Poll Results-86.9% Of Players Want Rollers Tweaked/removed

[matrixEXO]

It's because...people want them gone...and not nerfed.

 

Speaking of which...I have forgotten...did you want them gone? If so that explains it...if not...then I'm going to apologize for mistaking your  cause.

 

What I said, that started our little squabble was:

 

Grats. You dealt with 1 ball. Now deal with 4~5 swarming you from all over.

 

EDIT: It has little to bring to the fun aspect to beating them than it is a chore. It's like when you are young and have to "Tidy your room! Clean the dishes! Water the plants!" where they aren't fun but a necessity because you do know what is gonna happen eventually. Or maybe you never felt that way.

 

And I hope it didn't mean that I wanted it gone. Cause I never explicitly say that. I want it tweaked so it becomes another enemy that can be dealt with in a different way (and opens up other possible solutions to the battlefield puzzle) other than the current meta.

[Enomilli]

it is good that you got the point. However the challenge created by rollers is purely artificial. There are lots of other ways increasing game difficulty rather then make players lose control of their characters.

They have not done that yet...DE is working on it.

 

We don't need another impromptu nerf...I already miss the nervos...and with the rollers gone without these new challenges...

 

I doubt I'd be too fond of that...

[VentRoxas]

No way is rollers going to be tweaked dont make the game easier unless the tweak is to make the rollers more frustrating

[matrixEXO]

That might be too difficult to properly implement...

 

I'm fine with Shade as is because I have such a squishy build and it helps me burst my DPS.

 

I use Shade offensively which is different in my case...I'm not certain if that would really affect offensive Shade players.

I too use Shade offensively. The Cloak is way powerful because of that. I rely on the Cloak to get me around regen-ing my shields, getting out of combat for a quick tactical view of the area and so on. Problem is still the Cloak and the way it works.

[Enomilli]

What I said, that started our little squabble was:

 

 

And I hope it didn't mean that I wanted it gone. Cause I never explicitly say that. I want it tweaked so it becomes another enemy that can be dealt with in a different way (and opens up other possible solutions to the battlefield puzzle) other than the current meta.

I sincerely apologize for confusing your argument with that of others...

 

You are correct however, rollers are fast...annoying...low in damage but in numbers they are ridiculous I agree.

 

They are only ridiculous in numbers because their stun is broken and not working properly.

 

If they fix that then it wont be so bad...thinking of their intended design helps tolerate them. 

[matrixEXO]

I sincerely apologize for confusing your argument with that of others...

 

You are correct however, rollers are fast...annoying...low in damage but in numbers they are ridiculous I agree.

 

They are only ridiculous in numbers because their stun is broken and not working properly.

 

If they fix that then it wont be so bad...thinking of their intended design helps tolerate them. 

No worries.

 

Frustrating stuffs always exists in any game. Pre-renewal RO1 was frustrating as hell to level up alone. But it was enjoyable. At least before the Pay-2-Play aspect came along.

Edited May 14, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Enomilli]

I too use Shade offensively. The Cloak is way powerful because of that. I rely on the Cloak to get me around regen-ing my shields, getting out of combat for a quick tactical view of the area and so on. Problem is still the Cloak and the way it works.

I'm afraid they cannot nerf Cloak without making the entire playerbase abandon him...

 

I only use Cloak for shielding during a boss...but for those of us who are offensively Shade users...how would we nerf that...?

[matrixEXO]

I'm afraid they cannot nerf Cloak without making the entire playerbase abandon him...

 

I only use Cloak for shielding during a boss...but for those of us who are offensively Shade users...how would we nerf that...?

Cloak was meant to be a stealthy approach to battle. Nerfing Cloak would be to just simply add an artificial detection system onto the enemies, like I have said. It need not be the range where the enemies can normally detect you, it can even be about 50% of it. The point is to actually have a system where staying close to an enemy while Cloaked and in high-combat would be a bane than boon. And if I recall correctly, maxed level Cloak has the same range as the enemy's detection range... but I could be wrong.

