New To The Game: What's The Matter With The Turbo Sliding?

[vaugahn]

 The whole gravity-defying parcour run the Excalibur is doing, that would be completely impossible under the laws of physics as we know them? 

 

For me it's not so much the move that's a problem, but that the animation doesn't make sense.

 

In the sentients trailer, all of those things Excalibur does look right, even if we know they're not physically possible. Sliding doesn't look right.

[Armage]

Seriously Armage, what is your problem? Have you seen Warframe's latest reveal video, "Rise of the Sentients"? The whole gravity-defying parcour run the Excalibur is doing, that would be completely impossible under the laws of physics as we know them? This is a GAME, for heaven's sake. A game about trans-(or super-)human warriors who do impossible things on a daily routine, as basically all video game heroes do.

 

I suggest that you either relax and change your attitude or find a game that suits your taste better, if you find the fast movement so intolerable.

 

No, didn't see it, I'll go take a look later but, you see, maybe you didn't read other posts, but the problem is not defying the laws of physics as we know them. It's just a mechanic that is dumb to perform (brainless spamming on a button which, by the way, is intended to make you slide and not to go crazy fast, is not fun) and looks dumb to see performed. Read more posts if you're interested.

[Kestral9999]

Maybe don't slide if the speed bothers you so damned much, OP.

[SquirmyBurrito]

A bunch of warframes sliding across the ground like dogs with worms is one of the funniest, dumbest gameplay mechanics in this game. I'd like to see sprinting actually be, you know, sprinting. As in moving faster than butt scratching. If only sprinting actually worked...

 

How is sprinting not sprinting? Please also explain how sprinting fails to work.

 

You see, maybe it's because I'm kinda new to the game and, not being so used to it, maybe that's why in my point of view the solution is quite simple and I believe it'll not upset so many people: in combat games of any genre and setting, sliding is intended to reduce your hitbox while still moving, and that is what it should do (EVEN for ultraskilled-space-alien ninjas). So make it go not faster nor slower than normal sprint, cover a fairly long distance (after all, they're ninjas) and give it a small cooldown. That's it.

After that, if people (or the game) should experience a lack of speed or dinamism, sure, they can make running go a bit faster than it is now to balance things out or... who knows, many other things that don't look so dumb as "ninjas scratching their butt on the ground like dogs with worms", as someone said.

 

How about no? We're space mercenaries that can stick to walls, stick weapons to our bodies, and swing never dulling swords through metal like we were tearing through wet tissue paper. Also, the maglev mod's name sorta implies there is some science (aka space magic) behind the brief increase in speed.

 

It isn't that simple. Sprint speed affects enemy accuracy. You can't just make us sprint faster to compensate for the removal of something you didn't like.

 

For me it's not so much the move that's a problem, but that the animation doesn't make sense.

 

In the sentients trailer, all of those things Excalibur does look right, even if we know they're not physically possible. Sliding doesn't look right.

 

What's wrong with the sliding animation?

 

No, didn't see it, I'll go take a look later but, you see, maybe you didn't read other posts, but the problem is not defying the laws of physics as we know them. It's just a mechanic that is dumb to perform (brainless spamming on a button which, by the way, is intended to make you slide and not to go crazy fast, is not fun) and looks dumb to see performed. Read more posts if you're interested.

 

That contradicts your earlier posts. In the earlier posts you specifically complained about it defying the laws of physics. How is the mechanic dumb? It is similar to various boost mechanics you see in other games. It isn't brainless spamming. If you just spam the crouch key while sprinting without timing it you won't go any faster. The button does make you slide, during the first part of it there is a brief acceleration that also conserves stamina. Its like you don't even know what you're talking about. I disagree with it looking dumb, but that's the wonder of opinions, everyone has one. Yours isn't fact. And as Kestrel said, if it bothers you don't do it. No one is forcing you to use it. How is this any worse than mirage being able to turbo roll?

Edited March 23, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[Lightsmith]

To OP:

 

It was initially a bug in their physics or something along those lines. But it became so popular that it is almost a defining feature of the game so DE dares not fix it.

[vaugahn]

What's wrong with the sliding animation?

 

Pretty sure I've explained this already.

 

Every other animation in the game conveys its action. The sprint animation leans you forward, the wallrun animation has you hug the wall at the top, even when you're turning during a sprint you lean into it.

 

The buttslide does not convey an increase in speed. That's not what it was meant to convey, the animation wasn't designed with a speed increase in mind. 

