Game Difficulty Far Too Easy

[Nuttysack]

I think this game is brilliant, loads of fun smooth responsive characters that do what you tell them too.

=============================But==========================

Entirely way too easy! you run stuff dies you finish a level? the key to making a game fun is about how challenging it is, how it forces player dynamics that the game designers hadnt planned for, I feel this game has that potential but seems to cater for right handed people playing with their left and visa versa..

Don't make a difficulty setting, just adjust level of enemies per level tier vs amount of players in a squad, making it damn challenging. the harder the better.

 

[Cosmixkey]

I havent been on Earth or Pluto yet, but i know for sure those planets are more challenging. have you tried those yet? 1 trick, check the enemy lvls on the mission preview (when you hover over it) and the higher the lvl, the higher the challenge!

[rksk16it]

I think this game is brilliant, loads of fun smooth responsive characters that do what you tell them too.

=============================But==========================

Entirely way too easy! you run stuff dies you finish a level? the key to making a game fun is about how challenging it is, how it forces player dynamics that the game designers hadnt planned for, I feel this game has that potential but seems to cater for right handed people playing with their left and visa versa..

Don't make a difficulty setting, just adjust level of enemies per level tier vs amount of players in a squad, making it damn challenging. the harder the better.

 

Squad ?! Besides defense missions, this game is cakewalk even on solo, if you know how to rush...

 

You dont even need frost or rhino, any warframe will do, and some mods which are commonly available like vitality and redirection. Add in rush and marathon mods, and TADA !!! .. you are an F1 with enemies on bicyles...

[rksk16it]

I havent been on Earth or Pluto yet, but i know for sure those planets are more challenging. have you tried those yet? 1 trick, check the enemy lvls on the mission preview (when you hover over it) and the higher the lvl, the higher the challenge!

 

Nah, pluto is as simple as any, that is, if you are rushing... :)

 

Even if you are not rushing, its not that hard. Bring atleast one ammo box for your most common weapon, and if you are careful you will go thru any mission (except defense) without dying even once.

 

Only problematic mission on solo may be :

1. Defense (they ARE problematic on higher waves even for full squads).

2. Boss missions (not all warframes can solo them, unless probably outfitted with best mods in the game)

3. Exterminate missions (not really hard, its just you cannot rush them)

[Argoms]

How do you make it harder though? That's the challenging part in game design.

[rksk16it]

How do you make it harder though? That's the challenging part in game design.

 

There are many ways, but you can divide all of those methods into broadly two categories :

 

Category A : Boring, but easy to implement :

1. Increase number of enemies to absurd levels

2. Increase stats of enemies, they are tougher, hit harder

3. Increase respawn rate

 

Category B : Interesting, but hard to implement :

1. Enemies move faster, dodge your shots.

2. They can headshot you (this can be implemented as, if your shields are less than 20% remaining, enemy snipers can one-hit kill you if they get a headshot)

 

The enemies in this game are not only easy, but sometimes act hilarious. In destroy the reactor missions, if the enemies are ranged and firing at you, just stand over the reactor. Their shots will actually hit the reactor breaking those rods :P

If lore/story is considered, then this can be interpreted as : They have the intelligence to know how to construct a reactor, but not enough to know how to properly aim your weapons so you dont destroy your own stuff LMAO :D

[Argoms]

There are many ways, but you can divide all of those methods into broadly two categories :

 

Category A : Boring, but easy to implement :

1. Increase number of enemies to absurd levels

2. Increase stats of enemies, they are tougher, hit harder

3. Increase respawn rate

 

Category B : Interesting, but hard to implement :

1. Enemies move faster, dodge your shots.

2. They can headshot you (this can be implemented as, if your shields are less than 20% remaining, enemy snipers can one-hit kill you if they get a headshot)

 

The enemies in this game are not only easy, but sometimes act hilarious. In destroy the reactor missions, if the enemies are ranged and firing at you, just stand over the reactor. Their shots will actually hit the reactor breaking those rods :P

If lore/story is considered, then this can be interpreted as : They have the intelligence to know how to construct a reactor, but not enough to know how to properly aim your weapons so you dont destroy your own stuff LMAO :D

Enemies that can one shot you with hitscan weapons are still a form of artificial difficulty.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Argoms

[rksk16it]

Enemies that can one shot you with hitscan weapons are still a form of artificial difficulty.

