Founders Not So "founders" Anymore.

[Ruzu]

Please refrain from attacking a individuals rights to make their own decisions as it is not in the good spirit of this discussion. 

 

Attacking an individuals right to make their own decisions and offering advice on how someone could have made a more informed purchase are two different things. If I was attacking him, I would've said something like "you're an idiot for making an impulse decision. It's your own fault for making such a stupid investment". Instead, I told him that "it's human nature to make impulse decisions. There are people who buy the most expensive package available just because they want the best or something similar". In no way did I ever attack his judgement. I merely analyzed his logic and gave a possible scenario where he could have been more logical, where he could have had the opportunity to make an even wiser decision regarding his purchase. I could care naught what he eventually decided to do. It's his decision as you say.

 

I acknowledge the fact that Zackai said he thought long and hard before making his purchase. However, he initially stated that  he personally knew others who "scrambled" to make a purchase. If that is not an impulse decision, I don't know what is. Again, not an attack. Merely an observational analysis.

 

Once again, I can understand the anger/frustration people felt for being mislead about when the founder's package should have ended, but people really do need to think more logically about whether they can afford the financial investment to support DE at various tiers. Do it because you want to, and can afford to, not because you want to, and have to.

 

I'll also agree with changing founders to supporters, a pointless name change in my opinion, but if it gets rid of this thread to allow for more purposeful threads, then I'm all for it. It would be a logical decision that basically satisfies everyone, correct?

[Dagnome]

There are a few of you who believe this thread to be a "E-peen stroking, ego boosting, waste of space on the forums" I however see a lot of good discussion coming out of it, most of which is valid. usually the individuals who say a argument is "Pointless" when it has merit have no opinion in the matter, which is fine, but do not try to shut off a venue for discussion about a topic that obviously has some substance to it. 

[Nod_Off]

Founders aren't unique or special. The are an interest group that wants to support DE in their endeavour of creating Warframe. Founders is not an elite supersecret club house group, it is DE thanking those willing to put trust into their goal and expressing this trust with funds DE needs/uses to develop the game. Founders are nothing but that - a supporter's financial group, with no entitlement to limited editions other than those provided. You don't buy Warframe. You give DE money to make Warframe and you receive a little "thank you".

 

Any other outlook on Founders will cause friction, because Founders are no different than other players, have no elevated rights or importance. They get a little sneak-peek forum where they can oversee their investments if they paid US$100++, otherwise, they get a handful exclusive items and discounted Platinum. That's it. They are not a core feedback group, people that can demand to be pleased specifically, or otherwise special. If you think differently, if you deem that Founders should be treated better than others, or should continously be pampered, I can only disagree.

 

You support because you believe in the game. You don't support because you want to be a special snowflake.

 

DE's stance is clear: There will be no segregation between paying and free players.

 

Doesnt change that is had a clear end date, which rushed purchases, that was changed last minute. Bad business practice. 

[Nod_Off]

There are a few of you who believe this thread to be a "E-peen stroking, ego boosting, waste of space on the forums" I however see a lot of good discussion coming out of it, most of which is valid. usually the individuals who say a argument is "Pointless" when it has merit have no opinion in the matter, which is fine, but do not try to shut off a venue for discussion about a topic that obviously has some substance to it.

1000% this. It just shows you also think your opinion is superior as you think it should not even be up for discussion. That's cool, but still your opinion.

[Blatantfool]

Doesnt change that is had a clear end date, which rushed purchases, that was changed last minute. Bad business practice. 

 

 Actually I'd say odds are that business practice was ridiculously lucrative.

[ReiganCross]

Why are you calling this game "Founded"?!... Why do you keep calling this game a finished product, time and time again?!... This game needs more founding, this game needs more time to even come CLOSE of coming out of Beta. We are not done founding, the time of the principles of this game have not ended! You don't feel unique NOW because everyone you see NOW can and probably will become a Founder, but that will INEVITABLY change! They WILL close the Founders program, it WILL happen... And when that does, you WILL be a special little sunflower. But today is not that day! This time is not the time to even CONCIDER calling this game out of it's foundings! What do we say to an unifinished game? Not today!

 

Please, for the love of Odin, stop thinking that this game's founding phase is over! People will keep coming and "founding" this game until we actually have a kickass ultra badass game!

[SarNati]

I personally think they should end the "Founders" portion of the founders program.  Ive been playing since closed beta. Yes this puts me in the "exclusive" end of things but i dont see that as the point. 

 

Founders title i think should be for those people who put significant time and/or money into the game before its wide launch.  This would include those that played in Closed Beta, or even those that joined within the first couple weeks of open beta.

 

That said, I do think that there should be a program that you can pay and get a title.  Just replace the "Founders" title/frame with something else.  Some new Title or such.  This way it gives credit to the real Founders, but still opens the way for new players to get some reward for supporting the game in a big way.

 

Now i think that if they wanted to leave the "Founder" title available to those people based on creation date for accounts or whatnot... that would be fine with me.  But i do think that being a "Founder" should have meaning, and not just be the code-name for "bought a starter pack."

[KrAyZy]

I have recruited quite a number of friends and invited them into the clan. They have all bought hunter's founder packages or higher before they actually even played the game because of the great deal and the sense that they have a real voice within the game. I don't think they would have joined the game if they had to pay the current plat prices. The founder's package including the Prime with it makes it the clear cut way to go currently.

 

I do agree though that it is losing it's uniqueness.  I think if they want to implement   another program they should think about changing plat prices or allowing people to gain some other lower level dl constant from becoming a supporter.

[ReiganCross]

Founders title i think should be for those people who put significant time and/or money into the game before its wide launch.  This would include those that played in Closed Beta, or even those that joined within the first couple weeks of open beta.

Where are you seeing a finished game?.. Please point me to the awesome game that Warframe is suposed to be! Because i'm not seeing it.

Sure it's wide launched and everyone and their brothers play this game now, but they are not currently playing a complete gaming experience. Not really a multiplayer experience. This game is still riddled with a bunch of factors that would be completely unwise to call finished (Such as soundtrack). So why are you trying to rush to call the game launched when he's not even close?

[SarNati]

Where are you seeing a finished game?.. Please point me to the awesome game that Warframe is suposed to be! Because i'm not seeing it.

Sure it's wide launched and everyone and their brothers play this game now, but they are not currently playing a complete gaming experience. Not really a multiplayer experience. This game is still riddled with a bunch of factors that would be completely unwise to call finished (Such as soundtrack). So why are you trying to rush to call the game launched when he's not even close?

 

I'm not saying the game is finished.  But i'm recognizing that the game went from one state (closed beta) to a wider launch (open beta).  Change "Founder" to "Supporter" or something like that would be a good compromise i think. They arent working on basics anymore, they are adding content and tweaking systems.  Thats different than fundamentally altering how the game is designed/played.  I think there should be some sort of entry level starter pack.  I think there should be recognition that this is still a game in open beta.  I just think that "Founder" should be used for those from the very early, and change it to something reflecting the new wider state moving forward.

[ReiganCross]

They are NOT done with the basics yet, at least i hope not. This game is currently played like a solo game with a few random people running around. Everyone can do everything, you don't really need any ammount of team-play aside from "shoot that gigantic meatbag with me" which in and on itself is not exactly a good boss mechanic (Compare it to the monsters from Monster Hunter and you'll get what a good boss fight should be.)

Aside from that, soundwork is as "basic" an element an working storyline with SOME semblance of plot. This is all VERY basic and WILL change your overall game experience. Not to mention Stealth, that i'm sure they have gone so far into making us super powerful that they made Stealth game nearly impossible. This would be another VERY BASIC in the game design.

So no, we are not even done with our frigging foundations! They decided to test servers for constant stress by opening the beta, but you ask me, it's too soon for even that!... This game is still BARELY out of Closed Beta, it's no time to just tweak and adjust.

[Ruzu]

@Zackai

 

I've basically given up on responding to you. Yes, it's bad business practice to give one date and not make good on it, but it happens all the time because of poor management. That is inevitable. However, that does not excuse you from thinking about whether or not you should frantically invest a massive amount of cash at the last minute. That's partially on the players at that point, but all the blame is unfairly put on the developers. This is my last response to any of your comments.