[Kestral9999]

No, didn't see it, I'll go take a look later but, you see, maybe you didn't read other posts, but the problem is not defying the laws of physics as we know them. It's just a mechanic that is dumb to perform (brainless spamming on a button which, by the way, is intended to make you slide and not to go crazy fast, is not fun) and looks dumb to see performed. Read more posts if you're interested.

This is a completely subjective standpoint, and I'm sure some anally retentive Tenno might agree with you, but that doesn't make it an objectively accurate complaint about the feature. "It looks dumb" can be an argument against practically ANYTHING. The button does exactly what is intended, you slide.

[Armage]

To OP:

 

It was initially a bug in their physics or something along those lines. But it became so popular that it is almost a defining feature of the game so DE dares not fix it.

 

I see that, still, they should've (had) the courage to fix bugs, cause even if people like them, they're still bugs and there's a reason they named it that way. People aren't always right. (and if you're wondering, that includes me, sure).

[Armage]

Pretty sure I've explained this already.

 

Every other animation in the game conveys its action. The sprint animation leans you forward, the wallrun animation has you hug the wall at the top, even when you're turning during a sprint you lean into it.

 

The buttslide does not convey an increase in speed. That's not what it was meant to convey, the animation wasn't designed with a speed increase in mind. 

you da man

[BlueSilkMetallic]

love sliding.

love copter.

 

both should stay :D

[Rayden_Tenno]

hi everyone. I know nothing about grinding, farming, op items, underpowered frames ecc, and I won't talk about that.

 

There's a thing about this game that really bewilders me, it puzzles me, it shocks me and there's many more words I'd like to use to describe the feeling but you get the idea, I hope.

I mean... why the hell sliding makes you go SO FREAKING FASTER? seriously, this is a huge gameplay bummer.

As if it wasn't annoingly weird enough, the same crouch button makes you go as faster EVEN IN THE AIR.

I mean... WHY? I've been playing videogames like this for 15 years and this really looks like a 0.0001323 alpha version bug.

I saw this when I first tried this game when it came on steam like one year and a half ago (maybe it was early access, don't remember) and i thought "well, it's a crappy glitch of the early days", this and other crappy things made me uninstall the game right away.

Yesterday I reinstalled it, steam made good advertise of the latest amazing content and I thought "let's take a look at how things are now with this game". I see many things have changed, the game looks and works better in many ways but you still have this STUPID MOVEMENT MECHANIC. just tell me how is this possible. How is that gamers might like that, because there's no universe in where a gamer might enjoy moving like you have to do in this game.

please change this stupid thing. make it so that when you slide you have to go through the entire slide (until you are nearly still) or something like that. It makes me feel really silly to have to continuosly lightly tap on this button to have the "turbo" mode when it should be intended to just slide. It REALLY is shockingly stupid. And moreover is weird and annoying to see people do that all the time, they go fast like nobody in a game like this is meant to go. Or at least not nearly as frequently.

please, make the slide just a slide and not the TURBO button. Is it too much to ask for?

Actually, I'm astonished that a post like this one is even needed. Just fix this already.

those highlighted parts are what gives me permission to take your post as whatever i want to. Its a stupid mechanic to u, not to us. We have it cuz we like it and cuz we want it, i enjoy it as almost all around here, i've been in gaming for 10 years but you're still not talking for me, so reserve your "im saying what others dont wanna say" opinion. Just dont you ever talk for me again or for gamers in general you're not actually somebody to do that. And the parts who asks to change it as if its broken just cuz u dont like it or it "breaks immersion" (tell that to any frame using their skills btw) Your opinion is not a fact, is not a general opinion and its at is core insulting. Stop acting like some type of game master who talks for everyone. stop talking like you know something of this universe or of gaming in general by saying that games must apply to real physics.  and stop whining for a change that nobody wants. Sheesh first time here and u are already whining.

[Gintoki-Zero]

coptering. try it.

[Armage]

 

That contradicts your earlier posts. In the earlier posts you specifically complained about it defying the laws of physics. How is the mechanic dumb? It is similar to various boost mechanics you see in other games. It isn't brainless spamming. If you just spam the crouch key while sprinting without timing it you won't go any faster. The button does make you slide, during the first part of it there is a brief acceleration that also conserves stamina. Its like you don't even know what you're talking about. I disagree with it looking dumb, but that's the wonder of opinions, everyone has one. Yours isn't fact. And as Kestrel said, if it bothers you don't do it. No one is forcing you to use it. How is this any worse than mirage being able to turbo roll?

