Still Really &!$$ed About Synoid Nerf

[Bacl]

I don't know about that. It's described as a "defensive weapon" (or something like that) and it fits that purpose well not. It's not going to carry you alone due to ammo inefficiency, but if you got knocked down by a heavy and only had a fraction of a second to save yourself, there's no better weapon to have.

 

With that kind of idea in mind well people will always complaint about it since that way it will be doing more damage then a primary weapon.

 

Secondary need to be secondary in the sense they are smaller caliber so should do less damage per shot, however since it is a small caliber well it can shoot faster.

 

Marelok is the ''magnum'' of secondaries, it is meant to shoot the biggest caliber possible but with slow fire rate, thb i think they nailed it on this one.

 

Gammacor and SG are ''keep on target'' weapons, the beam does high damage but at slow pulses. Its a tool that got weaponised and since a laser is a continuous beam i dont know how you make the beam go faster. The beam should consume the energy at the same rate but SG has a greater output. Its not a lser machine gun.

 

The basic damage of the SG after its first buff was jjust too overkill, keep it exctly how is was after the first buff, give it punch through and reduce its damage. it will be viable but your primary weapon will out dps it while the gammacor is able to hold down it fire for longer period of time.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Bacl

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

With that kind of idea in mind well people will always complaint about it since that way it will be doing more damage then a primary weapon.

 

Secondary need to be secondary in the sense they are smaller caliber so should do less damage per shot, however since it is a small caliber well it can shoot faster.

 

Warframe has secondaries that do more burst DPS and less sustained DPS than primaries generally, which is fairly unusual and not a bad system. The Synoid fits this. Whether its current DPS is too high and ammo efficiency is too low is something that could be argued, but I don't think changing it all the way back and then lowering the damage will make it better.

 

Besides, people will always complain about it. If the damage were decreased people would complain again. DE has to consider complaints, but they can't be ruled by them.

[Bacl]

Warframe has secondaries that do more burst DPS and less sustained DPS than primaries generally, which is fairly unusual and not a bad system. The Synoid fits this. Whether its current DPS is too high and ammo efficiency is too low is something that could be argued, but I don't think changing it all the way back and then lowering the damage will make it better.

 

Besides, people will always complain about it. If the damage were decreased people would complain again. DE has to consider complaints, but they can't be ruled by them.

 

Some weapons are meant to dps with very fast fire rate, Vipers, Furis/ Dex furis, Detron, Gremlins, etc. We have enough in that category.

 

Gammacor and SG shouldnt be with them, at all. They are constant medium to high damage, slow firing rate lasers.

[manub]

I was a user too but to be fair SG was grossly overpowered

compare to other weapons: it had massive damage, pin point accuracy, silent, hitscan, very good fire rate & insane ammo economy

25 m range wasn t a big deal as this is more or less the standard firefight range in this game & running could quickly close gaps

it needed a nerf

 

that said, overnerf does exist. the ammo consumption is now way to huge for the weapon to be really useful for anything else than short-medium length missions.

the way DE did modify the weapon could have been a good one, but they pushed it way too far. the ammo efficiency now is way too low for the weapon to be really viable

[kubbi]

I agree. I also loved the synoid gammacor for its ammo efficiency. I wish they would've kept that and just nerfed the damage instead. That should've been good enough for the QQers.  Ammo consumption is a big issue with a lot of weapons that prevent me from using it.

[BlueThingy]

...If all you guys care about is ammo consumption isn't the regular gammacor fine then?

[Rakosta_Kai]

...If all you guys care about is ammo consumption isn't the regular gammacor fine then?

 

No...

 

They nerfed ammo consumption and damage.

 

They basically took the two things people complained loudest about and nerfed both through the floor.

 

Nerfing one of those would have sufficed, but they went overboard.

 

Put in simplest terms, DE doesn't know how to balance continuous fire beam weapons...

 

To date, they haven't released one that wasn't either over-powered or under-powered.

They should just nerf the Quanta (the last OP beam weapon) through the floorboards and stop designing such weapons altogether.

 

At least we could call these weapon types consistent then.