 

It is no doubt. The difference in two forms of categories I stated is not based artificial/non-artificial. Category A is a difficulty which can be avoided just by having better gear. Category B is, while still being artificial, allows players some lenience on gear if they can overcome the challenge with skill and/or alertness.

 

Like I stated, enemies one-shotting you if your shields are less than 20% and they headshot. This can be avoided by :-

1. Being alert of your shield, dont be lazy even if you are top geared bad-a** rhino.

2. Spot and eliminate snipers first in any engagement.

3. If your shield did drop low and enemy sniper is still there, CC him, or hide from his view.

4. Last, but not least, move super erratically if nothing else works. Usually aimbots in shooter games are not designed to be 100% accurate when player is moving.

 

None of the above solutions require you to have level 10 vitality and redirection, but situational awareness. Yes, it does makes game a bit difficult, which can be frustating for some, interesting for others.

[ganbaru]

2. Spot and eliminate snipers first in any engagement.

Oh this is what I want called "A Strategy".

Currently we have few strategy against enemies. Just dash toward enemies and shoot them all, slash them all, or use AOE power like Miasma, Avalanche etc. I don't care about shields because it is enough for it.

Please imagine that we got stuck by enemy sniper and then Ash uses Teleport to sniper and get rid of him...brilliant isn't it? Of course we can use Ash's Teleport skill for that way but it is not really needed. Just for fun or role-playing (and sniper is very close to us as you know lol).

I don't remember when I got downed except for High-wave defense mission. This is sad :(

[Morrowsong]

Some thoughts on upping the gameplay difficulty without any fundamental changes:

 

1. Randomly make some enemies in a group distinctly tougher than normal, extra hits, shields, accuracy etc.

2. Introduce trap areas which can stun, drain shields or damage a Tenno that crosses them (not so frequently as to make them irritating though)

3. Random introduction of mini-bosses into missions

4. More environmental effects

5. Enemy ambushes where they will attack in waves from both the front and behind

6. Giving melee specialist enemies the chance to parry melee attacks

 

I'm not sure about the fun element of being instantly killed by headshots if low on shields, unless a suggested above it is purely snipers that can do this, making them key foes to take out.

[Cr4p]

I don't feel the need for everything to be more difficult and I don't think more difficult=more fun, sometimes more difficult is just more difficult and/or annoying.

 

If you want more difficultly you could always unequip all your mods, use starting weapons and run Pluto ;)

[Keltik0ne]

I don't feel the need for everything to be more difficult and I don't think more difficult=more fun, sometimes more difficult is just more difficult and/or annoying.

 

If you want more difficultly you could always unequip all your mods, use starting weapons and run Pluto ;)

If they did that though, then noone else would get pissed off at the game and leave, which seems to be what half these "waa gamez too eezzzz!!" posts want.

More stategy would be nice though :P

[rksk16it]

I don't feel the need for everything to be more difficult and I don't think more difficult=more fun, sometimes more difficult is just more difficult and/or annoying.

 

If you want more difficultly you could always unequip all your mods, use starting weapons and run Pluto ;)

 

If you saying that we should unequip all mods to "increase" the difficulty, then probably you do no understand what is that in difficulty which some players find "fun".

 

Difficulty in itself is not always fun, like the case you stated (unequipping all mods). It is fun when it challenges your wits/skill/intelligence. If I unequip my gear, then I am not using my intelligence, I am just increasing difficulty in a dumb way. If you play a PvP game, like some MOBA, then you use your wits in everything, in choosing your hero/character, in choosing items, prioritizing your targets, when to run and when to fight etc.

