Please Remove The New Version Of Wave Dashing: Infinite Melee Slide Attack

[Luxangel7]

Yeah lets remove all the cool stuff and just "sprint"...

 

Why cant you let others have fun? If you want to walk around slowly and open every locker play solo.

 

No one is advocating we all crouch our way through the mission opening every locker. Your reaction shows me that you are someone that does this and is just scared at the cold hard fact that it is an exploit that will most likely be patched out. Because it should.

 

You and others that do this are the ones that are infringing on others fun by being able to slide like a frigin wet sponge everywhere, further exacerbating the rush dilemma of this game. 

 

If you want to enjoy an exploit do so until they fix it. But don't have the gall to act like I'm some sort of monster taking away your toys....

[Painmak3r]

It takes "effort" to move slightly faster than everyone else, so why not keep it? It makes an otherwise boring as hell hold w+shift more engaging. Just because a bunch of lazy fucks use macros doesn't mean its bad.

 

There are people who use macros for shooting, should we remove the guns too?

[Brahmastra]

There are people who use macros for shooting, should we remove the guns too?

 

Lets also remove all the mobs because someone might be wallhacking

[crow-k]

Or you know, fix the way that stamina works. It is so useless right now, fixing this still won't fix stamina. Also the people that find these things and people that are serious about using them don't use macros. It creates a serious lack of control in exchange for a dulling of skill because you are too lazy to learn the button presses.

 

If the devs want to sneak in a patch to auto ban macro users by looking for a repeat pattern with the exact same millisecond timing over and over, that is fine by me. But don't tell me how to have fun, and then insult me by implying that I can't press simple button combinations.

DEVs already stated macros are accepted. abusing the game mechanics in a way that is not in line with their vision of the game is not.

[Shaftronics]

It takes "effort" to move slightly faster than everyone else, so why not keep it? It makes an otherwise boring as hell hold w+shift more engaging. Just because a bunch of lazy fucks use macros doesn't mean its bad.

 

There are people who use macros for shooting, should we remove the guns too?

It's seriously hard to spam slide attack man. Watch out, we've got a bad &#! over here.

It takes effort to wall run and find shortcuts as well. Why not do that?

[Painmak3r]

It's seriously hard to spam slide attack man. Watch out, we've got a bad &#! over here.

It takes effort to wall run and find shortcuts as well. Why not do that?

 

I didn't say its hard, I said you are performing an extra action to go slightly faster. Doing things should be rewarding, right?

 

Wallruns? They are so glitchy right now they aren't even worth mentioning.

[Blatantfool]

I can do it without a Macro effortlessly. You seriously don't need a macro.

[aliasAnonymous]

uhm...it cots stamina to do this...wave dashing did not

 

Bugs

============

HOWEVER, there is a bug that needs fixing. I can have 0 stamina left and keep slide slashing...

Also, the momentum generation in the air needs to be fixed, as that doesn't make physical sense

 

Why it should stay

===========

it is not aesthetically displeasing when compared to the wave dash

It is the primary way to make melee damage builds effective

[Cindil]

Exploit? Until the devs take a stance on this particular mechanic, calling it an exploit is nothing short of divination. They did, afterall, code it in to the game.

 

One can cancel the recovery frames of an attack with a crouch. One can then attack from that crouch and cancel the recovery frames of that attack with another crouch. One can do this slowly or as quickly as a particular weapon's animation will allow. It's not exactly difficult and certainly isn't some set of arcane gestures requiring a macro.

 

It doesn't necessarily invalidate stamina or mods. It does shift things a little if it's going to be utilized for movement. Stamina regen is stiil very useful, and probably required over long distances with the faster weapons. Fury is incredibly useful to maintain any semblance of speed with chaining these attacks.

 

So, using certain weapons, plus a weapon mod and knowledge of animation cancelling allows one to open up a slot on his/her warframe (sprint).

 

This is called an option.

 

Options create depth.

 

Depth is good for games.

 

Personally, utilizing things like this feels much more fluid and fun than trying to leverage the incredibly clunky and unresponsive wallrunning/jumping mechanics. That stuff really needs to be tightened up.

[Notso]

Even wave-dashing was piss-easy without macros. I could do it for an entire map and never got finger cramp once. You've just got to be smart with your keybinds [ :

[TehJumpingJawa]

Remove this and you'll be removing one of the more skillful aspects of moving quickly and fluidly through the levels.