 

@Dagnome

 

I never said this thread was pointless. Basically, you can't distinguish a free player from a founder in game if your a free player, so there's no advantage there whether you bought a Founders or Supporter package. As for the forums, I don't know about everybody else, but personally, the badges don't really mean anything to me. I'll look at it to see what level a person supported at, but other then that, most of my attention is diverted to reading the contents of the thread. So then, I don't see this thread having much of a purpose, not until they implement some nifty way of distinguishing players. Then it would be rude not to have some kind of distinguishing features obvious to everyone. Understand what I'm saying? Sure, there are names listed on every planet, but who honestly even bothers reading all that? I certainly find no reason to.

 

Ofc, if this thread gave them motivation to create some distinguishing features, then this thread would be serving a really enormous purpose.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Ruzu

[Kantazo]

@Zackai

 

I've basically given up on responding to you. Yes, it's bad business practice to give one date and not make good on it, but it happens all the time because of poor management. That is inevitable. However, that does not excuse you from thinking about whether or not you should frantically invest a massive amount of cash at the last minute. That's partially on the players at that point, but all the blame is unfairly put on the developers. This is my last response to any of your comments.

 

@Dagnome

 

I never said this thread was pointless. Basically, you can't distinguish a free player from a founder in game if your a free player, so there's no advantage there whether you bought a Founders or Supporter package. As for the forums, I don't know about everybody else, but personally, the badges don't really mean anything to me. I'll look at it to see what level a person supported at, but other then that, most of my attention is diverted to reading the contents of the thread. So then, I don't see this thread having much of a purpose, not until they implement some nifty way of distinguishing players. Then it would be rude not to have some kind of distinguishing features obvious to everyone. Understand what I'm saying? Sure, there are names listed on every planet, but who honestly even bothers reading all that? I certainly find no reason to.

 

Ofc, if this thread gave them motivation to create some distinguishing features, then this thread would be serving a really enormous purpose.

 

Not all the players found this game the same day the game came out, I heard about Warframe  not too long ago, why you want to deny me the right to be a Founder if I believe this game is good enough to invest my money in it? Once the game is fully released then yes stop the Founders program and create a Supporter branch, level whatever you want to call it with special perks for those who want to have something extra.

[Nod_Off]

I personally think they should end the "Founders" portion of the founders program.  Ive been playing since closed beta. Yes this puts me in the "exclusive" end of things but i dont see that as the point. 

 

Founders title i think should be for those people who put significant time and/or money into the game before its wide launch.  This would include those that played in Closed Beta, or even those that joined within the first couple weeks of open beta.

 

That said, I do think that there should be a program that you can pay and get a title.  Just replace the "Founders" title/frame with something else.  Some new Title or such.  This way it gives credit to the real Founders, but still opens the way for new players to get some reward for supporting the game in a big way.

 

Now i think that if they wanted to leave the "Founder" title available to those people based on creation date for accounts or whatnot... that would be fine with me.  But i do think that being a "Founder" should have meaning, and not just be the code-name for "bought a starter pack."

 

 

I'm not saying the game is finished.  But i'm recognizing that the game went from one state (closed beta) to a wider launch (open beta).  Change "Founder" to "Supporter" or something like that would be a good compromise i think. They arent working on basics anymore, they are adding content and tweaking systems.  Thats different than fundamentally altering how the game is designed/played.  I think there should be some sort of entry level starter pack.  I think there should be recognition that this is still a game in open beta.  I just think that "Founder" should be used for those from the very early, and change it to something reflecting the new wider state moving forward.

Exactly. No one is saying it is finished, I do not know why that keeps being said.

[Nod_Off]

Not all the players found this game the same day the game came out, I heard about Warframe  not too long ago, why you want to deny me the right to be a Founder if I believe this game is good enough to invest my money in it? Once the game is fully released then yes stop the Founders program and create a Supporter branch, level whatever you want to call it with special perks for those who want to have something extra.

Because you are a supporter. I have no issues with people buying supporter packages.

Just because someone did not realize a new candy shop was opened during the taste testing phase, does not mean that everyone should get to have the same candy after the shopped opened up to the general public.

Is it really that hard to understand that the "founders" program was for closed beta, supporters would be for open.

There was a DRASTIC! Immense change from Closed to Open.

Founders invested during closed. Supporters during open. Simple.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Zackai

[Kantazo]

Because you are a supporter. I have no issues with people buying supporter packages.

Is it really that hard to understand that the "founders" program was for closed beta, supporters would be for open.

There was a DRASTIC! Immense change from Closed to Open.

Founders invested during closed. Supporters during open. Simple.

We can agree, but what do you suggest I think will never be implemented. At least not until full release because right now the Founders package is already a supporter package, maybe it just needs to be renamed.

[ReiganCross]

We can agree, but what do you suggest I think will never be implemented. At least not until full release because right now the Founders package is already a supporter package, maybe it just needs to be renamed.

Not even that.

[Blatantfool]

Because you are a supporter. I have no issues with people buying supporter packages.

Just because someone did not realize a new candy shop was opened during the taste testing phase, does not mean that everyone should get to have the same candy after the shopped opened up to the general public.

Is it really that hard to understand that the "founders" program was for closed beta, supporters would be for open.

There was a DRASTIC! Immense change from Closed to Open.

Founders invested during closed. Supporters during open. Simple.

 

 Only that isn't how it works. That is just how you wish it worked.

 

 

 It doesn't matter what you call the Pitch-in pack. Founder is a Supporter is a Donator is a Founder.  A title swap is a pointless distinction.

[Nod_Off]

Only that isn't how it works. That is just how you wish it worked.

 

 

 It doesn't matter what you call the Pitch-in pack. Founder is a Supporter is a Donator is a Founder.  A title swap is a pointless distinction.

To you.

[Blatantfool]

To you.

 

 Go ahead and show me the massive uproar at DE for daring to keep the Founder system open so other players can benefit. You seem pretty certain that this is some huge problem, right? So surely the community is in agreement, right?

 

 I mean it isn't like this entire thing is just you wanting to be distinct even among other supporters of the game, right? Having the Forum badge for forking over 250$ isn't enough - you are specifically making a big deal out of not having a different badge then other people who've forked over 250$ recently because you paid earlier on.

 

 DE could have ended it then, wisely they did not. Because it doesn't make sense to close one Founder program just to open another that is the same thing in its essence.

 

 Time to check your privilege, man.

[ReiganCross]

I wouldn't put it so bluntly Blatantfool... But yeah, in essence, that is kind of what i'm saying. This game is not done yet, it needs foundation and it shouldn't change... The founders program WILL end... We are ALL going to be special sunflowers... Just not now, guys... Have patience.

[Dousiq]

This thread disgusts me. I am so tired of master/grandmasters and their massive egos. If the founders program is still up when the game is actually -released- then feel free to complain about your precious e-peen status not being exclusive enough. But for now, please please PLEASE just shut up.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Dousiq

[ReiganCross]

This thread disgusts me. I am so tired of master/grandmasters and their massive egos. If the founders program is still up when the game is actually -released- then feel free to complain about your precious e-peen status not being exclusive enough. But for now, please please PLEASE just shut up.

Again i would rather it not take to the offensive side of the battle... I'm a master myself and all i want is to play a good game and for DE to be paid for it. I could care less if this badge of mine is given trough every player out there. The crux of my argument lies inside of the game itself, not on whether this tittle will make us special little rays of sunshine or not.

[Kantazo]

Can we just all take a break and have a nice day.

[Thraxen]

This entire discussion is just awful. Wanting special recognition because you supported the devs slightly earlier than other people did? The founders program should've been there simply to give a little extra to the devs if you had the money and felt like they deserved it, not as a way to get special bonuses that you can wave about to show everyone how amazing and generous you are. If you put the money in to get the rewards, rather than the rewards being little extra bonuses that you got as an aside, then you're not being generous, you're being a showoff who just has to strut to make sure everyone knows how fantastic they are.

 

It's upsetting that people like that have the money available to fund their desperate need for attention and I can in all honesty say I'd rather my badge wasn't displayed, especially if it likens me to people like the OP of this topic.