De Should Buy The Rights To Grinder App And Rename Wf

[vaugahn]

The way I see it, white knight are one of the biggest problems Warframe has.

 

People who call people white knights are the biggest problem Warframe has.

[Sairus002]

You made it a grind with your mentality. "Must have everything now, or i am not a cool kid anymore". You created your own grind, RNG is there just for trolling purposes.

 

 

There is always an option of buying PA, or investing some Platinum in new prime parts.

 

Thanks for putting words into our mouths... or rather, heads. I don't play this game to be the "cool kid" What do you expect me to do? Run 50+ T1 captures for "fun" that offer no challenge or variety of any sort? The fun in this game, at least for me, and I'd wager many others, is in collecting and appealing to completionism mentality. RNG isn't there for "trolling purposes" It's there to enforce grind wall. It's there to mitigate progress towards completion, to get people to use the "other options" that you have listed. Thank you for proving my point.

 

 

People who call people white knights are the biggest problem Warframe has.

 

Ignoring the valid message of his entire post, just to say that. What a perfect example.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Sairus002

[TheAmishCurse]

You made it a grind with your mentality. "Must have everything now, or i am not a cool kid anymore". You created your own grind, RNG is there just for trolling purposes.

 

 

There is always an option of buying PA, or investing some Platinum in new prime parts.

Yeah, so I'm assuming you didn't understand this rant fully. I'm saying that it is obvious they are giving you 2 options. Grind away like there is no tomorrow, or buy it with money. I feel as though you missed the part where I called it "Pay-to-enjoy" either make it a chore or spend hard earned money on it. As for the "I have to have it now or I'm not cool" response, its actually more, I have to have it or I have nothing to have. I should take a break from the game is what needs to happen. But the fact is that they are compensating for long standing veterans like Sarius and I and just making these borderline unacceptable odds to hold us off from ceasing to play in between updates. They are pushing less content with more time. Again, I understand why they are doing this, I just hate the lack of transparency when they do it.

 

 

People who call people white knights are the biggest problem Warframe has.

Only a White Knight would actually think that's the biggest problem

[TheErebus.]

Ignoring the valid message of his entire post, just to say that. What a perfect example.

Valid? You call that user's post basically blaming everyone who supported DE's actions for whatever reason as being valid. 

 

Only a White Knight would actually think that's the biggest problem

You know I agree with you and all, but you gotta stop this white knight BS. It just causes more separation between the community and just pins the blame on one group of people and is just immature. If you drop the white knight talk, then I imagine this thread going in better ways. But right now, it's just getting more and more toxic.

Edited March 30, 2015 by ScrublordPrime

[Sairus002]

Valid? You call that user's post basically blaming everyone who supported DE's actions for whatever reason as being valid.

 

He's talking about the people who blindly support every decision they make. There's plenty I support, and plenty that I don't. Let me take some excerpts from his post to clarify.

 

"stfu, everything is fine, best update ever thank you DE". No matter how terrible it was, they're always defending DE.

 

Example? People raging because of unneeded nerfs U16 brought, there was a bunch of "good, rep farming will be over", "shut up crybabies" responses. Not bringing up valid points, full of butthurt instead.

 

Some people would get hyped even if someone at DE posted a picture of dump they took earlier that day.

 

Supporting a decision or disagreeing with criticism doesn't make you a fanboy, or "white knight". Blindly defending DE for everything and shutting down ALL criticism and complaints (often with comments like the example "shut up crybabies") are the people he's referring to. It is a problem, and his post about it is valid.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Sairus002

[vaugahn]

Ignoring the valid message of his entire post, just to say that. What a perfect example.

 

There was no valid message to that post.

 

And this is addressed at the other guy too: attitudes like that are toxic. They're not helpful anywhere, and certainly not in a feedback forum. They feed into the delusion that hate is automatically a valid response, and are used to shut down anyone who disagrees with the one doing the name calling. If you honestly think that people only start calling each other white knights when someone is actually blindly defending, you clearly don't spend much time around here.

 

Take that stuff elsewhere. 

[Sairus002]

There was no valid message to that post.