[(PSN)nysudyrgh]

Continued to jam Forma into it after hearing it'd get nerfed. It's the weapon of my Syndicate and I'll continue to use it. I often stop at 20mins anyway so it may not even be an issue if I aim for the face and don't spam it. I'll see when U16 hits the PSN.

[BlueThingy]

No...

 

They nerfed ammo consumption and damage.

 

They basically took the two things people complained loudest about and nerfed both through the floor.

 

Nerfing one of those would have sufficed, but they went overboard.

 

Put in simplest terms, DE doesn't know how to balance continuous fire beam weapons...

 

To date, they haven't released one that wasn't either over-powered or under-powered.

They should just nerf the Quanta (the last OP beam weapon) through the floorboards and stop designing such weapons altogether.

 

At least we could call these weapon types consistent then.

 

 

But they didn't nerf the damage, just the ammo consumption.  Which is what this thread was started about, OP says they don't care about damage just Ammo consumption.

 

So why not use the Gammacor?

[inappropriatename5818]

But they didn't nerf the damage, just the ammo consumption.  Which is what this thread was started about, OP says they don't care about damage just Ammo consumption.

 

So why not use the Gammacor?

 

 

They INDIRECTLY nerfed the damage. Before for max DPS you ran Gunslinger and Anemic Agility. It ate ~7 ammo per second with all firerate mods, now it eats 24 with just Lethal Torrent. This means that in order to get the "same damage" as before you will be using a build that drains 50 ammo per second.   

Technically yes, it has the same DPS, but due to the ammo economy you are now forced to not only drop firerate mods, but 1 of those slots has to be Ammo Mutation, which means you lose about 45% of the DPS you had pre nerf AND you still have ammo problems later on, while you had pretty much infinite ammo before.   

 

I'm not saying it got nerfed too hard, I still think it's one of the top 5 secondaries at least, but realistically damage was indeed nerfed indirectly, unless you want to burn all 200 ammo restores in 5 minutes and reload every 3 seconds.

[Rakosta_Kai]

But they didn't nerf the damage, just the ammo consumption.  Which is what this thread was started about, OP says they don't care about damage just Ammo consumption.

 

So why not use the Gammacor?

 

Why does anyone use a syndicate weapon?   The periodic AOE.

The Gammacor doesn't come with that.

 

They dramatically lowered the damage per round... 210 down to 28

They dramatically increased firing speed, thereby, increasing ammo consumption.... 2 rounds per second up to 15 rounds per second

 

To put it in simplistic terms, they turned the Synoid into magnetic damage status Vipers with a periodic aoe.

It's a bullet hose now... It's a pure burst weapon.

I.E. They completely changed the weapon's intended style of use.

 

The current setup rather steals the aoe from players as well because you auto switch to your primary once you run out of ammo.

I would have been happy if they had just mirrored the stats for the regular gammacor as it would leave me access to the aoe.

[THND3RZ]

I'm not a user of this wepaon but they should have just nerf the damage then.

[Bacl]

...If all you guys care about is ammo consumption isn't the regular gammacor fine then?

 

Yeah lets go back to the regular agammacor after gathering 100K rep, sarficed Loki P healmet, Glaive P blade, a golden potato, a formas and i dont remember how many materials and hundreds of thousands credits + the blue potato and the 4 formas on the actual weapon, to simply use the dollars store version.

 

Seems fair dont you think?

[Pizzarugi]

Yeah lets go back to the regular agammacor after gathering 100K rep, sarficed Loki P healmet, Glaive P blade, a golden potato, a formas and i dont remember how many materials and hundreds of thousands credits + the blue potato and the 4 formas on the actual weapon, to simply use the dollars store version.

 

Seems fair dont you think?

^ This

You spent an ungodly amount of time and resources leveling up cephalon suda, now the weapon she offers is the worst syndicate weapon available. Beam weapons like the synoid gammacor aren't supposed to be used as a burst weapon, meanwhile everyone who cried the loudest for a nerf will use that to excuse it for having the most god-awful ammo economy. I don't hear people using that same logic for the spectra and flux rifle, their terrible damage notwithstanding.

And besides, if I wanted another burst weapon, I would just go back to using the brakk since it blows synoid out of the water, all the while eating far less ammo in the process. As it stands, the brakk is now the best secondary in the game again.

