years, but considering how many threads are made for a nerf...DE, be merciful.

 

The synoid is the only good automatic secondary that doesnt suck. I dont want to equip the lousy cestras or some other weak auto secondary just to take down nullifier shields.

 

If people want it nerfed, just nerf the damage. I mainly use it to kill nullifiers moving from a corner and thats when I am being playful.

 

I dont like this gun anymore, but its still the only useful automatic secondary gun.

 

Nobody wants the gun to be useless. Every gun should be useful. 

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

You know, I have made some not thought out arguments against a nerf, I havent been in a debate for some years, but considering how many threads are made for a nerf...DE, be merciful.

 

The synoid is the only good automatic secondary that doesnt suck. I dont want to equip the lousy cestras or some other weak auto secondary just to take down nullifier shields.

 

If people want it nerfed, just nerf the damage. I mainly use it to kill nullifiers moving from a corner and thats when I am being playful.

 

I dont like this gun anymore, but its still the only useful automatic secondary gun.

It's not the only useless secondary, or even the only useless automatic secondary (wait until the anniversary for the Dex Furis if you don't believe me). But it's in a tier all to itself, which is the problem. Even after using the Dex and seeing that it performs relatively well, you'll probably notice that it can't hold up to the Synoid. That's where the problem is.

[soundtea]

I'm all for a nerf to the Synoid. At the very least make the range equal to the Amprex or give the ammo consumption rate a boost. Even if you just hold it all the time you never run out of ammo because pistol ammo drops are so damn common.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I'm all for a nerf to the Synoid. At the very least make the range equal to the Amprex or give the ammo consumption rate a boost. Even if you just hold it all the time you never run out of ammo because pistol ammo drops are so damn common.

Actually I think the Amprex is a good comparison. High DPS, incredibly easy to use, range that's not often actually limiting, high status, chain killing, but horrible ammo efficiency bring it down a notch. The concept could work for a secondary like the Synoid, although I think even then its DPS could use a nerf.

[-DarkRyu]

With the right frame T4 is already easy enough. This game is so far from difficult it isn't even funny. Maybe for a newish player things might be tough, but for someone who's been around a while?

 

If my primaries were dealing that much damage it would be even easier. To illustrate, imagine if my Boltor Prime or Soma Prime had double its current DPS. Yeah, I'm sure things would still be very difficult. 

Exactly how far out of DEAC do you get? Have you ever enjoyed Survival for an hour or over 15 waves of Defense? The enemies get a lot stronger and to avoid getting killed, you need something stronger than abilities and maxed mods. You need a stronger weapon and that is what the Synoid Gammacor was. With the ammo nerf, the ammo economy has gone into the dirt and you will be reloading more than you're dealing damage. When split seconds matter, you're reloading, not dealing damage, and taking damage. With the addition of the new AFK system, you must run outside of any protective barriers every 50 seconds to make sure you're not marked AFK because you need to run at least 10 meters before it considers you no longer afk. 60 seconds is too short a time to mark someone AFK because Frost and Limbo exist. Firing and casting abilities does not refresh your AFK timer either. You are obligated to run 10 meters or lose all your loot.

 

Sorry to bring the AFK deal into this thread but I figure this makes a good point along side the Synoid Gammacor nerf. Synoid Gammacor was a staple and still is for me but I am reloading more than I am shooting, it feels like. I can kill a few guys before I'm completely out of ammo and rendered nearly harmless. What am I to do? Run in circles and wait until my ammo reserves go back up and hope I don't get flagged AFK? This whole thing is ridiculous. Why not just buff all the Syndicate weapons. They're not exactly the easiest things to get and are considered upgrades to already powerful weapons. What do you think DE intended upon releasing them?