 

And this is addressed at the other guy too: attitudes like that are toxic. They're not helpful anywhere, and certainly not in a feedback forum. They feed into the delusion that hate is automatically a valid response, and are used to shut down anyone who disagrees with the one doing the name calling. If you honestly think that people only start calling each other white knights when someone is actually blindly defending, you clearly don't spend much time around here.

 

Take that stuff elsewhere. 

If you're under the assumption that I'm defending OP's rampant use of the term in this thread, I'm not. The guy I quoted was giving explicit examples of the people he was referring to as "white knights" I don't care what he called them.

 

His message was about how there are people who blindly defend DE, and attack and attempt to discredit all criticism, often with nothing but ad hominems. These people exist, and they are a problem. I would suggest trying to read and understand his post before discrediting it entirely because of the use of one phrase.

 

Whether or not I agree with people calling these overzealous members derogatory names, is not in question. (I don't)

[RFaul]

LOL I googled "Grinder App" and it only returned Grindr app ROFLMAO. That App...

[vaugahn]

If you're under the assumption that I'm defending OP's rampant use of the term in this thread, I'm not. The guy I quoted was giving explicit examples of the people he was referring to as "white knights" I don't care what he called them.

 

His message was about how there are people who blindly defend DE, and attack and attempt to discredit all criticism, often with nothing but ad hominems. These people exist, and they are a problem. I would suggest trying to read and understand his post before discrediting it entirely because of the use of one phrase.

 

Whether or not I agree with people calling these overzealous members derogatory names, is not in question. (I don't)

 

That post made out like there were unequivocal bad and good changes, and completely glossed over the fact that people have lots of different opinions about things. And because of that attitude, here's how white knight ends up getting used in practice:

 

"DE really messed this one up."

 

"Actually, I think they did a good job."

 

"White knight! Get out!"

 

That's how it's used here. Instead of discussing why the people might disagree, the conversation just devolves into name calling. And let's not forget the people who blindly attack, which is much more prevalent than blind defense.

[Psychus]

Lol White Knights need not comment buddy. I was simply stating I am familiar with WF's Devs. And I wouldn't call this a hate thread as much a vent thread. I'm not saying the game sucks, I'm simply stating that they are becoming more and more money centered rather than player centered. But again, I understand if your head to lodged to far to see that.

Vay Hek.

[Spindle99]

Anyone remember during one of the early devstreams when Scott said "We don't want to create grind", and we all were like "Oh hell yeah they are going to fix me having to run a mission 10 times for a single prime part!"?

And he were are, over a year later, and has DE even remotely made this issue better?

For you ACTUAL players who know how to criticize a game without blatantly hating on it...no. A fellow clan member and I are both high MR (him 18 me 14) so it goes without saying that we spend our time acquiring the new prime parts and frames to keep busy in this game. Well we both decided to pool all of our T1 Capture keys to try and snag the Odonata Prime Blueprint. And 54, yes 54, keys later we STILL DON'T have that piece. I can understand that we might just be a victim of a cruel RNG, which is partially related to my username. But surely I'm not a statistical anomaly where I beat a 1/10 odds 5 times. The even more infuriating part is that I'm not alone. I know there are other tenno out there who have ran just as many, if not more, T1 Captures than I and have yielded the same results. And people who manage it in the 1st try are the one in a million. So my question is, why hasn't DE even tried to make this better.

Its simple, money, they are pushing prime access more and more. Ever since Mag Prime, when anyone could get her in a day of light farming, their Prime Access sales went down and they lost a lot of money. So progressively its been getting worse and worse each update. But I give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they are just incompetent and despite being a relatively large company, they can't pool their brain power together and figure out that maybe, if I get a T4 Survival, and run it, that I shouldn't have to have 6 Bo Prime Ornaments (yes that happened) in a 40 minute run, when that super common part is in about 10 possible reward locations. But the Volt Prime piece is not. I understand Boobie Prizes, but at what point is it too useless. Ran a extremely hard to get T3 Survival today, 35 minute reward? 3 Uncommon 5 fusion cores. That is absurd and very insulting. It insults me as a consumer that they are willing to hypothetically spit in my face for no reason other than "GIVE ME MORE OF YOUR MONEY!" It would be so much easier if they just made it where after a reward is given, it is not possible to repeat the reward that run. So no 2 Volt BP's (like that'd ever happen) and no 6 Bo Ornaments.

