Reason For Clans

[ZeroPhobic]

In the MMO world of gaming clans and guilds make sense, we need them for doing the big raid bosses and it helps people stay social and trade their crafts instead of selling them to npc's. As for Warframe it s a great idea for those who want that experience in a single player game with some social elements, but it should not be a forced issue. We should not HAVE to get a clan to "discover" new weapons or crafting to allow us to mod our weapons and frames, this is going to drive some people away from the game. This is a personal opinion and it is a view that I have, is there science behind this and do I have proof this is terrible? No, I just think that forcing a clan structure on people, many who play this as a casual game for limited amount of time would be better off having a private as well as public dojo, where we select few who do not belong to a clan, maybe Dev ran dojo or a small simply no frills public place for people to do the same type of things the larger private ones do if they are for upgrading.

 

This is starting to become a bit us and them already and hasn't even left beta, us and them because of the exclusive items either bought or through one time events. The Devs need to start thinking inclusive A LOT more than exclusive or they will see a game that shrinks instead of grows for them. I already have lost much interest in playing from both missing the events and now hearing the news of forced clans. Again only my views and opinions... flame on.

[Sitzpinkler]

Now, while I understand that some folks like to play alone, from my personal experience, I couldn't fathom it.  I wouldn't have put 90% of the time that I put into this game if it weren't for playing with a static group.  It began as some local friends and ended up with a handful of people in a clan.  It's the social interaction that keeps most players in a game.  The game doesn't change much, but the people one "hangs out" with are typically the reason one stays. 

 

I guess I am curious more of how you manage to keep interest in a game that simply has grinding/farming at the moment by yourself.  I also may not know enough about clans and their "minimums" but there are...creative ways of getting a clan started for just yourself, I would imagine.  A "public" dojo doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my mind.  The dojo seems to be intended for people to come together as a unit, and a public one would just be a sea of random people with a tie of...being in the same game.  Plus, if trading gets implemented, and it can only be done in the space of a dojo, it kind of defeats the purpose of it should it be public.

[Bunnysanta]

What about you could make your clan's logo and get blueprints to get your weapon a "clan" weapon skin? This was just a random idea, but what do you think?

[SoaringEagle]

Dojo = Raid boss in Warframe. People gotta get together to build their house. With more people the faster it will get built. One person building and it will go a lot slower, just like in real life. >_> Be happy this raid boss won't kill you if you solo it.

 

Trading I believe they mentioned would be limited to clans only, and that the trading itself will be limited. At the moment I'm sitting on 70k+ Salvage and Nano Spores with only the Plasma sword left to build, out of all the weapons, and I didn't have to use the trading system to accomplish that.

 

Nothing has been mentioned about weapons or warframes, or anything else that I can think of, which would be limited to a clan.

[LazyTemplar]

What about you could make your clan's logo and get blueprints to get your weapon a "clan" weapon skin? This was just a random idea, but what do you think?

 

Clan swag, prestige items, and other cosmetic items would be fine.  Just no "have to join a big clan to get X powerful item" and I think we'll be okay.  

Edited May 9, 2013 by LazyTemplar

[TGPhoenix]

Dojo = Raid boss in Warframe. People gotta get together to build their house. With more people the faster it will get built. One person building and it will go a lot slower, just like in real life. >_> Be happy this raid boss won't kill you if you solo it.

 

Trading I believe they mentioned would be limited to clans only, and that the trading itself will be limited. At the moment I'm sitting on 70k+ Salvage and Nano Spores with only the Plasma sword left to build, out of all the weapons, and I didn't have to use the trading system to accomplish that.

 

Nothing has been mentioned about weapons or warframes, or anything else that I can think of, which would be limited to a clan.

During the most recent live stream, they mentioned that the dojo research lab was going to be a way to unlock upper tier weapons, some of which may also include a very high mastery rating in order to use as well (Steve I believe it was, said something about rank 9 to unlock things down the road). This means that being in a clan really will be required, though I don't see how this is any different then any other MMO I have ever played. The future of "raid" content sounds to be a ways down the road still (also from latest live stream), but for now working together and getting the clan system implemented/built up as we start working together is a step in the right direction. Without groups actually capable of completing raid content, what is the point in having it? To the OP's point of wanting to solo... this is an MMO, nothing more needs to be said.

