About T4 Key Acquisition (Feedback)

[Renegade343]

Hello all,

 

This thread will be discussing about the acquisition of T4 Keys. 

 

With Interception Missions, at every fourth round (i.e.: A round that is divisible by 4, to make that clear), there would be a T4 Key that can be rewarded, with non-Endless Keys being rewarded at lower level Interception Missions, and Endless Keys being rewarded at higher level Interception Missions. While the intention of having this reward tied to Interception is an (actually pretty good) attempt to get players to play this mission type, through making T4 Keys being only rewarded in Interception, it also brought about a rather large restriction with the number of ways to obtain T4 Keys, compared to all the other Void Key Tiers (T1, T2, T3, can be obtained from Spy 2.0, Survival, Defense, Excavation, and all T1 Missions, compared to only obtaining T4 Keys from Interception Missions) (except for T4 Sabotage, which can be obtained from high level Spy 2.0 as well) (and maybe Syndicate Key packs, depending on luck). This would make Interception Missions feel more repetitive for players that are aiming to obtain a few T4 Keys to get some new Prime parts (since some Prime parts are restricted to T4), whereas for T1 - T3 Keys, the player has quite a few options to get them. 

 

Considering the fact that T4 Keys are meant to be rarer as well, and thus should not be as common as T1 - T3 Keys (apart from the T4 Key Rewards from the Syndicates before the Key pack came), would it be wanted to have a few T4 Keys be rewarded at specific missions apart from Interception?

 

For instance, the two T4 Keys Capture and Extermination will be rewarded in playing high level Capture Missions and Extermination Missions respectively (i.e.: Level 25+) (or in their Nightmare Missions), but with a requirement:

 

The player must be stealthy (i.e.: Can only activate the alarm once at most, or else there would be no T4 Key reward [as for why the alarm can be activated once, it is because sometimes, enemies tend to just activate the alarm for no apparent reason, so there would be a bit of leeway with that requirement in case the enemies got a bit too jumpy]) (if the requirement for obtaining a T4 Capture/Extermination Key is playing a Capture/Extermination Nightmare Mission stealthily, then the rewarded Key will not replace the Nightmare mod reward). If the alarm is activated the first time, the player will have 5 seconds to approach a console, and then 15 seconds to deactivate it (the Grineer one), or the time given for the Corpus cipher to deactivate it. 

 

But what about abilities with this requirement? Surely I can bring a Loki/Ash, then reap the rewards without sweat!

 

And so, the other restriction with players trying to obtain T4 Capture/Extermination with playing Capture/Extermination Missions stealthily is that if an ability that renders the player invisible is used (Super Jump, Invisibility, Undertow etc.), then the chances of obtaining a T4 Capture/Extermination Mission would become: 

 

100% x 2^{-Invis_Ability_Used}

 

That means if a player uses Invisibility/Smoke Screen once in a Capture/Extermination mission to be stealthy to get the T4 Key reward, he/she will now have 100% x 0.5 = 50% of being rewarded a T4 Key. This also means that attempting to obtain a T4 Capture/Extermination Key through playing Capture/Extermination Missions stealthily will need more skill (observational, planning etc.) than pressing the ability button and going off for easy breaks. 

 

This suggestion would allow T4 Keys to be obtained in another mission than Interception to allow players a bit of choice to how to get a T4 Key, but would also make it more challenging to obtain them (thus keeping their relative rarity). 

 

Please discuss whether this would be a valid suggestion to lessen T4 Key acquisition restriction.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Renegade343

[xethier]

I like the idea of expanding the drop locations of t4 keys. But i really can't condone penalizing players for using abilities.

Does frost get a 50% drop for using snow globe?

Banshee for using sonar / silence?

 

Other than that. not bad.

[Renegade343]

I like the idea of expanding the drop locations of t4 keys. But i really can't condone penalizing players for using abilities.

Read again: Invisibility skills. 

[xethier]

Read again: Invisibility skills. 

 

thanks, i read it just fine the first time.

the fact is you're penalizing players for using abilities.

if you're going to penalize loki / ash players for using invisibility, you should go ahead and penalize other frames for using their abilities to.

wanna start dropping the chances of getting t4 keys in interception for using radial disarm or snow globe in addition?

 

I like the expansion of locations to acquire keys, but the concept of dropping the chances due to actually using your ability set... never in life.

[Renegade343]

the fact is you're penalizing players for using abilities.