Edited May 14, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Enomilli]

Sometimes the I cloak before it and sometimes I do not...it is very dependent...

 

I see what you mean...as you get closer...they are going to be able to more likely see you and recognize you...

 

However assassinations now decloak you...so that way you have to be very smart when planning those...

 

And during an offensive fight...(speaking about the possible nerf) You would have to get a certain range or else the enemy would fire in your general direction maybe...?

[matrixEXO]

Sometimes the I cloak before it and sometimes I do not...it is very dependent...

 

I see what you mean...as you get closer...they are going to be able to more likely see you and recognize you...

 

However assassinations now decloak you...so that way you have to be very smart when planning those...

 

And during an offensive fight...(speaking about the possible nerf) You would have to get a certain range or else the enemy would fire in your general direction maybe...?

Yeap. That's part of the idea. It's to actually create a more stealthy feel to the game designs without inherently breaking it. The only enemies that I see would cause problems are the MOAs and the Infested. MOA detection range is, what, infinite (?) since they only spawn upon alert. And Infested are melee enemies with absurd range detection.

 

Also, for now, enemies firing at Cloaked Warframes just have it's bullets pass through or deal no damage. I happened to had some Corpus enemies fire at me so I know.

Edited May 14, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Strac_CRO]

it's fine as it is

[Azure_Kytia]

I don't recall the curses being there, Madotsuki. You may want to tone it down a notch.

 

If it's his opinion and he just wishes to disagree, then that's his prerogative. Being sarcastic and defensive about it solves less than the input he offered, which was namely, that he disagrees that there is a problem.

[nullCassielle]

Funny story:

 

I came into this thread and there were two separate camps entrenched so deeply against each other that infinitely powerful flame wars seemed inevitable. I expected to see moderator intervention and a load of contextless posts due to someone or another getting banned later in the thread.

 

Around page 4, suddenly THERE IS ONLY ONE GROUP who are all rooting for the exact same cause -- because it turns out the camps in question were just kneejerk responding to what they saw as their opponents and not actually reading deeply. When things are explained properly, turns out everyone is right because they were arguing over something not based in reality!

 

Can we just, you know, lose ALL the personal attacks now? Because without them, there might not have been 4 pages of bullS#&$ to get to the tearful reconciliation.

Edited May 14, 2013 by nullqasael

[Azure_Kytia]

Agree wholeheartedly. Agree to disagree if you want, but leave disrespect for those of a different opinion outside the door to the Warframe forums.

[PapaKicks]

And as the “Petition (Or Discussion!) To Remove Or Redesign The Grineer Rollers” thread hits a whopping 21 pages, my poll has finally reached 1000+ voters as of 14/5/2013, enough for us to reach a sound conclusion.

 

As you can see from the poll, 882 of 1015 voters want the infamous Rollers either tweaked or outright removed from the game. That is 86.9% of voters. I think it’s safe to say that public opinion has spoken, and that it’s time DE addressed the Roller problem.

 

 

Your poll is biased in another way. Not once did I read your thread of 21 pages long because I don't mind how they are so I figured I wouldn't find anything of interest to me in that thread. There's much more interesting content to see (for me). I'm sure I represent a group not large enough to make a huge difference. Just saying it's a slightly flawed poll.

 

It's the equivalent of calling up Republican and Democrat voters and ignoring Independents.

 

FYI I'm still not going to vote, cause I still don't care. ;)

[nullCassielle]

Also, to OP: you're slightly incorrect about the playerbase that the wiki represents. Three main kinds of players use wikis, and all three kinds are very different. However, I know enough about statistics to know that doesn't matter. Regardless, here you go:

 

Powergamers are one type of player likely to visit a wiki.

 

Another type of player is one I can't even think of a snappy term for, but they are focused on doing everything the easy way. They aren't particularly skilled or gifted, and don't have much available time or patience to learn the skills required. They usually won't resort to cheats -- unless they're built into the game itself, in which case it's fair game. These kinds of players are likely to DESPISE rollers.