[Mediave]

In the MMO world of gaming clans and guilds make sense, we need them for doing the big raid bosses and it helps people stay social and trade their crafts instead of selling them to npc's. As for Warframe it s a great idea for those who want that experience in a single player game with some social elements, but it should not be a forced issue. We should not HAVE to get a clan to "discover" new weapons or crafting to allow us to mod our weapons and frames, this is going to drive some people away from the game. This is a personal opinion and it is a view that I have, is there science behind this and do I have proof this is terrible? No, I just think that forcing a clan structure on people, many who play this as a casual game for limited amount of time would be better off having a private as well as public dojo, where we select few who do not belong to a clan, maybe Dev ran dojo or a small simply no frills public place for people to do the same type of things the larger private ones do if they are for upgrading.

 

This is starting to become a bit us and them already and hasn't even left beta, us and them because of the exclusive items either bought or through one time events. The Devs need to start thinking inclusive A LOT more than exclusive or they will see a game that shrinks instead of grows for them. I already have lost much interest in playing from both missing the events and now hearing the news of forced clans. Again only my views and opinions... flame on.

 

You should watch the Live stream from yesterday (Wednesday, May 8th).  Someone asked them a question about whether single players who do not wish to join, would be able to make their own, smaller dojos.  While they said not right now, once they see the feedback from the Dojo system, and if there is enough want for it by the community, it's something they'll consider.  That being said, they openly stated that they want people to join clans and play together.  You have the option to solo, sure, but this is a multiplayer game.

[ZeroPhobic]

Mediave, Thanks for the comment, but I did watch the stream and that where this feeling of dread is coming from. When I heard about the clan update coming for update 8, I was happy for the clan guys (the people in a clan) I never thought it would be a forced thing for us all if we wanted to get the high tier stuff unlocked someday!

Edited May 14, 2013 by ZeroPhobic

[escape123]

I tend to agree with the OP. A clan should be a great optional addition to the game, not something that is forced or imposed on you - lest you miss out on any kind of weapons or content. The ability to solo or PUG in this game and still clear content is great. Don't forget that PUGGING is still playing with others in a multiplayer environment. Having to organize, wait and form optimal groups and raids as the ONLY practical way to accomplish future content will definitely turn off a good segment of this game's population

[Belpharon]

In the MMO world of gaming clans and guilds make sense, we need them for doing the big raid bosses and it helps people stay social and trade their crafts instead of selling them to npc's. As for Warframe it s a great idea for those who want that experience in a single player game with some social elements, but it should not be a forced issue. We should not HAVE to get a clan to "discover" new weapons or crafting to allow us to mod our weapons and frames, this is going to drive some people away from the game. This is a personal opinion and it is a view that I have, is there science behind this and do I have proof this is terrible? No, I just think that forcing a clan structure on people, many who play this as a casual game for limited amount of time would be better off having a private as well as public dojo, where we select few who do not belong to a clan, maybe Dev ran dojo or a small simply no frills public place for people to do the same type of things the larger private ones do if they are for upgrading.

 

This is starting to become a bit us and them already and hasn't even left beta, us and them because of the exclusive items either bought or through one time events. The Devs need to start thinking inclusive A LOT more than exclusive or they will see a game that shrinks instead of grows for them. I already have lost much interest in playing from both missing the events and now hearing the news of forced clans. Again only my views and opinions... flame on.

 

I have to agree, not because I perfer the solo game but rather because I pefer PUGs to Clans. 

 

The unfortunate side effect of being in a clan is the necessity to contribute time and/or resources to the clan.  Instead of Warframe being just a game I can log into for a few hours or perhaps even a single mission, a Clan means I now have obligations.  I am expected to partisipate in Clan events.  I am expected to be an active player.  I am expected to contribute resources I may want to use be build a frame or weapon, to the Clan instead.  I may even be expected to be online and playing at specific times.   There is also almost inevitabilty politics you have to get involved with.  This is the unfortuate side effect of being in a clan/guild.