 

maybe I find it so easy to perform that I can call it brainless spamming, and it's to people who find it the same way that I'm talking to. Sure, if one finds this mechanic hard to use at their advantage, this topic is not for them. To me, it's just brainless spamming. 

Did I complain about it defying the laws of physics? yeah, maybe, but sure it's not the main reason I don't like it. I believe me and other people in this thread explained the point fairly well.

Not saying that you HAVE to totally agree unless you're stupid. Every kind of people play every kind of game, it's impossible to have agreement among everyone of them. You're entitled to your opinion, it's fine.

I call stupid a dev, which is a professional, that looks at this thing and says "yeah, this is the slide, I like it, let's keep it that way". That is stupid of them and I think I've explained why I believe it is the case. Read the last post of vaugahn up here if you want a summary of it

Edited March 23, 2015 by Armage

[Armage]

stop whining for a change that nobody wants.

 

wrong.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Pretty sure I've explained this already.

 

Every other animation in the game conveys its action. The sprint animation leans you forward, the wallrun animation has you hug the wall at the top, even when you're turning during a sprint you lean into it.

 

The buttslide does not convey an increase in speed. That's not what it was meant to convey, the animation wasn't designed with a speed increase in mind. 

 

Your explanation didn't make any sense. Now does the slide not indicate that it is a slide?

 

The buttslide conveys its speed fairly easily via the increase in speed. As I explained to you in a post I think you didn't bother replying to (can't remember and I'm too lazy to check), there isn't much that could be done to it without messing up the end result of what sliding achieves, that being coming to a complete stop.

 

maybe I find it so easy to perform that I can call it brainless spamming, and it's to people who find it the same way that I'm talking to. Sure, if one finds this mechanic hard to use at their advantage, this topic it's not for him. To me, it's just brainless spamming. 

Did I complain about it defying the laws of physics? yeah, maybe, but sure it's not the main reason I don't like it. I believe me and other people in this thread explained the point fairly well.

Not saying that you HAVE to totally agree unless you're stupid. You're entitled to your opinion, it's fine.

 

Easy to execute doesn't make it brainless spamming. 

 

If it wasn't the main reason, why was that what you focused on? No not really. The main argument comes down to 'I think it looks stupid, remove it/change it'. That's your opinion.

Edited March 23, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[vaugahn]

Your explanation didn't make any sense. Now does the slide not indicate that it is a slide?

 

The buttslide conveys its speed fairly easily via the increase in speed. As I explained to you in a post I think you didn't bother replying to (can't remember and I'm too lazy to check), there isn't much that could be done to it without messing up the end result of what sliding achieves, that being coming to a complete stop.

 

I might not have seen that after I logged off last night. I'll go look.

[Armage]

Your explanation didn't make any sense. Now does the slide not indicate that it is a slide?

 

The buttslide conveys its speed fairly easily via the increase in speed. As I explained to you in a post I think you didn't bother replying to (can't remember and I'm too lazy to check), there isn't much that could be done to it without messing up the end result of what sliding achieves, that being coming to a complete stop.

 

The fact that changing a thing that's wrong (someone said that it was considered a bug by almost everyone in the early days -dunno if that's true but I can see it being true-) would result in challenging balance changes afterwards it's not a good reason to keep it broken as it is.

Again, the fact that you enjoy it and don't see it being broken/dumb ecc is still your opinion and I'm fine with that. I don't blame you, I blame devs (as I wrote in my last edited post which you may not have read)

Edited March 23, 2015 by Armage

[NobleHawk]

@SquirmyBurrito:

 

Read the whole statement. I explain why it doesn't work. If you need it reiterated, I said it doesn't work because in Warframe you move faster by butt scratching (sliding/coptering) than you do by actually sprinting. If you moved faster sprinting than you did with butt scratching, then it would actually be sprinting (you know, moving as fast as your legs can go), and since the only reason people use butt scratching is to speed run everything, people would just start using sprint instead and saving butt scratching for areas where it's useful (in combat).

[Lord-KEK]

hi everyone. I know nothing about grinding, farming, op items, underpowered frames ecc, and I won't talk about that.

 

There's a thing about this game that really bewilders me, it puzzles me, it shocks me and there's many more words I'd like to use to describe the feeling but you get the idea, I hope.

I mean... why the hell sliding makes you go SO FREAKING FASTER? seriously, this is a huge gameplay bummer.

As if it wasn't annoingly weird enough, the same crouch button makes you go as faster EVEN IN THE AIR.

I mean... WHY? I've been playing videogames like this for 15 years and this really looks like a 0.0001323 alpha version bug.

I saw this when I first tried this game when it came on steam like one year and a half ago (maybe it was early access, don't remember) and i thought "well, it's a crappy glitch of the early days", this and other crappy things made me uninstall the game right away.

Yesterday I reinstalled it, steam made good advertise of the latest amazing content and I thought "let's take a look at how things are now with this game". I see many things have changed, the game looks and works better in many ways but you still have this STUPID MOVEMENT MECHANIC. just tell me how is this possible. How is that gamers might like that, because there's no universe in where a gamer might enjoy moving like you have to do in this game.

please change this stupid thing. make it so that when you slide you have to go through the entire slide (until you are nearly still) or something like that. It makes me feel really silly to have to continuosly lightly tap on this button to have the "turbo" mode when it should be intended to just slide. It REALLY is shockingly stupid. And moreover is weird and annoying to see people do that all the time, they go fast like nobody in a game like this is meant to go. Or at least not nearly as frequently.

please, make the slide just a slide and not the TURBO button. Is it too much to ask for?

Actually, I'm astonished that a post like this one is even needed. Just fix this already.

#learn2copter

 

But I understand your point, this game´s movement system reminds me a lot a game called GUNZ (Google it if you haven't seen it)

In that game there was a big problem, at some point Korean players discovered a way to Jump+Dash+Attack+Parry  all in a single animation(This was a bug)

However this bug was never patched, skilled players adopted this "K-style" maneuver and that created a HUGE skill gap in between old and new players making the game horribly unbalanced.

 

I personaly never mastered the K-Style (it takes a lot of practice) and i feel the same happened with coptering in this game, however coptering is way more easy to do IMO, and does not break the game (prehaps the inmersion a little bit)

[SquirmyBurrito]

The fact that changing a thing that's wrong (someone said that it was considered a bug by almost everyone in the early days -dunno if that's true but I can see it being true-) would result in challenging balance changes afterwards it's not a good reason to keep it broken as it is.

Again, the fact that you enjoy it and don't see it being broken/dumb ecc is still your opinion and I'm fine with that. I don't blame you, I blame devs (as I wrote in my last edited post which you may not have read)

 

You misunderstood. It WAS a bug, but got adopted. It is now a feature. Just like coptering. So the reason not to scrap the feature is because the proposed compensation would disrupt balance.

 

Me not thinking it looks dumb IS my opinion. Me not seeing it as being broken is not. It is a feature, not a bug. Therefore it is not broken.

 

@SquirmyBurrito:

 

Read the whole statement. I explain why it doesn't work. If you need it reiterated, I said it doesn't work because in Warframe you move faster by butt scratching (sliding/coptering) than you do by actually sprinting. If you moved faster sprinting than you did with butt scratching, then it would actually be sprinting (you know, moving as fast as your legs can go), and since the only reason people use butt scratching is to speed run everything, people would just start using sprint instead and saving butt scratching for areas where it's useful (in combat).

 

That's false. If sprinting is moving as fast as your legs can go, what does coptering (a melee weapon/arm dependent maneuver) and sliding have to do with anything? Both maneuvers involve resting your legs. You don't move faster sliding than you do sprinting. That's just plain false. What makes you faster than sprinting is combining the brief acceleration sliding creates with the steady speed of sprinting. Just sliding will be slower. Coptering is something completely different and either requires precise control or longer stretches where you don't have to try and make tight turns. For situations like that sprint+sliding is better (unless you're good at coptering while coptering and using crouch to cut your forward momentum). Otherwise you'll end up stuck on map geometry. 

 

If sprinting was made faster enemies would have an even tougher time hitting us which would result in frames like Frost being effectively tankier than they already are, and frames like Loki being game breakingly fast (and that's without mentioning Volt and his speed ability).

[Armage]

You misunderstood. It WAS a bug, but got adopted. It is now a feature. Just like coptering. So the reason not to scrap the feature is because the proposed compensation would disrupt balance.

 

Me not thinking it looks dumb IS my opinion. Me not seeing it as being broken is not. It is a feature, not a bug. Therefore it is not broken.