 

Lastly, we have new players, who would use the wiki to figure out burning questions such as: "Which starting frame? Which weapons? Is Excalibur Prime worth $50? How do I get a Braton Vandal? What is a Stalker? Is there any easy way to beat rollers?" These players may end up changing their position to "normal player", "powergamer" or "that other one I can't quite name" over time, but they're new to the game at the moment. Their first encounter with rollers is likely to be frustration. They haven't had time to work out tactics, they maybe are actually put in a location where rollers are king due to low mobility, close quarters, and no cover, and maybe they aren't even kitted out appropriately. They are likely to vote for change/remove.

 

From personal experience, with a game with a conversion rate and word of mouth as high as Warframe's I'd assume the proportions are roughly 31%-20%-4%, plus or minus 2%, with the remainder being filled out by just normal everyday players.

[Madotsuki]

Your poll is biased in another way. Not once did I read your thread of 21 pages long because I don't mind how they are so I figured I wouldn't find anything of interest to me in that thread. There's much more interesting content to see (for me). I'm sure I represent a group not large enough to make a huge difference. Just saying it's a slightly flawed poll.

 

It's the equivalent of calling up Republican and Democrat voters and ignoring Independents.

 

FYI I'm still not going to vote, cause I still don't care. ;)

That other 21-page thread is not mine, i didn't start it, i just read bits of it/posted a few times in it. And yes, it's a slightly flawed poll, still doesn't change the fact the majority of players do want Rollers tweaked/removed. I can see you get the point though, but the "i don't care" variety of players such as yourself would be fine no matter if Rollers are tweaked/removed or not, so it is in a way justified that they are left out of the poll. It's not like the poll was placed after hours/days of thought and consideration anyway, I just felt like i should make a poll to make my point.

[Tyrian3k]

I can only say that after the Nervos, the Rollers seem quite docile to me.

 

They can be annoying at times, but that doesn't happen that often.

 

 

Another type of player is one I can't even think of a snappy term for, but they are focused on doing everything the easy way. They aren't particularly skilled or gifted, and don't have much available time or patience to learn the skills required. They usually won't resort to cheats -- unless they're built into the game itself, in which case it's fair game. These kinds of players are likely to DESPISE rollers.

 

How about "Lazygamers"? That's what the description sounds like to me.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Tyrian3k

[Azure_Kytia]

Mmmm, but if they have other things to do that requires a lot of their time, that doesn't really make them lazy.

 

"IHaveThingsToDoAndEfficiencyIsKey" gamers. IHTTDAEIK gamers.

[nullCassielle]

Mmmm, but if they have other things to do that requires a lot of their time, that doesn't really make them lazy.

 

"IHaveThingsToDoAndEfficiencyIsKey" gamers. IHTTDAEIK gamers.

 

Except that some of them ARE lazy.

 

And some of them are neither, and are really just there for the show.

 

And some are there for power fantasy.

 

The only things they all have in common is that they are easily frustrated, below average in skill, and likely to look for "neat tricks" that make everything easy. This is why I can't name them.

 

EDIT: For reference, I used to be one of these of the "just there for the show" type. Over time I first learned that the show is a LOT nicer if you got the skills required, and a year or two later got a job, putting me in the efficiency category.

 

Now I've adapted to acquire ludicrous skills at a fast pace, so I don't fit the category in question at all anymore.

Edited May 14, 2013 by nullqasael

[Tyrian3k]

Casual gamer?

[Sophax]

No.

 

Roller should stay, just like they are, they are basically the only enemy that actually gives a little trouble to kill, since their fast, their hit box is small, and they knock back alot. Those "public" poll serve as nothing, it's not a DE poll, and it's just the opinion of people.

 

Don't get me wrong, i really hate those rollers, but hell, they were made for this sole purpose, making you have a hard time when you encounter one or two. They already removed Nervos, so in my opinion you would only have 2 choices.

 

Keep it this way.

 

Make it your way, but add Nervos back. Then you'll have a reason to complain.