They are acting like politicians and feeding us a line of crap and distracting us. I'd dare say 75% of this fan base are veterans, and if you ask any of them why they still play this game (white knights aside) most will say something like "Oh I've spent too much money on this game to just stop" or "I've sunk 500+ hours in this, no way I can just walk away" They understand we are captives to our investment, so they are milking us for more and more until we keel over. And they are making the game suffer as a whole with obvious power creep, complete disregard for new players (tutorial so doesn't count) with them essentially letting us veterans teach them. I see so many new players go into region chat and ask for help, and either be ignored to ripped apart by bitter veterans who just want the game to be what it could be and not this Pay-to-enjoy game. I use that term because its what it is, you have to treat this game like a chore if you want to play it at any level above casual, and that is wrong. But like every other veteran in this game, I'm too far along this road financially to just quit. So I have my mortar and pestle in hand and will continue to grind out this poorly guided cash sucking machine.

TLDR: DE is shafting us on grind to make money, and are dodging questions like a politician and are making us captives of our own investments

You cant make an online game that is long term without rng and grind.

Grind is why youre still here.

[Alphafox]

You cant make an online game that is long term without rng and grind.

Grind is why youre still here.

If your game can be resumed in a single word:''grind'' then something is wrong for sure. You can't make a online game without some kind of grind, but you can surely make it seem fun and rewarding instead of feel like a small candy after a session of torture.

Grinding can only keep players in the game for so long before they get tired of that crap.

[Lordmotav]

People complain about the grind and yet youre still playing the game.

 

Must be because it's like, fun to play or something. (MINDFREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK)

 

If you got everything and anything you wanted on your first run then youd still have to grind out exp for mastery anyways. You couldnt escape the grind without stopping playing entirely. But as a F2P game your existence was MP content for someone else at one point in time anyways, and theyve probs bought platinum just like you did. The cycle moves on whether or not you leave.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Lordmotav

[Sairus002]

That post made out like there were unequivocal bad and good changes, and completely glossed over the fact that people have lots of different opinions about things. And because of that attitude, here's how white knight ends up getting used in practice:

 

"DE really messed this one up."

 

"Actually, I think they did a good job."

 

"White knight! Get out!"

 

That's how it's used here. Instead of discussing why the people might disagree, the conversation just devolves into name calling. And let's not forget the people who blindly attack, which is much more prevalent than blind defense.

He was not making it out to sound that way.

 

"stfu, everything is fine, best update ever thank you DE"

""shut up crybabies" responses. Not bringing up valid points, full of butthurt instead."

 

We've all seen these people that these quotes specifically reference. If you are reading it as him attacking anyone who disagrees with criticism, then that's your own predisposition bias, as evidenced by your post after his

 

People who call people white knights are the biggest problem Warframe has.

 

Nice strawman, which by the way, has been every single post you've made on this thread, since the very first. Ignoring the overall point of the post, to take one trivial irrelevancy out of it and criticize it. While we're on that subject, let's break that down, because I'm getting tired of it.

 

 

There seems to be a misconception around here that hate automatically equals valid criticism. 

 

And then we go around and call everyone a white knight. Good job.

 

Yes, OP said some questionable things. Clearly he was upset by his bad luck in the game. Reasonable people would read behind that veil of frustrated vitriol and see his actual criticisms. You ignore them entirely to make that post, completely irrelevant to whether or not you agree or disagree.

 

 

The Planetside 2 comparison is accurate but doesn't really apply here. They've yet to make any decisions on that magnitude of stupid, despite community whining about nerfs and what not.

 

You either didn't read my entire post, or ignored everything but the first paragraph. Instead of adding to the discussion you criticize the relevancy of my example.

 

 

Then you go and post the aforementioned reply to Siekier

 

Then this

There was no valid message to that post.

 

And this is addressed at the other guy too: attitudes like that are toxic. They're not helpful anywhere, and certainly not in a feedback forum. They feed into the delusion that hate is automatically a valid response, and are used to shut down anyone who disagrees with the one doing the name calling. If you honestly think that people only start calling each other white knights when someone is actually blindly defending, you clearly don't spend much time around here.

 

Take that stuff elsewhere. 