... And yes, timing it correctly does require skill; certainly more skill than the rather limited and mundane wall kicking/running, and the trivial sprint/dash mechanics.

It can also be chained together with other stuff to pull off batS#&$ insane jumps that open completely unintended movement paths.

Emergent gameplay FTW!

Edited May 12, 2013 by TehJumpingJawa

[Felandi]

Well, if anything. I must say the spin attack trick looks much more astetically pleasing than the old wave-dash. That was just twitchy and weird.

 

 

Besides, if DE fixed it, it will be likely they simply add a one second delay like they did for the old wave-dash. It would make it useable on a short term basis, for great bursts of speed. (As most spins can be done twice, dual-zoren being a notable exclusion.) Yet, they would not zoom through an entire room with it.

[ppallo]

Would anyone mind explaining why/how does one even do this?

 

I saw one guy just spinning and sliding through the map, is that what it is?

[FlanShark]

Would anyone mind explaining why/how does one even do this?

 

I saw one guy just spinning and sliding through the map, is that what it is?

 

simplest execution is just to strap on your dual ethers or other weapon it works with (i know of DHS and amphis, for example) then sprint forwards, hit toggle-crouch then melee in rapid succession. repeat this caps-E spam with the correct rhythm and you slide attack indefinitely.

 

the extra crouch-uncrouch caused by hitting caps cancels the animation of the previous slide attack faster than would normally be the case, I gather.

 

 

The damage potential of this is an unwanted side effect and I'd bet most of us that would miss this trick (read: will miss this trick, because this is so getting fixed sadly) don't really use it for killing stuff.

 

The value of this trick is that it makes moving across long stretches of open space interesting. Same value as strafe-jumping in Quake2/3 etc or indeed (in part) skiiing in tribes.

 

TL;DR: I won't be sad to see this trick get fixed because it's so fun in itself, but I will be sad because it is actually really hard to design an interesting mechanic for making crossing uninteresting space fun, and they won't even try to come up with one, in all likelihood. Nobody ever does :(

[FlanShark]

Small afterthought to prev post: the damage output difference between this trick and normally doing repeated slide attacks is unimpressive. I just say that to re-emphasize that the value of this technique is that it compresses empty, fightless, lootless stretches of map.

 

You spend less time doing nothing, and achieve this by a technique requiring that you at least pay attention to steer if you wanna do it smoothly enough outpace a sprinting loki/banshee.

Edited May 12, 2013 by FlanShark

[TehJumpingJawa]

simplest execution is just to strap on your dual ethers or other weapon it works with (i know of DHS and amphis, for example) then sprint forwards, hit toggle-crouch then melee in rapid succession. repeat this caps-E spam with the correct rhythm and you slide attack indefinitely.

 

the extra crouch-uncrouch caused by hitting caps cancels the animation of the previous slide attack faster than would normally be the case, I gather.

 

 

The damage potential of this is an unwanted side effect and I'd bet most of us that would miss this trick (read: will miss this trick, because this is so getting fixed sadly) don't really use it for killing stuff.

 

The value of this trick is that it makes moving across long stretches of open space interesting. Same value as strafe-jumping in Quake2/3 etc or indeed (in part) skiiing in tribes.

 

TL;DR: I won't be sad to see this trick get fixed because it's so fun in itself, but I will be sad because it is actually really hard to design an interesting mechanic for making crossing uninteresting space fun, and they won't even try to come up with one, in all likelihood. Nobody ever does :(

 

Oh wow, that wasn't even the mechanic I was talking about.

 

My comments are only in regard to the massive momentum boost you can get by correctly timed jump-spin-attacks on the right terrain surface. (I'm talking momentum boosts that literally fling your warframe across the map faster than a Speeding Volt/Slash Dashing Excal.

 

Didn't know you could interrupt the regular ground-spin cooldown by using toggle crouch. Will have to give that a try! ^^

Though even without interrupting the cooldown, well timed chain-ground-spin attacks still enable you to move far faster than regular sprinting.

[crow-k]

Remove this and you'll be removing one of the more skillful aspects of moving quickly and fluidly through the levels.

... And yes, timing it correctly does require skill; certainly more skill than the rather limited and mundane wall kicking/running, and the trivial sprint/dash mechanics.