How about we give rollers guns so that when they shoot you they stagger you instantly. You know just to make you have a hard time with them. 

 

Seriously its not about making the game difficult and annoying its about making the game challenging and fun to beat.

 

Stop being so conservative please.

[TinyLesbianRobot]

And make this game even easier than it already is?

 

No...stop trying to dumb this game down to a point where a 5 year old could breeze through it...

Not everyone who plays this game is a sadomasochist.

I, and obviously, many others, would like challenge from good design, not from cheap abilities.

Make it so that Rollers only stumble and do damage when they jump at you.  That'd be plenty.  They're still fast, swarmy, hard to hit, and very dangerous in groups, but you can no longer get stunlocked by one if it pins you in a corner.

[Second_Measure]

They need to be staggered themselves when you jumpdrop on them with a sword so you can throw in a few shots before they start moving again. Otherwise, the rollers are fine - Pain in the &#! in swarms though.

[MoonicusMaximus]

My only problem with that poll is that it was only advertised in a thread that specifically catered to people who already had a predisposition against Rollers. It was not advertised in an impartial way, and that may or may not have skewed the numbers in an unrealistic way. The poll was, to my knowledge, not advertised in a thread that was already in favor and good standing with Rollers as a comparison.

 

It would be the same as if I went to a Boston Pub and asked everyone if they loved or hated the New York Yankees. Of course I'll get a majority siding with dislike for them Yankees. But that's not a proper poll for whether or not America as a whole likes or dislikes the Yankees.

 

---

 

I am in favor of certain Roller tweaks, however. I'll just copy and post my assessment from the last thread for reference.

 

Very few here want Rollers completely removed. There are several ways of improving Rollers to remove their more despised mechanics while keeping their gameplay-altering benefits. They are a special unit, like Heavy Gunners and Ancients, and should be kept that way, but currently, stunlocking mechanics keep them from improving by basically locking them into that singular role.

I believe that Rollers should only impart a stagger effect on players when connecting with their actual leaping attack with blades extended. As they are now, hitbox collision is all Rollers need to stagger Tenno, and this can be more troublesome than is proportional to the effort expended dealing with them, especially in large groups. If Rollers only impart a stagger effect on their leap attack, they would still maintain their ability to disrupt players while keeping within limits of reason pertaining to chances of stunlock occuring, as their leap attacks are not nearly as frequent as them just rolling underfoot, without actually having acquired Tenno as targets for a leap.

Stunlock mechanics in general are too black-and-white as they are now; you're either performing well and are never stunned for more than a second, or you are stunlocked by multiple enemies for long periods of time with not chance of escape. It's meant as a punishment and an incentive for players not to be struck by stun-capable enemies, but this needs to be addressed as it's too punishing to players as it is now. There are several suggestions in the thread already about dealing with the issue of stunlock.

Right now, Rollers are built entirely around their ability to disrupt, but if their leap attack were it's only way to impart the stagger effect, it would leave room for DE to add more layers to the Roller instead of simply 'small and fast unit, disruption with low damage;. Perhaps the leap attack can actually do damage now in addition to a stunning effect, because as they are now, Rollers do next to no damage whatsoever and cannot be an actual threat to Tenno by themselves. If it's not relying solely on its ability to stagger players on simple touch, DE could have more reason to make them more mobile as well; maybe they be changed to be able to scale terrain now, to compensate for their constant problem of terrain clipping. Maybe they can climb on walls as well in order to reach Tenno better and actually fulfill their purpose of keeping up with speedy Tenno and harassing them until other slow Grineer units can catch up.

There are plenty of ways to make Rollers more interesting while still keeping their limited ability to disrupt players, but as they are now, they rely too much on simple stagger and stun mechanics to make more difficult/challenging without making them overpowered and disproportionate to the amount of effort one needs to deal with them. I would gladly reduce their disruptive ability (but not completely remove it) to have them present more interesting variety to the normal Grineer gameplay.

Edited May 14, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus