Please Remove The New Version Of Wave Dashing: Infinite Melee Slide Attack

[shukudai]

I understand.  Similarly, I also take issue with the way people generally offer suggestions without thinking them through (much like the way DE has been kneejerking their "fixes"), hence my jaded, caustic approach.  My apologies if I've caused offense.

 

Look, I'll lay it on the table for you.  You've responded reasonably to my post and I appreciate it, so I'll outline it once again.

 

The issue people are taking with knifeskating:

- Unnaturally fast

- Infinitely repeatable

- Looks stupid

- Promotes rushing

- Jealousy/Disdain (Unidentified Flying Banshee shouldn't be faster than my Loki)

- Macros (sigh.)

 

People enjoy it because:

- Unnaturally fast

- Infinitely repeatable

- Looks badass

- Helps them rush

- Superiority/Ego (look how fast I can go)

 

Discourse:

- Macros for this sort of thing is stupid.  I've never been this crass about it before but being polite doesn't seem to be getting anywhere, blaming the proliferation of mobility techs on macros is plainly ignorant and a cop-out excuse DE used upon the removal of wavedashing.

 

- I think we can both agree that removing its infinitely repeatable nature wouldn't kill anyone.  I've always said, true mobility players always use it as buffers between wallruns/wall launches anyway, which give a far bigger boost.

 

- If it looks stupid, embracing it as a proper move and animating it properly would solve it.  Saying it looks stupid doesn't strike me as a reason to eliminate the technique.

 

- Rushing.  Rushing is the problem, knifeskating is not the problem.  If you want to eliminate rushing, or in DE's words "just want to slow players down a bit", go get rid of Rush mods while you're at it.  By removing the multiplicative speed modifier, you'll achieve the effect of slowing the entire player base down, while conveniently narrowing the speed gap between slow and fast warframes.

 

- Unnaturally fast, this only occurs with high attack speed weapons.  To me, there are many ways to skin this cat to make the game fundamentally more interesting.  For example, I'm a huge fan of the Fragor (you'll notice early on in my videos I have it equipped all the time, because it's flipping awesome) but I've had to make a choice to sacrifice it in favour of mobility.  I think this is a good design, deciding between sidegrades depending on your play style.  So we can exacerbate the sacrifice and make weapons that offer more mobility for less damage, for example.  Im sure you can imagine there's endless ways to build on this structure of an idea to create permutations of gameplay that differ yet retain balance.

 

I'll leave it at that for now.  Thankyou again for your reasoned reply hiryu.

 

Inb4 GD replies of "ok so I didn't read the whole thread but here's what iiii thinkkkk..." ;-)

[Promite]

In other games:

 

"Players found this new and exciting way of playing the game (Bunny-hopping, rocket jumping, skiing, etc.), we should incorporate it into the game proper and let them structure the metagame to accommodate it."

 

In Warframe:

 

"Players found this new exciting way of playing the game, NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF IT'S FUN WE GOTTA NERF THAT S#&$"

 

Not that it's new to DE. Their response in any sort of situation is that, when something is powerful, don't buff the things that it outclasses, just nerf it into the ground and make it useless.

[Luxangel7]

In other games:

 

"Players found this new and exciting way of playing the game (Bunny-hopping, rocket jumping, skiing, etc.), we should incorporate it into the game proper and let them structure the metagame to accommodate it."

 

In Warframe:

 

"Players found this new exciting way of playing the game, NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF IT'S FUN WE GOTTA NERF THAT S#&$"

 

Not that it's new to DE. Their response in any sort of situation is that, when something is powerful, don't buff the things that it outclasses, just nerf it into the ground and make it useless.

 

The spirit of the this thread I created wasn't to say "nerf everything to Oblivion". However, a solution needs to be found, and at the moment, it woud seem that the suggested route of "buff everything else" (which I usually am a big fan of) might not be feasible. Unless you want speed mods to make running into some sort of ridiculous flash like experience.

 

However at the end of the day, all we can do is offer our polite suggestions to the dev team, have faith that they will do what's best for their game, and if we approve or not of the changes, let them know.

[Blatantfool]

 At this point I'm actually seriously in favor as smoothing the whole thing out and including it as a legitimate technique. Both Knifeskating AND the Lunging you can preform with the Zorens.

 

 Just like Skiing went from a bug in Tribes to being integral to why it was so cool, things like this don't have to be bad for the game, grab the bull by the horns and make it something the game can benefit from.

 

 I played for a long time never using this sort of thing to get around - however in recent weeks I've decided to start using it all over, along with more wallrunning and such. Just making the most out of all the tools available. Knifeskating would need some work - but I feel like it could and should become a normal part of the players toolkit.

 

 The question I ask would only be: How best to do it?

