Poll Results-86.9% Of Players Want Rollers Tweaked/removed

[Madotsuki]

Edit: Because people apparently DON'T READ, I'll put this at the very top of my post. I DO NOT WANT ROLLERS OUTRIGHT REMOVED FROM THE GAME, I ONLY WANT THEM TO BE TWEAKED SO THAT THEY ARE CHALLENGING AND FUN WITHOUT BEING A FRUSTRATING NUISANCE STAGGER-FEST. IF, and only IF, THEY ARE TO BE REMOVED, THEY MUST BE REPLACED WITH SOMETHING BETTER IMMEDIATELY OR SOON AFTER THEIR REMOVAL. Now unrustle your jimmies and read the rest of the post.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Enemies

 

After participating in a different Roller thread, I decided that my personal opinion and experience simply isn’t enough to persuade Roller Lovers that Rollers are poorly designed enemies that need to be properly adjusted. So I decided to resort to the scientific method and went and started up a poll on the official Warframe wiki to collect public opinion. And as the “Petition (Or Discussion!) To Remove Or Redesign The Grineer Rollers” thread hits a whopping 21 pages, my poll has finally reached 1000+ voters as of 14/5/2013, enough for us to reach a sound conclusion.

 

As you can see from the poll, 882 of 1015 voters want the infamous Rollers either tweaked or outright removed from the game. That is 86.9% of voters. I think it’s safe to say that public opinion has spoken, and that it’s time DE addressed the Roller problem.

 

Now, based on the responses by the Roller Lovers in the other Roller thread, some of you might say “1000 voters cannot possibly represent the entire playerbase!” To that, I say, “Learn some basic information about statistics and polling.” Most polling companies, and I mean actual companies that poll far more important things than whether an enemy in a video game is poorly designed, use sample sizes of 400-1000. A sample size of 1000 will give you a confidence interval of +/-3% 19 times out of 20 (95%). I won’t go into detail about what a confidence interval is, but the current poll is more than enough to accurately estimate the proportion of players who want Rollers tweaked, or outright removed.

 

Some others would say “The poll is not random! It’s biased!” And yes, you're right, it's not. It's a poll of people who browse the Warframe wiki, which means they do out-of-game research on their game. This means a much higher proportion of powergamers will be viewing the poll and providing input. How does this matter? Well, simple. Powergamers and people who spend time on videogame wikis are more dedicated gamers who will, because of that dedication, generally also be more skilled than your average gamer. The poll also will not catch players who have been frustrated by excessive overuse of stun mechanics and decided to quit. Literally everyone the poll excludes is far more likely to dislike Rollers than like them. In other words, the poll would be biased TOWARDS dedicated and skilled players. In such a situation, with 86.9% of voters wanting Rollers tweaked or removed, that’s saying something.

 

Rollers are frustrating, unfun, uninteresting, poorly designed enemy units and 86.9% of the Warframe playerbase would agree with me. So, how should DE tweak Rollers to make them acceptable enemies, if they decide to keep them and not outright remove them from the game like the infamous Nervos? Below are a few suggestions, including my own and others.

 

1.      Introduce diminishing returns to stuns and staggers around the board. Both players and enemies will be unable to stunlock each other by introducing a “stagger-immunity” period to both after being staggered.

2.      Give Rollers a proper “attack animation” that they can only deal damage and stagger during. For example, a Sonic-esque stationary spin-up (during which the Roller will be invulnerable and deflect bullets due to spinning speed) that is followed by a double-speed straight-line charge. If it hits a wall or prop during the charge, it will be counter-stunned and allow players to dispatch them easily, promoting using your environment in battle.

3.      Allow players to bat/smack away Rollers with their melee weapon by blocking in their direction. Smacking it into a wall briefly stuns it, smacking it into an enemy staggers the enemy. This gives the block ability a purpose and is also cool and fun as hell.

 

And if Rollers are to be removed from the game, something better must take its place of course. While I won’t go into detail on what it should be replaced with here, I started a little thread a while ago detailing options. Here is the link to that thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/30942-grineer-suggestions-for-new-units-squad-combos-better-ai-tweak-old-units/

 

Public opinion has spoken. Rollers need to be changed, and they need to be changed soon.

 

The poll is still up by the way, and will stay up in the foreseeable future for even larger sample sizes.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Madotsuki

[Endrance]

No.