 

Now I am not saying this is necessarily a bad thing and at one point I was even an assistant guild leader for a guild of over 200 in Everquest but the point is that not everyone wants the same thing out of each and every game they play.

 

Warframe for me is just about logging in and having fun.  I don't want to have to be part of a larger social organization, rely on them and/or follow their policies to enjoy the game.

[ZeroPhobic]

Thanks everyone so far for the great comments on either side of this topic. I love the different views on this issue with a bit good nature, and intelligent posters, thanks again!

[Qb3rt]

Clans are currently nothing but a separate chat channel. Agree that more depth is welcome. Would ideally prefer some sort of clan competition system to help satisfy competitive folks clamoring for PvP ... while retaining the core PvE focus of the game.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Qb3rt

[Excitonex]

I have to agree, not because I perfer the solo game but rather because I pefer PUGs to Clans. 

 

The unfortunate side effect of being in a clan is the necessity to contribute time and/or resources to the clan.  Instead of Warframe being just a game I can log into for a few hours or perhaps even a single mission, a Clan means I now have obligations.  I am expected to partisipate in Clan events.  I am expected to be an active player.  I am expected to contribute resources I may want to use be build a frame or weapon, to the Clan instead.  I may even be expected to be online and playing at specific times.   There is also almost inevitabilty politics you have to get involved with.  This is the unfortuate side effect of being in a clan/guild.

 

Now I am not saying this is necessarily a bad thing and at one point I was even an assistant guild leader for a guild of over 200 in Everquest but the point is that not everyone wants the same thing out of each and every game they play.

 

Warframe for me is just about logging in and having fun.  I don't want to have to be part of a larger social organization, rely on them and/or follow their policies to enjoy the game.

It sounds like you fear scheduled play, not playing with other people. Not every clan is going to force you to do these things to be a part of the clan. There is no reason you can't join a small clan with a few like-minded people and feel no pressure to contribute more than you want. I know I don't tell everyone in my clan how to live and I can't have the only clan that does so. If you can't find a clan to join then why not make one and invite some of the PUGs you enjoy running with?

 

I can't fathom a person arguing for a multiplayer game to have fewer community/multiplayer aspects. The dojo system seems very ambitious and should be a very interesting addition to Warframe.

[ZeroPhobic]

It sounds like you fear scheduled play, not playing with other people. Not every clan is going to force you to do these things to be a part of the clan. There is no reason you can't join a small clan with a few like-minded people and feel no pressure to contribute more than you want. I know I don't tell everyone in my clan how to live and I can't have the only clan that does so. If you can't find a clan to join then why not make one and invite some of the PUGs you enjoy running with?

 

I can't fathom a person arguing for a multiplayer game to have fewer community/multiplayer aspects. The dojo system seems very ambitious and should be a very interesting addition to Warframe.

Excitonex, thank you for your view on this issue, but I feel you are missing the point just a bit. It's not that the post is about having less multi-player or community anything or even not have clan expansion. In fact, I'm all for this expansion and any other clan based one they put out. The problem that is being discussed is, why MAKE people join a clan to get upgrades or even research the upgrade for weapons or frames? Forcing people to join a group to get the full potential from their weapons or frames is just such a bad idea for a single player game with option to group aspects, they would be driving away their casual base and lets face it, once the casual player goes the only ones left are a small group of hardcores that have their clans they play with and don't do pick-ups or random groups anyway.

 

So to put the fine point on this I would say "power to the clan updates, just be careful what type of material you are denying the rest of us."

Edited May 14, 2013 by ZeroPhobic

[Mediave]

Excitonex, thank you for your view on this issue, but I feel you are missing the point just a bit. It's not that the post is about having less multi-player or community anything or even not have clan expansion. In fact, I'm all for this expansion and any other clan based one they put out. The problem that is being discussed is, why MAKE people join a clan to get upgrades or even research the upgrade for weapons or frames? Forcing people to join a group to get the full potential from their weapons or frames is just such a bad idea for a single player game with option to group aspects, they would be driving away their casual base and lets face it, once the casual player goes the only ones left are a small group of hardcores that have their clans they play with and don't do pick-ups or random groups anyway.

