First Person View

[Vaze]

Recently I encountered a tiny bug after hacking a console. I found myself inside the head of the Tenno. The camera was in first person view but with the back of the head still visible. That obscured my view a bit, but looking up made it disappear. Now I put this in the Feedback section and not the Bugs section, because this bug is really cool in itself.

 

I took some pictures without the head in the way. See for yourselves:

 

Isn't that cool? The weapons are detailed enough to be seen up close like that (not with my graphic settings though, I had to lower the details to the minimum, faulty GPU). Once the head is removed and parts of the body become invisible while doing acrobatics and parkour, this could be a viable alternative to the current view. Not that I want this to be on all the time. Just sometimes. To feel like a Tenno would. To be in their skin for a while.

 

There is o need for extensive coding, just a few "hide" commands for certain bodyparts and camera placement. The switch button would be the same as the one for camera position left/right. It would not be forced on anybody and it would probably not be that refined, especially melee, but with the new Simulacrum, there could be some experimental features available for testing. Like this one. No harm done.

 

A while back I posted something about first person view and somebody thought it would take a massive change to the game engine. But seeing this makes it unnecessary. It works just fine now (as a bug).

 

Seriously though. It is worth a shot. To see what it would be like. I don't know how to reproduce this bug, but I will surely try it with prettier weapons. And powers!

Edited March 21, 2015 by Vaze

[NovusNova]

DE have already said in the past when this came up that they are not interested in adding First Person View. 

[Eldnacpeek]

"There is no need for extensive coding, just a few "hide" commands for certain bodyparts and camera placement."

 

 

First of all, do you know to specifically code for this game? If not, you can't assume it's going to be easy.

 

Second of all, if you're implying that the code would be easy, it means first-person view would be exact. This means that you'll do everything realistically. 

 

Go ahead and make yourself nauseous by rolling, cart-wheeling, back-flipping, regular knockdown recovery, Handspring knockdown recovery, using Blade Storm, using Teleport, using Switch Teleport, using Radial Disarm, getting grappled by an Ancient or Scorpion, using Supra or Dual Cestra or any super high recoil firearm, using Blind Justice, using Cleaving Whirlwind, using Tempo Royale, using Vermilion Storm, USING MELEE IN THE FIRST PLACE, etc, etc, etc.

 

Third, as stated above, DE said they weren't interested in adding first-person mode.

Edited March 21, 2015 by LazerSkink

[Vaze]

DE have already said in the past when this came up that they are not interested in adding First Person View. 

I know. Because a game with a great deal of melee, parkour, animations and other stuff around the character MUST have 3rd person view as the primary view. They don't want 1st person view of the same importance and 3rd p.v. I get it.

But again, seeing it in a "bug" makes me think that an option to try out a bare-bone version of 1st p.v. in a very limited environment (Simulacrum) could be really interesting.

 

Second of all, if you're implying that the code would be easy, it means first-person view would be exact. This means that you'll do everything realistically. 

 

Go ahead and make yourself nauseous by rolling, cart-wheeling, back-flipping, regular knockdown recovery, Handspring knockdown recovery, using Blade Storm, using Teleport, using Switch Teleport, using Radial Blind, getting grappled by an Ancient or Scorpion, using Blind Justice, using Supra or Dual Cestra or any super high recoil firearm, using Cleaving Whirlwind, using Tempo Royale, using Vermilion Storm, USING MELEE IN THE FIRST PLACE, etc, etc, etc.

I know a little bit about coding. Have you encountered this bug yet? I have today. You must thing that 1st p.v. attaches the camera to the eyeballs. Wrong. In this bug literally NOTHING changed, except the camera placement. I know, I ran with it, jumped with it, didn't roll - needed to hurry to extraction. That's it. Only the camera moved into the same coordinates as the head in idle/hacking/whatever. Program this (3 numbers) + remove the head textures (you can see it in a lagfest, headless rhinos [player1.frame.head.enabled = 0;]). And as I said earlier. No need for precision, just a taste of it in a limited area.

Also if you ever played Star Wars: Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast, they made it really acceptable there. Not much use in blade fights, but in a gunfight it was a welcome transition. Fallout 3 and New Vegas have both views as well, but they might be head centered games, where the head never moved. So I leave those out.

 

The said bug just "forgot" to move the camera back into it's previous position after hacking.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Vaze

[Tuuhea_Takasumu]

I don't know much coding either but I don't think it's difficult or time consuming to change the camera position to where the head would be and then not render your own warframe. Why not let players try such via a debug command or something? Make the bug a feature.

 

What comes to rolling and parkour, those worked fine in Mirror's Edge, Half-life Opera and Action Half-life.

[Kasarian]

Go ahead and make yourself nauseous by rolling, cart-wheeling, back-flipping, regular knockdown recovery, Handspring knockdown recovery, using Blade Storm, using Teleport, using Switch Teleport, using Radial Disarm, getting grappled by an Ancient or Scorpion, using Supra or Dual Cestra or any super high recoil firearm, using Blind Justice, using Cleaving Whirlwind, using Tempo Royale, using Vermilion Storm, USING MELEE IN THE FIRST PLACE, etc, etc, etc.

 

This would be a new level of immersion you could get in Warframe. Add Oculus Rift (or some similar device) and we have a peace of AWESOME!

[DarkBabylon]

This game doesn't compliment from a First Person view.

You'd need a lot of redesign of the camera and HUD to make it appropriate, and generally it is going to be slower than the game already is. Skyrim for instance, have you seen there is a lot of difference between first person animation and third person animation? This is because they needed a slower game, and because dual wielding has an animation where you spin, first person view will just give you nausea or vertigo if the camera wasn't fixed in place relative to the character during that move. In real life the vertigo doesn't happen because once you spin, you automatically rely on Proprioception. In a game you don't have that, so it will be easy to get lost.

 

Take an example in Mirror's Edge which uses quite softcore parkour, sometimes you need to plan ahead in order to move because how disoriented you can get when moving around, you get lost easily in a split second.

 

If we were to implement it in Warframe, melee wouldn't work in the way it is now, you have to re-code it and re-animate it. some move sets could make you lose direction because of how fast the game can get. Coptering would also not work.

 

You have to give up a lot from the game in order to implement first person in, not to mention an entire rework of the HUD and new models. If you notice the models of the hands are always becoming bigger than the grass is in Battlefield, and this is because the hands are in the HUD, so they cover what you see, and their proportions aren't translated to the world properly.

That's how they make a flawless animation of the limbs so it would feel real. That is also why it took so much time to get GTA V working on the new gen when older gen already had the game, although this one didn't cost anything other than the budget of Rockstar because the game was already slow enough.

 

Surely you can bring up CoD in the argument, it is fast paced yes, but it focuses a lot in small room fights rather than traversing across the room making flip flops in the air. Not to mention that in real life, the Tenno should need to be trained for these situations, they need to get used to the movement, so eventually even CoD's 7200 RPM spinning sniper no-scope shenanigans are things you get used to.

Edited April 13, 2015 by DarkBabylon

[Kasarian]

Take an example in Mirror's Edge which uses quite softcore parkour, sometimes you need to plan ahead in order to move because how disoriented you can get when moving around, you get lost easily in a split second.

 

Personally I loved how the camera went in ME, it wasn;t that hard for me to adjust with time to the camera, same could be said with implementing it in WF. Sure, coptering would be an issue (but not for people who don't use that, I mean I don't see THAT many people who copter) and fighting melee with some weapons/stances could be hard but it would a tradeoff for the View Mode you choose. (and with doing it like suggested earlier H to switch between modes/side it wouldn't be an issue to switch to and from them)

 

The argument about remodeling either HUD or Models. Remodeling HUD doesn't make any kind of sense to me in this situation unless you're speaking about some sort of new view for FPS, example:

And remodeling Models still doesn't make any sense as from the screenshots they look reasonable to me. Again sacrifice you make. And lastly, it still isn't as bad as this:

 

[DarkBabylon]

-snip-

 

The modelling I am speaking of and HUD design is the hands and weapon, they go into the HUD which is a layer above what you see what the camera sees.

I was more thinking of this:

when I saw spy's hand.

 

My argument is that it would take resources...A LOT of them, and a lot of give ups from the game we already have. And if not a whole lot use it, what was that for then?

Edited April 13, 2015 by DarkBabylon

[Kasarian]

My argument is that it would take resources...A LOT of them, and a lot of give ups from the game we already have. And if not a whole lot use it, what was that for then?

 

Considering what they work on lately OR should i say what they AREN'T working on I think it would be safe to assume we wouldn't loose much...

[Vaze]

My argument is that it would take resources...A LOT of them, and a lot of give ups from the game we already have. And if not a whole lot use it, what was that for then?

I wonder what your perception of "A LOT of resources" is, if a small taste of FPS only requires a re-positioned camera (change 3 numbers) and texture transparency around that position. If people like it, THEN and ONLY THEN there might be a possibility of a "proper" first person view, which is indeed a lot of work. Check some videos of Warframe FPS bug on youtube and you will see, that people liked it despite not seeing through the head.

You are either missing the whole point of this topic or you are a really expensive worker :)

[DSpite]

"There is no need for extensive coding, just a few "hide" commands for certain bodyparts and camera placement."

 

 

(A) First of all, do you know to specifically code for this game? If not, you can't assume it's going to be easy.

 

(B) Second of all, if you're implying that the code would be easy, it means first-person view would be exact. This means that you'll do everything realistically. 

 

Go ahead and make yourself nauseous by rolling, cart-wheeling, back-flipping, regular knockdown recovery, Handspring knockdown recovery, using Blade Storm, using Teleport, using Switch Teleport, using Radial Disarm, getting grappled by an Ancient or Scorpion, using Supra or Dual Cestra or any super high recoil firearm, using Blind Justice, using Cleaving Whirlwind, using Tempo Royale, using Vermilion Storm, USING MELEE IN THE FIRST PLACE, etc, etc, etc.

 

© Third, as stated above, DE said they weren't interested in adding first-person mode.

 

A: Do you? Asnwer: no. So why are you allowed to make assumptions and he's not? You cant just assume that it will be hard either.

 

B: Exact? Stop inventing things, he stated a change in view point, NOT a 1st person rewrite.

 

C: Great. Because I DON'T want a 1st person rewrite, or a 1st person option. I want the ability to use 3 basic sliders to reposition my default camera position so I can move it when my Plat purchased shoulder addons block my aiming reticle, or so that my Frame does not block 1/3 of my entire view all the time.

 

Since this "camera position" obviously changes constantly when you crouch, stand next to something, etc etc, it's not hard coded, and is subject to a bunch of formulas, and has a specific XYZ position in space that even forgets to "reset" at times.

 

All that is been asked here is that we want better camera controls. If we decide to put the camera position "to far forward" and suddenly - wonder of wonders - it "looks" like a 1st person view, what the hell is the problem?

[DSpite]

I wonder what your perception of "A LOT of resources" is, if a small taste of FPS only requires a re-positioned camera (change 3 numbers) and texture transparency around that position. If people like it, THEN and ONLY THEN there might be a possibility of a "proper" first person view, which is indeed a lot of work. Check some videos of Warframe FPS bug on youtube and you will see, that people liked it despite not seeing through the head.

You are either missing the whole point of this topic or you are a really expensive worker :)

 

A primary reason for DE to still say "no" is because they have tried pretty hard to stop us looking through walls - which if we managed to do would count as a bug - so allowing us camera controls might gives us X-Ray vision when against locked doors, or similar stuff.

 

I still want SOME camera controls as a lot of our cosmetics - especially shoulder stuff - manages to block so much of the damn view, including blocking our aiming reticules when we zoom.

Edited April 14, 2015 by DSpite

[DSpite]

This game doesn't compliment from a First Person view.

 

*sigh*

 

I have played ENTIRE missions with a screwed up view point in MULTIPLE situations.

 

In one instance the view point was locked at around waist height, like a perma crouch but worse. Only problem there was my Frame blocking most of view screen on the left, otherwise, it looked fine.

 

Another instance It was shifted enough at normal level to get head clipping, but not all the time, as long as I aimed down, I could see through, I could just not see a long way forward, and was "not quite" a camera position you would get in "1st person view".

 

No one needs DE to create new animations and code to do anything. Flick a button on, and the camera default, current view, shifts to center mass and just forward enough so that no body part other then our guns are visible.

 

No one cares if it looks weird, because it effects no one else. The simple ability NOT to have our Frame block an ENTIRE THIRD OF THE DAMN SCREEN EVERY SECOND OF EVERY MISSION .... *ahem* ... would be a godsend.

 

So, to everyone, no one is asking DE to go and code animation, and redo guns, or whatever the hell they think is needed because they think people are asking for a "game mode".

 

People were asking for a view point change, to make it APPEAR to be 1st person, ie an XYZ change in space.

 

I keep re-saying this because nobody here still seem to understand this.

Edited April 14, 2015 by DSpite

[Vaze]

I just experienced this wonderful "bug" again and decided to share some screenshots.

 

The camera was moving doing the same movements as always, no funny stuff, glitches or anything bad, except the head was still visible for obvious reasons.

 

Tried to shoot with Aksomati while siding, captured it's idle animation, tried to climb a box (and completely forgot to parkour), used Peacemaker and got up close to a Nova. See for yourselves: 

http://imgur.com/a/XTPWH#0

All these pictures are on the lowest graphics settings. Imagine them with buffed details. Even now the weapons have high quality textures on them.

 

I hope people will not try to be "smart" and write, that to implement FPS mode, DE would have to make new models, textures, animations(well maybe a few critical ones, no big deal), HUD(seriously?!) and tons of coding. Or my favorite one: stick the camera to the eyeballs :). Yes, some bright individuals think that is first person view in gaming.

 

As mentioned earlier, pure melee mode could be left for 3rd p.v., but quick-melee is just plain slashing left and right, so keep that in 1st p.v.

 

I see no harm in adding this feature to Simulacrum first for testing and general opinion survey.