 

Roller should stay, just like they are, they are basically the only enemy that actually gives a little trouble to kill, since their fast, their hit box is small, and they knock back alot. Those "public" poll serve as nothing, it's not a DE poll, and it's just the opinion of people.

 

Don't get me wrong, i really hate those rollers, but hell, they were made for this sole purpose, making you have a hard time when you encounter one or two. They already removed Nervos, so in my opinion you would only have 2 choices.

 

Keep it this way.

 

Make it your way, but add Nervos back. Then you'll have a reason to complain.

[Enomilli]

And make this game even easier than it already is?

 

No...stop trying to dumb this game down to a point where a 5 year old could breeze through it...

[matrixEXO]

I like the idea a lot. Personally hate the Rollers and more importantly hate it at it's current state. I had an encounter with 5 freaking Rollers during a Solo mission with about 10 enemies around my &#!. I had to exploit the very small window of invulnerability to dodge a Roller's attack and ran to the next floor (Mining Station tileset, so yeah) to focus on dispatching the Rollers first. Thank gods the enemy Grineers didn't chase me up to second floor... maybe cause of the gaps that allowed them to fire at me (and hit the railings 90% of the time).

Edited May 14, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Smith0rz]

If I recall, games weren't democracies...Let's make a poll asking who wants free platinum ! wooo

Edited May 14, 2013 by Smith0rz

[BeerDone]

Make it your way, but add Nervos back. Then you'll have a reason to complain.

 

God I loved those, all they needed was an easy dispatch way, like having them stick on a specific part of the body indefinitely.

 

As for the rollers, I just think they should attack when ATTACKING, not all the bloody time on contact. THAT'S annoying.

[BeerDone]

I like the idea a lot. Personally hate the Rollers and more importantly hate it at it's current state. I had an encounter with 5 freaking Rollers during a Solo mission with about 10 enemies around my &#!. I had to exploit the very small window of invulnerability to dodge a roller's attack and ran to the next floor (Mining Station tileset, so yeah) to focus on dispatching the rollers first. Thank gods the enemy Grineers didn't chase me up to second floor... maybe cause of the gaps that allowed them to fire at me (and hit the railings 90% of the time).

That sounds awesome, what's your deal?

[Madotsuki]

No.

 

Roller should stay, just like they are, they are basically the only enemy that actually gives a little trouble to kill, since their fast, their hit box is small, and they knock back alot. Those "public" poll serve as nothing, it's not a DE poll, and it's just the opinion of people.

 

Don't get me wrong, i really hate those rollers, but hell, they were made for this sole purpose, making you have a hard time when you encounter one or two. They already removed Nervos, so in my opinion you would only have 2 choices.

 

Keep it this way.

 

Make it your way, but add Nervos back. Then you'll have a reason to complain.

Let me tell you something. Warframe is a Free2Play game. It is an action game that was never advertised to only cater to a niche population, and being a Free2Play game, it requires as much support from the playerbase as possible. The fact that you would simply dismiss the opinion of 86.9% of the playerbase as unimportant is nothing but a show of your inflated ego. If DE made a poll themselves, with the same sample size, there is a 95% chance it will get almost the same results.

 

Ever heard of a democracy? If over half of the playerbase, much less over 85% of it, wants Rollers tweaked/removed, then DE would do well to follow the majority decision and ignore the toxic minority such as yourself.

[matrixEXO]

That sounds awesome, what's your deal?

Because, if it weren't for the small window of invulnerability I would have been locked down permanently? It was just by luck that I happened to chance upon that window due to some boxes blocking the path of some Rollers but was locked down for like 1 minute before that. And it was hitting my shields all gone and replenished only because of the Guardian mod.

[Xoxile]

As much I am annoyed at rollers as the next guy I think your poll was poorly implemented as the question is phrased incorrectly. There should have been four cattagories; remove them, don't change them, nerf them, and buff them. As the "tweak" could mean either buff, or nerf.

[Enomilli]

Let me tell you something. Warframe is a Free2Play game. It is an action game that was never advertised to only cater to a niche population, and being a Free2Play game, it requires as much support from the playerbase as possible. The fact that you would simply dismiss the opinion of 86.9% of the playerbase as unimportant is nothing but a show of your inflated ego. If DE made a poll themselves, with the same sample size, there is a 95% chance it will get almost the same results.