Most synoid users like myself were expecting a nerf to hit, none of us are complaining about it. What we're upset about is that DE nerfed it on the extreme scale, giving it one of the most terrible ammo economies in the game and forcing users to have both a mutation mod and a scavenger aura to compensate for the immense ammo consumption. Scavenger auras are terrible for endgame content, because that means less damage for the team, because the player had to sacrifice corrosive projection just to use a single weapon. All DE needed to do was cut down its damage to make it on-par with every other weapon.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Pizzarugi

[Heidrek]

Reasons why Gamaccor sucks now
-eats ammo too quickly 
-magnetic sucks against corrupted bomdards (the most dangerous enemy)

-entropy proc sucks 

-needs to potato, forma, lots of credits, loki helmet(when it was rare), and glaive prime blade
-can't compete with other syndicate weapons sits at the bottom

-complete changed its style of high continuous dmg

Suda can shove her synoid gammacor right up her recycle bin and permanent delete the thing. 

 

What DE should have done

-Move it to the sniper pool 
-decrease dmg by 20-25%
-make entropy somewhat useful

[Heidrek]

^ or something along the lines of what I recommended, but hey there is more than one way to achieve balance.

[inappropriatename5818]

I do wish they reverted the proc nerf on it tho. It used to give back energy based on how much you had, not base, but they nerfed it because it was too good on Synoid.    

Now energy proc would be the only reason to take it over Vaykor or Brakk, so reverting that nerf would be really nice imo.

[BlueThingy]

Ok but, I was talking to the OP who said they just cared about using a continuous fire weapon.  If that's all the OP cared about, why NOT go back to the Gammacor?

[Heidrek]

Ok but, I was talking to the OP who said they just cared about using a continuous fire weapon.  If that's all the OP cared about, why NOT go back to the Gammacor?

I sacrificed a godload of credits, and a loki helmet. I AM SUPER PISSED. After the weapon got buffed to actually be good, I actually went and farmed for the rare loki helmet. Now I got a laser that can't even hold for 10 seconds? Suda can shove her synoid gammacor right up her recycle bin. I can expect DE is going to nerf and ignore all continuous fire weapons, besides the synapse and amprex. 

[FloraGreen]

Put in simplest terms, DE doesn't know how to balance continuous fire beam weapons...

To put it very simple DE is good if not amazing at:

- art

- map design

- animation

- gameplay mechanics

- making devstreams

 

what DE are really bad at:

- balance

- power creep

- keeping players trust

- running an MMO

 

They made an amazing design for synoid gammacor. Then they got many players to spend much time and a bit of money on it by buffing it. After that they nerfed it to hell, 'cause that is how you gain "player trust" and make people want to spend money on your stuff again.

Edited April 20, 2015 by FloraGreen

[vaugahn]

- keeping players trust

 

Only on the forums.

[-Suh-]

lets half the damage of boltor prime and double it's firerate so you need ammomutation on it, after all it is only a mastery rank 2 weapon.

and lets do the same to soma and soma prime just by a 1.5x change.

you'll get over it, cause you haven't really spent a potato and 6 forma on any of those. right?

 

Spoiler:

You can run a T4 survival 40min while using the Dex Furis with ammo mutation all the way without switching, which has something like 5s uptime if you empty the 3(.1) clips in a row.

Yet, you don't run out of ammo, and even with one less mod you're still doing fine in terms of damage (and without a proc).

 

Spoiler 2:

You can run a T4 survival 40min with more than half of the weapons available in the game if it's potatoed and formated.

 

Spoiler 3:

Since there's no new content beyond 20min, most people don't go above 20 or 40min (and a lot stop at 30-35).

People who will tell you otherwise either do it once every month for the lolz, or simply lie2brag.

 

With that 3 facts in mind: why do people keep complaining about a nerf, for a weapon which is still above average, when they don't even need an above average weapon anyway?

If anything, they should keep nerfing proc from (all) syndicates, it's just a lazy and uninteresting mechanic.

[FloraGreen]

Spoiler 3:

Since there's no new content beyond 20min, most people don't go above 20 or 40min (and a lot stop at 30-35).