 

So to put the fine point on this I would say "power to the clan updates, just be careful what type of material you are denying the rest of us."

 

Most MMO's give you some kind of benefit to joining a guild/clan.  Obviously, every mmo handles it differently, but the fact is, if there is no reason to join a clan, most will not.  Especially since this game only supports 4 man teams at the moment.  And the way I see it, there's nothing stopping people who'd rather play solo, from joining a clan, getting whatever Clan weapons they want to get, then quitting said clan if they decide they don't want to stay.

[ZeroPhobic]

Most MMO's give you some kind of benefit to joining a guild/clan.  Obviously, every mmo handles it differently, but the fact is, if there is no reason to join a clan, most will not.  Especially since this game only supports 4 man teams at the moment.  And the way I see it, there's nothing stopping people who'd rather play solo, from joining a clan, getting whatever Clan weapons they want to get, then quitting said clan if they decide they don't want to stay.

Most clans that put the time in to researching and getting said upgrades normally are not the ones that people just can join for a day get the rewards and quit. The type of clan that will openly recruit whomever are not the type to have the members that will work hard and pool resources to make these types of moves forward. But, maybe you are right and we can all ninja upgrade and abandon these clans after we're done.

[Mediave]

Most clans that put the time in to researching and getting said upgrades normally are not the ones that people just can join for a day get the rewards and quit. The type of clan that will openly recruit whomever are not the type to have the members that will work hard and pool resources to make these types of moves forward. But, maybe you are right and we can all ninja upgrade and abandon these clans after we're done.

 

Not necessarily true.  I've seen lots of very large guilds in games such as EQ2 that were designed just for the purpose of players to join, and use their crafting facilities, etc.  You can't steal from players with the system DE is putting this through under, so there are no risks of letting randoms join just to research weapons.  =)

 

Also, you don't need a large clan to do this sort of thing.  Bigger clans will get the research done faster, sure, but it's not a requirement.

[Sophronius]

I am in agreement that you should not be forced into a clan in order to aquire everything the game has to offer. For other MMO's with crafting guilds that is commonly an optional thing, you can still aquire everything solo but being in a guild speeds up the process. The possible problem is that if they focus on larger clans then it would be relatively impossible for smaller ones to aquire their content without working at it for months at a time. I do not care about working this long at something digital, binary, and essentially non-existant. I would rather work more hours at my real job and get more money so that I could aquire a better car or something. Warframe is a leisure, not a chore.

 

Personally, I do not like joining huge clans because of how often problems arise in huge clans. Indeed there may be some purely for crafting, however I am the owner of a clan that my friends and I prefer to be in more or less exclusively. Often we will even just go out and do something instead of sit and play Warframe. Basicly I am stating that I get enough socialization outside of Warframe and do not need any clan outside of my own to compensate for that.

Plain and simple, there are people who just don't want to be in a huge clan for whatever reason. They should not be restricted in game content (even having to work a few months for it) just because they are not in a large clan.

A relatively good suggestion to solve the problem would be that rooms such as the research lab or other important rooms for which to aquire more in game content should cost less reasources than rooms for aesthetic. Perhaps also restrict the amount of research that can be done in one lab so that larger clans would need to build more of them.

Otherwise there will be a gap of people with all kinds of crap, and people with nothing who will become frustrated because they do not wish to join a huge clan. This could potentially result in a loss of players. I know I would drop out of Warframe myself if this became an issue. Once again I find Warframe a leisure, I honestly prefer a smaller group of friends rather than being in a clan with 50+ people I don't even know, and I do not desire to work a job on Warframe when I already work a job in reality.

[ReiganCross]

ZeroPhobic, on 15 May 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Most clans that put the time in to researching and getting said upgrades normally are not the ones that people just can join for a day get the rewards and quit. The type of clan that will openly recruit whomever are not the type to have the members that will work hard and pool resources to make these types of moves forward. But, maybe you are right and we can all ninja upgrade and abandon these clans after we're done.