 

Same exact story. Rather than realizing the post is about people blindly defending DE's decisions, you cling to the fact that he used the phrase that must not be said, and are in an entirely different discussion altogether.

 

Now can we please stop derailing this thread?

Edited March 30, 2015 by Sairus002

[vaugahn]

We've all seen these people that these quotes specifically reference. If you are reading it as him attacking anyone who disagrees with criticism, then that's your own predisposition bias, as evidenced by your post after his

 

Here's what OP said:

 

"and if you ask any of them why they still play this game (white knights aside)"

 

Either you agree with OP, or you are a white knight. He left no room for discussion. Do you not see the problem with that?

[Sairus002]

Here's what OP said:

 

"and if you ask any of them why they still play this game (white knights aside)"

 

Either you agree with OP, or you are a white knight. He left no room for discussion. Do you not see the problem with that?

 

Let me repeat myself. Once again.

 

"Yes, OP said some questionable things. Clearly he was upset by his bad luck in the game. Reasonable people would read behind that veil of frustrated vitriol and see his actual criticisms."

 

If you actually read the entirety of my post before replying, you'd have seen that.

 

Also, once again, I AM NOT DEFENDING OP'S USE OF THE TERM, I am defending Siekier's post, which was discredited, and misinterpreted simply for having that term in it.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Sairus002

[Alphafox]

Also, once again, I AM NOT DEFENDING OP'S USE OF THE TERM, I am defending Siekier's post, which was discredited, and misinterpreted simply for having that term in it.

Just quoting again to make sure people see it

[vaugahn]

Also, once again, I AM NOT DEFENDING OP'S USE OF THE TERM, I am defending Siekier's post, which was discredited, and misinterpreted simply for having that term in it.

 

Sieker's post was just as bad.

 

No issue is black and white. Look at his post. You think U16 did good things? You're now a white knight, by his definition. If you're simply saying irrational people are bad, you didn't even need a post for that. Anyone with brains in their head can filter out or shoot down the obviously irrational posters. Instead, he made it into an even divide: anyone who supports DE when someone else doesn't is a white knight.

[Sairus002]

Sieker's post was just as bad.

 

No issue is black and white. Look at his post. You think U16 did good things? You're now a white knight, by his definition. If you're simply saying irrational people are bad, you didn't even need a post for that. Anyone with brains in their head can filter out or shoot down the obviously irrational posters. Instead, he made it into an even divide: anyone who supports DE when someone else doesn't is a white knight.

 

Where in his post did he ever say that?

 

He didn't.

 

 

Example? People raging because of unneeded nerfs U16 brought, there was a bunch of "good, rep farming will be over", "shut up crybabies" responses. Not bringing up valid points, full of butthurt instead.

 

HE USED ONE THING IN U16, AS AN EXAMPLE OF A TYPICAL RESPONSE TO CRITICISM FROM THE ONE PARTICULAR VARIETY OF PEOPLE HE WAS TRYING TO DESCRIBE

 

You get from that

 

 

...You think U16 did good things? You're now a white knight, by his definition. ...anyone who supports DE when someone else doesn't is a white knight.

 

Once again, predisposition bias. You saw the phrase, you falsely associate it with an attack. In reference to a post you previously made, no I don't spend a ton of time on this forum, which was how I was able to read Siekier's post objectively, and take from it it's intended, and rather obvious, meaning.

[TheAmishCurse]

Here's what OP said:

"and if you ask any of them why they still play this game (white knights aside)"

Either you agree with OP, or you are a white knight. He left no room for discussion. Do you not see the problem with that?

Allow me to clarify, of the veterans who play this game and seem distraught over the grind. Allow me to clear this up. I have already apologized for my angry rant. As for the use of the term, yes I used it too much and apparently scared people off from seeing the other points of my argument.

[TheAmishCurse]

You cant make an online game that is long term without rng and grind.

Grind is why youre still here.

Okay, I never said grind altogether should be eliminated. but rather be more diverse and less excessive. de seems to think that it is the only way to keep veterans still playing. but it is slowly driving them away. my example being the recent tactical alert that forced you to use only melee. it was fun and hard and took skill and numerous attempts for many people. had they use that style of challenge rather than the challenge of patience forcing people to run a mission 55 times it would make the game feel more like a challenge rather than a chore