 

Ever heard of a democracy? If over half of the playerbase, much less over 85% of it, wants Rollers tweaked/removed, then DE would do well to follow the majority decision and ignore the toxic minority such as yourself.

This game has over one million members...unless this is a new universe and I'm an idiot...1000 is not even close to 86% of one million.

 

Keep the rollers and bring back the nervos...this game is too easy without them...

Edited May 14, 2013 by Ystella

[Madatom]

replace the rollers with wheel skeletons

[ZaxNyu]

Let me tell you something. Warframe is a Free2Play game. It is an action game that was never advertised to only cater to a niche population, and being a Free2Play game, it requires as much support from the playerbase as possible. The fact that you would simply dismiss the opinion of 86.9% of the playerbase as unimportant is nothing but a show of your inflated ego. If DE made a poll themselves, with the same sample size, there is a 95% chance it will get almost the same results.

 

Ever heard of a democracy? If over half of the playerbase, much less over 85% of it, wants Rollers tweaked/removed, then DE would do well to follow the majority decision and ignore the toxic minority such as yourself.

 

And there is your biggest fault. That poll does NOT represent the whole playerbase. I did not vote. I'm sure we are MUCH more than 1000 players in this game, so it's far from a full playerbase poll.

 

And there is a reason that game developers don't let their players decide what to put in, what to remove etc. Because it is their game and their idea of a most fun game. The only reasonable thread for the rollers I saw until now is from a guy asking to tweak their appearance and sound to match the rollers' threat.

Edited May 14, 2013 by ZaxNyu

[Madotsuki]

If I recall, games weren't democracies...Let's make a poll asking who wants free platinum ! wooo

Except platinum is directly related to the economic wellbeing of DE. Giving away free platinum would have high negative consequences on DE's financial income, which is why they shouldn't do it (not OFTEN anyway), although it would be true that they would make a ton of players happy and be more loyal to the game.

 

Rollers however are the opposite. The fact that players DON'T LIKE rollers means that Rollers have a negative impact on these player's gameplay experience, and thus they will like the game less and thus be less willing to pay DE. Not only would keeping Rollers as they are displease an extremely large proportion of the playerbase, it would have negative consequences on DE's financial income. It would be FINANCIALLY BENEFICIAL for DE to tweak/remove Rollers. Think before you use a false comparison.

[matrixEXO]

Except platinum is directly related to the economic wellbeing of DE. Giving away free platinum would have high negative consequences on DE's financial income, which is why they shouldn't do it (not OFTEN anyway), although it would be true that they would make a ton of players happy and be more loyal to the game.

Errr... Going off-topic because I'm curious.

 

If a government were to give out FREE money to all the people (let's take America), what would happen to the government? How will it affect the growth and the economical situation?

Edited May 14, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Madotsuki]

And there is your biggest fault. That poll does NOT represent the whole playerbase. I did not vote. I'm sure we are MUCH more than 1000 players in this game, so it's far from a full playerbase poll.

Did you even read the rest of my opening post about WHY the poll DOES have a very high chance of representing the whole playerbase, and is in fact BIASED towards those who would LIKE Rollers due to having a higher skill level to deal with them?

[MJ12]

And there is your biggest fault. That poll does NOT represent the whole playerbase. I did not vote. I'm sure we are MUCH more than 1000 players in this game, so it's far from a full playerbase poll.

 

He spends several paragraphs in the OP explaining basic statistics to you guys and how a poll of 1000 people is more than capable of reliably estimating the opinions of the entire population. How the hell do you think presidential election polls work? They don't, FYI, poll every American who can vote. They poll a thousand randomly chosen voters and they work.

 

Polling is actually a very well-studied field and there is a ton of research on it. You're going to have to do better than going "that poll with more people than is required for a reliable poll of far more important things like, say predicting presidential election outcomes or what people feel towards #$$ marriage is totally unreliable because it doesn't have millions of respondents!"

 

EDIT: Apparently the profanity censor isn't context sensitive and "male-male/female-female marriage" gets censored. Score one for terrible gamers.

Edited May 14, 2013 by MJ12

[Enomilli]

He spends several paragraphs in the OP explaining basic statistics to you guys and how a poll of 1000 people is more than capable of reliably estimating the opinions of the entire population. How the hell do you think presidential election polls work? They don't, FYI, poll every American who can vote. They poll a thousand randomly chosen voters and they work.

 

Polling is actually a very well-studied field and there is a ton of research on it. You're going to have to do better than going "that poll with more people than is required for a reliable poll of far more important things like, say predicting presidential election outcomes or what people feel towards #$$ marriage is totally unreliable because it doesn't have millions of respondents!"

This is not a presidential election...

 

This is a video game forum...

 

If DE truly saw it as a problem they would remove it...

 

But rollers are the last thing keeping this game interesting...

 

A silly little ball strikes more fear into our hearts than the Stalker himself...

 

Do you know how bland the game would be if the rollers were gone...?

[ZaxNyu]

Did you even read the rest of my opening post about WHY the poll DOES have a very high chance of representing the whole playerbase, and is in fact BIASED towards those who would LIKE Rollers due to having a higher skill level to deal with them?

 

You ever heard of trolls and alike? I am 200% sure most of the people that are ok with the rollers, don't vote on a poll like this because they of course "know" DE would never take that, on an exterior website, as the represented playerbase.

[Madotsuki]

Errr... Going off-topic because I'm curious.

 

If a government were to give out FREE money to all the people (let's take America), what would happen to the government? How will it affect the growth and the economical situation?

Another false comparison. A government giving free money to all of its citizens is not in any way comparable to the Roller situation, and is in fact more related to your already false comparison of giving free plat. Plus, a country is not in any way equivalent to a game. If people don't like a game, they can move on to hundreds, thousands of alternatives without another thought. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to move to a different country?

[Nagapur]

Remove rollers and make every game a steam roll?

 

No thanks

[matrixEXO]

Another false comparison. A government giving free money to all of its citizens is not in any way comparable to the Roller situation, and is in fact more related to your already false comparison of giving free plat. Plus, a country is not in any way equivalent to a game. If people don't like a game, they can move on to hundreds, thousands of alternatives without another thought. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to move to a different country?

I think I was derped? When was I comparing falsely? I was trying to use the idea of DE giving out free plays being a negative situation into a global real-life scale and asking about what the theoretical after-effects would occur. Have I cleared up the reason why I went off-topic?

Edited May 14, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Madotsuki]

You ever heard of trolls and alike? I am 200% sure most of the people that are ok with the rollers, don't vote on a poll like this because they of course "know" DE would never take that, on an exterior website, as the represented playerbase.

So, because the poll results do not match your own personal worldview, you are going to dismiss 800+ people as trolls and assume that the REAL players just don't vote. Oh and, did you know that the Warframe wiki is OFFICIAL? DERebecca is an admin there and even updates it with newsfeed herself. Do you even read what you just typed?

[MJ12]

This is not a presidential election...

 

This is a video game forum...

 

Yeah, it's an unimportant videogame with no reason for people to deliberately bias the poll. This is even more reason why the poll results should be taken as accurate.

 

If DE truly saw it as a problem they would remove it...

 

But rollers are the last thing keeping this game interesting...

 

A silly little ball strikes more fear into our hearts than the Stalker himself...

 

Do you know how bland the game would be if the rollers were gone...?

 

Yes, I do. And the answer is "far less bland than right now", because Rollers are literally the most boring unfun enemies in the game, and I include Seekers throwing Nervos and pre-nerf Chargers who instantly stunlocked then killed you and were immune to 90% of melee attacks in this category. And you're right, a silly little ball strikes more fear into our hearts than the Stalker himself. This is a reason to nerf Rollers, because the Stalker isn't exactly easy when he doesn't bug out and get dogpiled by 5000 high-level enemies.

[MJ12]

You ever heard of trolls and alike? I am 200% sure most of the people that are ok with the rollers, don't vote on a poll like this because they of course "know" DE would never take that, on an exterior website, as the represented playerbase.

 

Prove it. You are saying this poll is deliberately biased in favor of the opposition side. How about you put your money where your mouth is and prove this assertion? Or are you just throwing whatever accusations you can at a wall and seeing what sticks? First you pretend a population sample size of 1000 is insufficient. Then you claim the poll is biased.

 

What next? Claiming that we paid off other gamers to vote?