We are all Space Ninjas after all.

[ZeroPhobic]

I am in agreement that you should not be forced into a clan in order to aquire everything the game has to offer. For other MMO's with crafting guilds that is commonly an optional thing, you can still aquire everything solo but being in a guild speeds up the process. The possible problem is that if they focus on larger clans then it would be relatively impossible for smaller ones to aquire their content without working at it for months at a time. I do not care about working this long at something digital, binary, and essentially non-existant. I would rather work more hours at my real job and get more money so that I could aquire a better car or something. Warframe is a leisure, not a chore.

 

Personally, I do not like joining huge clans because of how often problems arise in huge clans. Indeed there may be some purely for crafting, however I am the owner of a clan that my friends and I prefer to be in more or less exclusively. Often we will even just go out and do something instead of sit and play Warframe. Basicly I am stating that I get enough socialization outside of Warframe and do not need any clan outside of my own to compensate for that.

Plain and simple, there are people who just don't want to be in a huge clan for whatever reason. They should not be restricted in game content (even having to work a few months for it) just because they are not in a large clan.

A relatively good suggestion to solve the problem would be that rooms such as the research lab or other important rooms for which to aquire more in game content should cost less reasources than rooms for aesthetic. Perhaps also restrict the amount of research that can be done in one lab so that larger clans would need to build more of them.

Otherwise there will be a gap of people with all kinds of crap, and people with nothing who will become frustrated because they do not wish to join a huge clan. This could potentially result in a loss of players. I know I would drop out of Warframe myself if this became an issue. Once again I find Warframe a leisure, I honestly prefer a smaller group of friends rather than being in a clan with 50+ people I don't even know, and I do not desire to work a job on Warframe when I already work a job in reality.

My Hero!

[Mediave]

I am in agreement that you should not be forced into a clan in order to aquire everything the game has to offer. For other MMO's with crafting guilds that is commonly an optional thing, you can still aquire everything solo but being in a guild speeds up the process. The possible problem is that if they focus on larger clans then it would be relatively impossible for smaller ones to aquire their content without working at it for months at a time. I do not care about working this long at something digital, binary, and essentially non-existant. I would rather work more hours at my real job and get more money so that I could aquire a better car or something. Warframe is a leisure, not a chore.

 

Personally, I do not like joining huge clans because of how often problems arise in huge clans. Indeed there may be some purely for crafting, however I am the owner of a clan that my friends and I prefer to be in more or less exclusively. Often we will even just go out and do something instead of sit and play Warframe. Basicly I am stating that I get enough socialization outside of Warframe and do not need any clan outside of my own to compensate for that.

Plain and simple, there are people who just don't want to be in a huge clan for whatever reason. They should not be restricted in game content (even having to work a few months for it) just because they are not in a large clan.

A relatively good suggestion to solve the problem would be that rooms such as the research lab or other important rooms for which to aquire more in game content should cost less reasources than rooms for aesthetic. Perhaps also restrict the amount of research that can be done in one lab so that larger clans would need to build more of them.

Otherwise there will be a gap of people with all kinds of crap, and people with nothing who will become frustrated because they do not wish to join a huge clan. This could potentially result in a loss of players. I know I would drop out of Warframe myself if this became an issue. Once again I find Warframe a leisure, I honestly prefer a smaller group of friends rather than being in a clan with 50+ people I don't even know, and I do not desire to work a job on Warframe when I already work a job in reality.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't get where you're coming from with this.  The way you're responding, sounds like you already know how much you'll have to do to get these weapons, and how much it'll cost to buy more rooms, etc, for your dojo.  You do not.

 

These sort of things aren't going to be inaccessible to the majority of players, this is a trend that is currently non-existent in the game, and I highly doubt we'll be seeing it now.  That being said, they aren't going to hand you everything on a silver platter.  If a smaller guild can unlock everything there is to offer within a week, there's no reason for larger guilds, and no incentive to be in/create one.  They'll get stuff done faster because there are more people there to work on and contribute to it.  Your post comes off as this being unfair to smaller guilds.  If you choose to be in a smaller guild, that's your choice.  Larger guilds shouldn't be somehow penalized for it.

 

 

 

A relatively good suggestion to solve the problem would be that rooms such as the research lab or other important rooms for which to aquire more in game content should cost less reasources than rooms for aesthetic.

 

How is this a good suggestion? This doesn't even make sense!  This is akin to saying a bare bones car should cost more than a fully loaded vehicle, just because it is visually pleasing.

 

Your post essentially boils down to you saying you want everything the game has to offer, without taking part in everything required to get it.  If you don't want to join a clan, you don't get clan items.  Sorry, but that makes sense, and that's how it is.  You won't get Mag parts to drop if you don't farm Nef Anyo.

[Sophronius]

I don't want to end up with what I heard about STO. (I know it could just be a rumor) Apparently there are teirs in research and developement for Guilds in STO. A small guild would literally require 1 full year to reach teir 5 items. Massive guilds have been formed to speed this up. Apparently it came down to leaders having to lock researching abilities b/c of people causing problems. Leaders would then have to take requests for researching things for others...etc.. The idea that you would either have to work for a very lengthy amount of time for something or join a huge guild does not interest me.

 

The livestream had shown 50,000 of some materials required to build rooms. I know that it was just a mock-up, however what if that does end up being relatively how much it is? I never stated that I know for a fact that this would happen. I am saying that I do not want to see this happen.

 

I have aquired through gameplay 3 Warframes that are rank 30 potatoed. I have also aquired several weapons and artifacts through gameplay. These items did not take me months to aquire by actually playing the game. Did I mention that I actually worked for these items? I do not request everything to just be given, I don't mind a little work. But when I end up putting over 100+ hours into just getting a room so that I can begin research, that's excessive. Instead I could have very well made around $2,000 in 100+ hours doing my real job.

If what I suggested is penalizing larger clans, then why not just make a platinum alternative? I don't mind paying real cash for things to get done.

 

Community wise... If building rooms or what not ends up being massively reasource costly, then how many people do you think are going to join a massive clan only so that they can get more stuff? That will not "bring together the community" which is what it's supposed to be about. I will admit that each week the clan I am in increases in size. However I know that it still will not be a massive clan. I am not against massive clans. But I do not think that massive clans should be focused on for the set required amount of reasources to build something. There are many people who will likely be in smaller clans should the reasource cost not be rediculously high. Pulling together to create something in game is a great idea. But considering that it is just a game, it should be within reasonable reach for most people. Not everyone and their mother is going to be in a massive clan, which means that it is possible that massive clans may not make up the majority of players.

[Khaladun]

On the flip note though there are many instances in other MMOs where people join "casual" guilds or guilds allow "casual" players. I have both ran and been in guilds where we had people just wanted somewhere to hang their hat and share use of the guild bank. Possibly have some people to chat with. They never asked about raiding or ever showed interest, they just liked hanging out. I don't see why this trend won't carry over to warframe. My clan will have sceduled events and good shenanigans for those who wish to come along, but for those who don't, I hold no grudge unless they're trolling/harassing/being destructive in some way.

[Phoenix86]

So basically OP is asking to be allowed to get/use a clan content without being in a clan... ?

 

[Venarge]

Plain and simple, there are people who just don't want to be in a huge clan for whatever reason. They should not be restricted in game content (even having to work a few months for it) just because they are not in a large clan.

Yeah, so what. I have a clan of 6 people. And we dont give a sh** about the requirments. If you want to enjoy the same stuff huge clans have, you just have to work hard. You cant expect to get a house within 1 month if you only have 2 helpers just because someone else did in this time with 100 helping hands. Its not how this should be. There should definitly be an advantage for bigger clans since they gathered a huge amount of people. Personally, I dont think the lab will cost very much since they provide important upgrades. Every other thing should still cost a lot and should be hard to get if you have a small/ one man clan.