People who will tell you otherwise either do it once every month for the lolz, or simply lie2brag.

 

With that 3 facts in mind: why do people keep complaining about a nerf, for a weapon which is still above average, when they don't even need an above average weapon anyway?

If anything, they should keep nerfing proc from (all) syndicates, it's just a lazy and uninteresting mechanic.

I always went 40 or above on my T4 survival runs. If i was on a team we always went 1hour+. My clan did it more or less every day for fun and R5 cores back when we could get T4 keys from syndicates. But that was beside the point anyway...

You point it out well: "don't even need an above average weapons" then let us agree on boltor p and soma p being above average. Let us bring them in line with the rest.

If you want to apply the rule of balance do it over the whole board.

[Bacl]

Spoiler:

You can run a T4 survival 40min while using the Dex Furis with ammo mutation all the way without switching, which has something like 5s uptime if you empty the 3(.1) clips in a row.

Yet, you don't run out of ammo, and even with one less mod you're still doing fine in terms of damage (and without a proc).

 

Spoiler 2:

You can run a T4 survival 40min with more than half of the weapons available in the game if it's potatoed and formated.

 

Spoiler 3:

Since there's no new content beyond 20min, most people don't go above 20 or 40min (and a lot stop at 30-35).

People who will tell you otherwise either do it once every month for the lolz, or simply lie2brag.

 

With that 3 facts in mind: why do people keep complaining about a nerf, for a weapon which is still above average, when they don't even need an above average weapon anyway?

If anything, they should keep nerfing proc from (all) syndicates, it's just a lazy and uninteresting mechanic.

 

Even with these points that doesnt justify the ressources and time invested to get the Synoid gammacor and if you spent plats ( like i did) getting the potato.

 

The ease of use is gone as well, the firing rate is insane, they cut down its ammo supply, tuned down the damage by a huge marging, hell the regular is arguably better now so why did we wasted so much efforts in getting the SG? This is unfair, 1 nerf to the damage would have been perfect but we got 3 severes nerfs at once instead. 

 

'' Yes it is still usable'', indeed it is but for few seconds if you dont run ammo mutation and even there you maybe pushed the starvation to 1 minute or 2.

 

Keep it the way it was after its buff, cut the damage output by 30% ( around 170 Magnetic damage istead of 250), done deal. It is still viable  and wont out dps the primary weapons but it is still usable and stong enough for those who wishes to use the Entropic effect ( like i do).

[-Suh-]

 

I always went 40 or above on my T4 survival runs. If i was on a team we always went 1hour+. My clan did it more or less every day for fun and R5 cores back when we could get T4 keys from syndicates. But that was beside the point anyway...

You point it out well: "don't even need an above average weapons" then let us agree on boltor p and soma p being above average. Let us bring them in line with the rest.

If you want to apply the rule of balance do it over the whole board.

 

The S.Gammacor is still above average, the Boltor and Soma are also (way) above average.

I couldn't care less about a nerf for them as I don't use them, so go for it.

 

Or, why don't we stop complaining about (deserved) nerf, and start asking some buff for subpar weapons?

 

In the end, some weapons are "above average" just because some others bring that average down.

So, ultimately, everything will be average, and we will be able to use every weapons for diversity sake.

 

Let's talk about the Sobek,the Cernos or the Lanka for example.

 

 

Even with these points that doesnt justify the ressources and time invested to get the Synoid gammacor and if you spent plats ( like i did) getting the potato.

 

You don't have to justify the ressources and time invested at all.

For one simple reason: if syndicates are way better than the other 200 weapons (you know, the weapons that require to invest credits in a blueprint then ressources to craft), then they become mandatory, and so everyone will use 6 weapons in the entire game. 

Ge-nius

 

The built-in proc already justify the cost more than enough, if it was me, all syndicate weapons should be on par with the rest of the arsenal stat-wise.

 

And know what? I have a potatoed Mag in my arsenal, and a potatoed Mag Prime, and a potatoed Burston, and a potatoed Burston Prime, and a potatoed AFuris, and a potatoed Dex Furis (okay this one was free). Welcome to Warframe.

Edited April 20, 2015 by -Suh-