 

Now compare this in warframe (excluding higher waves of defense) :-

1. Choosing a warframe : Irrelevant, all missions can be done with any warframe

2. Choosing items : Only 3-4 mods are really relevant depending upon your warframe, rest you can put whatever you like.

3. Prioritizing targets : Nope, like Ganbaru stated in a post above, just run in and kill everyone

4. When to run, when to fight : Nope, just run (RUSSSHHHHHHHHHH...) :D

 

 

I'm not sure about the fun element of being instantly killed by headshots if low on shields, unless a suggested above it is purely snipers that can do this, making them key foes to take out.

 

Yes I meant snipers only, and that too only if they get to headshot you when your shields are low. If you are running zigzag like a complete psycho, they shouldnt be able to headshot, atleast not everytime.

[Argoms]

What seems to be a plan to remove invulns in general (trinity is next, apparently) seems like a good step towards making the game more interesting. If players have panic button skills that make them invincible and/or kill everything around them, the only thing you can really challenge with is stopping them from using the skill in the first place (stunlocking). With no easy "take your ball and go home" move in every frame, challenging enemies can actually have chances to do stuff. 

[DvSiNt3nTiOnS]

Playing corpus defense after wave 40 railgun maos 1 shot me and I have over 100 in shield capacity hiding in a snow globe

[lilme3333]

If you want a challenge, heading straight to pluto is best you can do

[Bennyworld]

It all depends what equipment you have.... If you have good stuff, it is easy, if you have a bad stuff one hard level, you're screwed.

[DvSiNt3nTiOnS]

I ment 1000 shield lol

[Argoms]

If you want a challenge, heading straight to pluto is best you can do

Artificial difficulty isn't fun.

[muccmaster]

 

Category B : Interesting, but hard to implement :

1. Enemies move faster, dodge your shots.

2. They can headshot you (this can be implemented as, if your shields are less than 20% remaining, enemy snipers can one-hit kill you if they get a headshot)

 

Both are still artificial and lousy ideas. The way you make a game more difficult without it being artifical is by making the AI better and have enemies be more synergistic. A good example of this is those flying bots that prove shielding for other enemies around it. It changes the dynamic of the game so instead of just wiping out enemies like normal, they become a priority or else things become much harder.

 

Also OP get to pluto or try playing some solo missions before you claim the game is too easy.

Edited May 18, 2013 by muccmaster

[ExaltedBlaze]

i would love for the game to implement a "survival horror" type of mode

where you have limited health and ammunition and have to approach battles much more carefully.

 

i assume the game will get more challenging and have new things implemented to keep players interested.

usually demos and betas are easier than the final game so they can rope in new players without frustrating them into quitting.

[lilme3333]

Artificial difficulty isn't fun.

Never said it was. 

[HomeyCDawg]

Pluto only has like level 40-60 enemies usually. I'm sure as the game expands, we'll see planetoids with level 90 to 100+ in regular missions without having to do 30 waves of defense to see them.

[Nuhj]

Artificial difficulty isn't fun.

 

Has a point though. Unless there is an actually useful alert i usually start leveling warframes in Kappa and in the early levels thats feels a lot closer to what 'Difficulty 5' should probably be like. As in: taking cover behind crates when reloading and focusing Seekers so they won't flush us out of there etc. Solo missions versus Grineer or Corpus on higher levels can get quite hairy sometimes but this is a coop game after all.

[Mazikeen]

The whole game revolves currently around getting the warframe you want, the weapon you want, the mods you want, and levelling them. Thus, the game is built around the objective of gaining more power. Artificially reducing the power, by playing without mods for instance, goes quite against the concept...

 

However, I share the idea that fun and difficulty are linked in some way, and, a higher difficulty would force players to work together, which seems to be a good thing for a coop game. But we have to remember that not everybody does. Some people have fun when being a god and crushing everything in their path without any difficulty. So there has to be some way for a player to select the difficulty he wants.

 

Then, the higher the difficulty is, the more blatant the difference of power between warframes would appear. For instance, the squad composition for those trying to go far in infinite defense is pretty much always the same (well, not always, just very often). Sure, there are steps to balance things a bit, but there are a lot more to do so that high levels of difficulty can be done by all warframes with decent chances. I'm not sure the game is currently ready for that. But it's a beta, so, things will get better with time and patches.