 

That's where I wanted you to be, and that's where most people who are kinda in love with a game stand. That's why I said earlier, as a newcomer, I might be in a better place to judge. This is a very faulty argument: "me/you liking/not liking a mechanic is an opinion, devs adopting it and deciding it's a feature is a FACT, so it can't be anymore considered broken, it can't be wrong because devs are like always right". well, wrong. Devs (of every game) make mistakes ALL THE TIME. And this is a big one (my opinion). Their opinion might be different (don't know), but don't think they're perfect beings, they are people like me and you and they can be mistaken. They adopting a bug doesn't mean it'll make a good feature which can't be considered broken anymore.

 

moreover, I don't have a final proposed compensation, so there's nothing that would disrupt balance (yet). So why complain about it so early. And even then, I think I've explained why this isn't a good reason to keep a big fat bug alive like this one.

[Rayden_Tenno]

I think I've explained why this isn't a good reason to keep a big fat bug alive like this one.

you know how to read right? its not a bug, it was, now its a feature. get used to it.

[SquirmyBurrito]

That's where I wanted you to be, and that's where most people who are kinda in love with a game stand. That's why I said earlier, as a newcomer, I might be in a better place to judge. This is a very faulty argument: "me/you liking/not liking a mechanic is an opinion, devs adopting it and deciding it's a feature is a FACT, so it can't be anymore considered broken, it can't be wrong because devs are like always right". well, wrong. Devs (of every game) make mistakes ALL THE TIME. And this is a big one (my opinion). Their opinion might be different (don't know), but don't think they're perfect beings, they are people like me and you and they can be mistaken. They adopting a bug doesn't mean it'll make a good feature which can't be considered broken anymore.

 

moreover, I don't have a final proposed compensation, so there's nothing that would disrupt balance (yet). So why complain about it so early. And even then, I think I've explained why this isn't a good reason to keep a big fat bug alive like this one.

 

I haven't been in love with this game for quite some time now. There is nothing faulty about that argument. It isn't broken because it is working as intended. I'm not arguing right or wrong because that is pure opinion. I disagree with it being a problem. If you believe that I think DE is perfect you really are new. Considering how widely in favor the community is when it comes to this feature, I'd say DE made the right call. Same goes for coptering.

 

I don't know if you noticed, but you aren't the only person I've been responding to in this thread. It isn't a bug, work on your reading comprehension. It is a feature and has been one for a LONG time. And nah, you haven't actually given any good reasons for removing this feature from the game. Every reason you've given was pure opinion, no different than me saying DE should remove Rhino because I don't like him.

[Fifield]

-I'd rather they not scrap the 'turbo sliding' mechanic.
-This would completely upset the balance that currently exists with frame stats, it would make some frames absolutely ridiculously fast, and adding Volt's Speed into the mix would make most frames uncontrollable. It would also make us that much harder to kill as speed negatively affects enemy accuracy.
-Those maneuvers are used because they help decrease our overall stamina use.

1. It's unnecessary. The initial boost is unnoticeable, well within anime norms and would remain.
2. If that was a problem and I don't think it is, different frames could have different sprinting speeds. Giving Volt the option to not stack Power Strength is a small and needed buff. Also, you could always walk during the tricky-to-navigate bits.
3. Yes and that's the problem. The stamina mechanic as well as speed requirements encourage us to use front-flipping to move around the map. It's unintuitive and plain wrong from a physics or even anime perspective. However, it's also used to fly around the map, which is cool.
So I'd like to keep it in until an alternative is developed, just remove the near-compulsion to use it by changing the stamina mechanics. Edited March 23, 2015 by Fifield

[Armage]

I don't know if you noticed, but you aren't the only person I've been responding to in this thread. It isn't a bug, work on your reading comprehension. It is a feature and has been one for a LONG time. And nah, you haven't actually given any good reasons for removing this feature from the game. Every reason you've given was pure opinion, no different than me saying DE should remove Rhino because I don't like him.

 

I didn't mean YOU are in love with it, it was just to say that people often defend "their" game and their devs for that reason or similar ones.

 

Yes, opinions, which somebody else happens to share and if you mention that, I didn't see any good reason for this feature to stay other than "I'm used to it" or "then the game will need other balancement things to compensate that", which, again, is a poor reason for a thing this ugly (yes, opinion) to stay in a game.