[Promite]

 snip

 

DE... tweaking something? You mean like, giving it a new function and rebalancing it? You are really overestimating them here. You and I both know that DE only has two settings. Buff and nerf.

[Blatantfool]

DE... tweaking something? You mean like, giving it a new function and rebalancing it? You are really overestimating them here. You and I both know that DE only has two settings. Buff and nerf.

 

 Being overly pessimistic is exactly as stupid as being overly optimistic. Makes us both idiots. Least the bases are covered.

[shukudai]

Well, DE's given us an abundance of reasons to vindicate Promite's opinion, but it IS completely non-constructive to be pessimistic.  Might save us from being disappointed, but it certainly won't lead to the improvement and longevity of the game, nor effect a positive shift in the way DE implements gameplay balancing decisions.

 

Guess I'm playing the middle-ground between the two bases. =]

[Thypari2013]

Remove all movement modules like stamina and rush.

 

or

 

Remove slideskating.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Your choice.

[holdenmcclure]

I like sliding around, roll flipping into midair slide kick for boosted speed, flinging off wallrun jumps for absurd momentum, equipping fast attacking melee weapons and slide attacking in midair for speed boosts. Sure, it's completely unrealistic and goofy looking, but it's damn fun even if it's unintended, and it doesn't really have any significant impact on game balance.

[Cinderain]

I've followed your posts through many threads FatalX7, and know well your opinions and inability to be swayed from them.  Nothing I suggest will appease you

 

Wat

 

No, what? What's this and why should I take it seriously?

 

You imply that someone's idea is poop and tell them to think. So. Then you think. Do something more. Improve the idea. State your own.

 

It's principles, not about my opinion of other opinions.

Edited June 1, 2013 by FatalX7

[Worira]

Wat

 

No, what? What's this and why should I take it seriously?

 

You imply that someone's idea is poop and tell them to think. So. Then you think. Do something more. Improve the idea. State your own.

 

It's principles, not about my opinion of other opinions.

 

No, you don't get it.

 

You're wrong because I watch you when you sleep.

[Mediave]

Yeah lets remove all the cool stuff and just "sprint"...

 

Why cant you let others have fun? If you want to walk around slowly and open every locker play solo.

 

Defending exploits as 'cool stuff'?  Hmmm...

[Cinderain]

No, you don't get it.

 

You're wrong because I watch you when you sleep.

 

Don't lie to me.

 

I never sleep.

[holdenmcclure]

Don't lie to me.

 

I never sleep.

Or think

[GrayFox]

My share on the topic:

 

I've seen this in action and I've done it as well, yes as many have attested, it doesn't need a macro. While believe me or not, I've grown tired of it after a few days of testing how it affects my whole gaming experience playing Warframe, I do get the point others have been pointing out, as well as the OP from their perspective. 

 

From what I'm getting, these are the things I understood:

 

- Irritating to some

-"game-breaking" to a certain degree

-logically disturbing (momentum, etc etc)

 

- navigation-wise, it speeds up the process of going through a path (boring as it may)

- provides that extra distance when jumping from one platform to another

- a show of "skill" (of sorts)

 

I for one have integrated this said mechanic in my gameplay, but chose not to look like a top (as many mentioned), indeed it has uses many oversee.

 

An example of which is with the Kiliken defense map where 2 major areas (left and right as you may) are placed with a good distance between the other. Typically (and from what I'm seeing from public games) it's an unspoken playstyle during these defense runs to get the mats, mods are ammo pickups during the wave intervals, even with this said mechanic during the later levels, eventually the waves will start with you not being able to finish the ammo/mod/energy/mat pick up as the placement of these are in the mercy of the situation (though it's in a general area, things may get flung out etc etc). 

 

Another, is as I mentioned, personally I grew a distaste for it, with my playstyle and my chosen "main" warframe, this mechanic proves to be useful in battle (specially with infested) as I can go in or out (not indefinitely as there are runners) in a mob, shoot if necessary or see how things play out (if a teammate uses an aoe, I pick off other targets of importance). I use this with ether swords (as we all know, one of the best melee weapons as of date with it's multi-hit, innate armor pierce and slash bonus for infested) for offensive purposes (defensive in a sense of the best defense is offense)

 

While many may see my reply as irrelevant, I humbly ask the community that pushes for the removal of such mechanic:

 

With consideration of what I've shared, how do you see Warframe, as a whole, play out, the community's feedback if said mechanic was removed?

 

Because there's a lot of things DE can do about it (ex is the cooldown timer on the momentary slide boost, which btw, lag blasts off), and I for one, am afraid of the consequences that it would bring to the community as a whole. While it poses as an annoyance and yes I do agree, it's visually not pleasing. There is, however, the factor of personal preference (yeap, been mentioning this from past replies really, sorry :P):

 

While one side wants to play with his/her warframe within the boundaries of what they perceive is the game mechanic (mod-wise), the other wants to play the other way around. Both have their pro's and con's mind you, but anyone can agree, both sides exert effort to a certain extent.

 

 

 

 

TL:DR

 

If mobility is the issue (having warframes slide attack across the map) with this and gets removed, I know of a way that's the next best thing to this, not visually disturbing, but it is the next best thing (no slide attack, just an experiment I've done with chaining and observing the game's mechanics, the "hang time" (if you may) during certain jumps), will that next best thing be clamored for removal as well? Then I fear, in every removal/nerf/etc that will be done to warframe, any/every player will find a way of being mobile (to what they perceive of being a "ninja" or playing Warframe in general is) that doesn't bind them to mod set ups (as again, personal preference, a player may want to just sprint and slide for recovery rinse repeat, one may want to be busy with his/her keyboard)

 

sprint slide sommersault aim dragon kick/flying kick timed sommersault aim dragon kick/flying kick rinse repeat <-this is great for covering those long distances as well and is easier to redirect with the aim and kick part.

[HellishWind]

imo u guys should stop whining  about it  and download a macro program or buy a fking better keyboard then the 10 dollar one ure using right now ....

 

or just get fast finger skills then too whine about somebody passing u by in speed .....

[Mediave]

imo u guys should stop whining  about it  and download a macro program or buy a fking better keyboard then the 10 dollar one ure using right now ....

 

or just get fast finger skills then too whine about somebody passing u by in speed .....

 

You're complaining about people, who want others to stop exploiting?  And instead of fixing it, you're telling those people to just use said exploits themselves?

Edited June 1, 2013 by Mediave

[holdenmcclure]

"Exploit" seems like a harsh word for something like moving around quickly. When I think exploit I usually think something like glitching Void key to not be consumed or making using game hacks. This is just sliding and bouncing around like a jolly acrobat, and personally I've grown to love it. Also don't act like Stamina wouldn't be a useless mechanic either way.

Edited June 1, 2013 by holdenmcclure

[Worira]

You're complaining about people, who want others to stop exploiting?  And instead of fixing it, you're telling those people to just use said exploits themselves?

 

"guys people are skiing in tribes, ban plz"

[holdenmcclure]

"guys people are skiing in tribes, ban plz"

[holdenmcclure]

I simply cannot relate to people who don't strive for fast. It is the blood in my veins, it is a lifestyle. Going fast.

Edited June 1, 2013 by holdenmcclure

[Mediave]

"guys people are skiing in tribes, ban plz"

 

This isn't Tribes, so that argument won't hold, and I didn't ask for people to be banned, either, thanks.

 

"Exploit" seems like a harsh word for something like moving around quickly. When I think exploit I usually think something like glitching Void key to not be consumed or making using game hacks. This is just sliding and bouncing around like a jolly acrobat, and personally I've grown to love it. Also don't act like Stamina wouldn't be a useless mechanic either way.

 

 

An exploit doesn't have to be game breaking to be just that.  It gives you an advantage through glitching the games systems.  It's pretty clear that moving around in this way is not 'working as intended'.  People doing so are making use of an exploit.

[Unibot]

OP translate

"I can't do it. Nerf it please so my overall mobility won't differ that much from others due to my horrible perfomance"

 

Maybe you keep doing what you did and try not to limit others ? What next ? Slide jumps ? Lets remove sprint entirely and just walk. Will you be happy then ?

I do agree it looks not right, but you are not the one person who should decide if others would use it or not.

To put simple - don't like it - do not use it. You have different play style ? Fine. Others have theirs.

I do not wave dash. But I do like melee and I do like the ability to perform 2 slide attacks in a row.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Unibot

[shukudai]

Wat

 

No, what? What's this and why should I take it seriously?

 

You imply that someone's idea is poop and tell them to think. So. Then you think. Do something more. Improve the idea. State your own.

 

It's principles, not about my opinion of other opinions.

 

Hahhahaha.   You're the best, FatalX7, never ever stop what you're currently doing.  Selective quoting out of context, straw men, flawed assumptions, imposing standards, failing to read, the whole shebang.  Do this the rest of your life, please, with family, friends, careers, romance.  It will serve you well.

 

6/10 for making me laugh for a good minute or so.  Don't bother replying.

[Mediave]

I simply cannot relate to people who don't strive for fast. It is the blood in my veins, it is a lifestyle. Going fast.

 

See, now I actually don't have a problem with this.  Rhino may be my favorite frame, due to his defense and tankiness, but I absolutely love Ash for some of his skills and, well, his ridiculous speed.

That being said, I don't like when people cheat to go faster.  I do wish they would normalize a lot of the frames (No frame should be as slow as Rhino and Frost, that is a drastic hindrance to their playability in multiplayer).