It can also be chained together with other stuff to pull off batS#&$ insane jumps that open completely unintended movement paths.

Emergent gameplay FTW!

Bolded for bad idea to be included in an argument to keep an action. 

[Blatantfool]

Bolded for bad idea to be included in an argument to keep an action. 

 

 Nope. Still pretty cool. You can't really use it to get anywhere broken or exploitative. It just opens up paths here and there that are a bit faster.

[TehJumpingJawa]

Bolded for bad idea to be included in an argument to keep an action. 

 

A valid point if you want to play a game that is constrained by the imagination of the level designer.

I'd much rather play a game where the only constraint is my own imagination.

 

Emergent gameplay FTW!

[shukudai]

I've typically stayed out of the GD sh*tfests that have comprised the "discussions" regarding mobility techs on purpose, but after reading countless threads, I'm seeing a horrible trend that simply isn't ceasing.

 

Firstly, to be clear, I am a strong supporter of embracing and balancing mobility techs over the continuous removal of mobility options.

 

Defenders of mobility techs, at every turn, have responded to detractors' criticisms.  Many, many times.  Yet with every new thread that crops up, the same old criticisms are brought up all over again, as though the objections haven't been completely handled already?  There's been little to no effort to truly discuss the topic, it's more like a shouting match where one side just wants to talk, not to listen.  At best, it has resorted to subjective opinions ("well it looked ridiculous anyway") or ad hominem attacks ("GunZ elitists") and frankly, it's pathetic.

 

Macros?  This was merely DE's PR "reason" for introducing a slide boost timer.  Without even getting into the fact that the slide timer f*cked up BASIC mobility (flip > dragon kick), DE_STEVE HAS SAID MACROS ARE OKAY.

 

But macros themselves actually have sweet bloody nothing to do with the matter anyway.  Macros aren't needed, nor beneficial to mobility techs.  Trying to use a macro to wavedash or knifeskate would be an exercise in futility for anything other than perfectly flat terrain.  But by all means, continue to insist that macros are the reason why people are able to exceed your sprint mobility.

 

 

It exacerbates rushing, it widens the speed gap between players?  The way the game is set up rewards rushing!  And if your issue is with the speed gap, then I strongly suggest you take a look at the implementation of the Rush mod.  This little mod, being a % modifier, has the singular effect of exacerbating the speed gap between warframes.  If the slow frames max out their Rush mods in an arms race with the faster frames, they will be playing a loser's game.  Yo devs, nerf it to the ground!

 

Learn2wallrun?  It's almost condescending to suggest that mobility players would not practice wallrunning.  Because what players are doing is finding the best way to stay mobile.  If it's wallrunning, then it will be practiced.  Personally, I wallrun extensively, in combination with other mobility techs.  I practice doing wallrun laps of entire map tiles, I take wallrun shortcuts that I never see other players use.  Eventually the routes I take will probably be condemned as being "not intended by the devs".

 

It looks ridiculous? How about animating it properly so it looks cool enough for you?  Or will nothing short of the complete removal of a mobility option suffice for the offense of your aesthetic sensibilities?

 

I gladly welcome anyone who's willing and able to hold a reasonable discourse regarding this issue to respond.  I assure you there are far more reasons for embracing emergent techniques than against.

 

- shuki

[LoRDxDeMoN]

blahblah

 

To put it simply, it exploits game mechanics that weren't meant to function this way. Other examples would be the Cronus farm (any rush n abandon mission, really), infinite Chaos, infinite Moult.

[Blatantfool]

To put it simply, it exploits game mechanics that weren't meant to function this way. Other examples would be the Cronus farm (any rush n abandon mission, really), infinite Chaos, infinite Moult.

 

 Except if you had any ability to read you'd notice he said none of that.

[shukudai]

Thankyou for proving my point.

 

Your overly simplistic view is not incorrect, but it falls far short of constructive dialogue and misses the mark completely.

[LoRDxDeMoN]

 Except if you had any ability to read you'd notice he said none of that.

 

Said none of what? I didn't say he said anything. Where did you get that from?

[LoRDxDeMoN]

Thankyou for proving my point.

 

Your overly simplistic view is not incorrect, but it falls far short of constructive dialogue and misses the mark completely.

 

There is no mark, that's my point. If the developers don't like it, they'll fix it. Why? Because they feel like it. It don't get more simplistic than that.