In which the trade-off is that the player would have a definite chance of obtaining a T4 Key. 

 

Note that there has to be some restrictions with tying up full-on stealth in a mission to good rewards. While yes, a few Warframes would be a bit restricted, it is only one ability. Having no restrictions would just result in very easy acquisition of those Keys, which somewhat defeats the purpose of obtaining a T4 Key: Rare, a bit challenging to get to. 

 

In short, run the challenge, and get the rewards once the challenge is met. 

[xethier]

In which the trade-off is that the player would have a definite chance of obtaining a T4 Key. 

 

Note that there has to be some restrictions with tying up full-on stealth in a mission to good rewards. While yes, a few Warframes would be a bit restricted, it is only one ability. Having no restrictions would just result in very easy acquisition of those Keys, which somewhat defeats the purpose of obtaining a T4 Key: Rare, a bit challenging to get to. 

 

In short, run the challenge, and get the rewards once the challenge is met. 

 

then don't make it a guaranteed key. 

penalizing a player for using an ability is a poor design.

[nmuaddib]

I also endorse expanding ways to get T4, right now they are pretty hard for high level solo players, once Interception is not lone wolf friendly. I can solo pretty much everything else, including all void tiers, but not interception, I mean, it can be done, for sure, but it is a pain...

 

Unfortunately I don't like your other suggestions that much, but good point and good try, anyway. 

[Renegade343]

then don't make it a guaranteed key. 

In which that is also a problem, because players are going to wonder, "What is the point of me doing these missions stealthily and carefully if I only have a shot at a T4 Key (and given with DE(L), a rather low shot), when Interception can be done more quickly, and I get one guaranteed T4 Key?".

 

See the problem? Something has got to give way, and the ability restriction is the least damaging one.  

[xethier]

In which that is also a problem, because players are going to wonder, "What is the point of me doing these missions stealthily and carefully if I only have a shot at a T4 Key (and given with DE(L), a rather low shot), when Interception can be done more quickly, and I get one guaranteed T4 Key?".

 

See the problem? Something has got to give way, and the ability restriction is the least damaging one.  

 

it doesn't really matter in the long run as DE will NEVER allow a guaranteed key for a single non-endless mission to begin with.

no matter how many restrictions you toss up.

[Renegade343]

it doesn't really matter in the long run as DE will NEVER allow a guaranteed key for a single non-endless mission to begin with.

Spy 2.0 already rewards a guaranteed Key, and it is non-Endless. 

 

EDIT: Actually, more like 99% of the time. 

Edited March 19, 2015 by Renegade343

[xethier]

Spy 2.0 already rewards a guaranteed Key, and it is non-Endless. 

 

last i checked it doesn't guarantee a t4sab every time

nor does it guarantee a key unless you get all of the data vaults without activating alarms.

... and it certainly doesn't penalize players for using abilities.

 

if you want to come up with a way to challenge players, GREAT! i'm all for it. but putting restrictions on the two stealth frames for using stealth abilities on a mission that rewards players for being stealthy... not so much.

[Valar.Morghulis]

In which the trade-off is that the player would have a definite chance of obtaining a T4 Key. 

 

Note that there has to be some restrictions with tying up full-on stealth in a mission to good rewards. While yes, a few Warframes would be a bit restricted, it is only one ability. Having no restrictions would just result in very easy acquisition of those Keys, which somewhat defeats the purpose of obtaining a T4 Key: Rare, a bit challenging to get to. 

 

In short, run the challenge, and get the rewards once the challenge is met. 

 

Based on your logic we should we penalize people that use Miasma/Radial Javelin/Peacemaker in Interception/Exterminate or  people that use MPrime/Snow Globe on Defense Missions.

 

Punishing someone for using an ability/frame that is better suited for a mission type is not fun for the player.

[Renegade343]

nor does it guarantee a key unless you get all of the data vaults without activating alarms.

Actually, you do get a Key 99% of the time, regardless of whether you activated the alarm or not. The only thing that changes is the Affinity. 

 

Punishing someone for using an ability/frame that is better suited for a mission type is not fun for the player.

It is not just "better suited". It is basically "get the Warframe, and off to easy mode for stealth by just pressing 2 every time.". 

 

T4 Keys are supposed to be a bit more difficult to obtain, but having difficulty being equivalent to chance is not difficult nor challenging. Think of it as a small Tactical Alert: Some restrictions are set. Players now have to find other ways to get through it.