Does Anyone Else Want More Useful Sniper Rifles And Shotguns?

[Ceryk]

Sniper Rifles are honestly just not very useful. I think the original idea was for them to be useful to taking down Heavy Units easily because they probably were hoping people would specialize within groups and players would end up specializing in killing heavy units or cannon fodder. But that's not how things turned out between rapid fire weapons being superior overall more often than not and the way a lot of people play the game. Which is likely why DE hasn't bothered to add any new ones other than the rumored Vectis Prime that is supposedly coming with the next Prime Access. You kill one enemy while the guy beside you kills 5 because of the higher rate of fire on other weapons.

 

Shotguns, on the other hand, maybe if they're not generic shotguns. We have enough generic shotguns in the game as it is. If we're talking about stuff that has unique mechanics though I'd be interested in seeing more shotguns. The Kohm is always of my top weapon choices.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Ceryk

[S5alad]

Sniper Rifles are honestly just not very useful. I think the original idea was for them to be useful to taking down Heavy Units easily because they probably were hoping people would specialize within groups and players would end up specializing in killing heavy units or cannon fodder. But that's not how things turned out between rapid fire weapons being superior overall more often than not and the way a lot of people play the game. 

 

I agree. One of the thoughts I had on how to recenter the sniper rifles to be more consistent with their original purpose would be to have sniper rifles ignore 50% armour. This would definitely make them relevant again, and perhaps you might see more Reanimation Nekros builds and other warframes who are kitted out to focus on taking down the Heavy Units.

[Grom-84]

I agree. One of the thoughts I had on how to recenter the sniper rifles to be more consistent with their original purpose would be to have sniper rifles ignore 50% armour. This would definitely make them relevant again, and perhaps you might see more Reanimation Nekros builds and other warframes who are kitted out to focus on taking down the Heavy Units.

Or how about sniper rifles being able to shoot through nullifier's fields and kill them?

[Dokusi]

All this in More needs to be put into the game. If you go on a high-level anything you'll see nobody use anything else but a rifle preferably boltor prime. I want to see a game where everybody's using a different varieties of weapons and not everyone using the same fully auto weapons

[motorfirebox]

There really shouldn't be damage falloff on shotguns. The falloff should be a factor of spread, more pellets missing art longer ranges.

[Ceryk]

I agree. One of the thoughts I had on how to recenter the sniper rifles to be more consistent with their original purpose would be to have sniper rifles ignore 50% armour. This would definitely make them relevant again, and perhaps you might see more Reanimation Nekros builds and other warframes who are kitted out to focus on taking down the Heavy Units.

 

Problem with that, is that Corpus and most Infested don't have armor so it would only work against the Grineer and Corrupted.

 

Or how about sniper rifles being able to shoot through nullifier's fields and kill them?

 

No, that wouldn't make sense unfortunately. DE is using fairly realistic physics in terms of how their ballistics work. And shielding like that in the game is designed to stop high velocity, piercing rounds, which is why flat, broader impact rounds work better vs shielding. If you see what shooting a sniper round into water does to the round, you'll see a fairly close idea of how the shielding in this game (and a lot of others actually) would hypothetically function in real life.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Ceryk

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

If you want Snipers to be useful, we don't need new weapons or buffs, but new MAPS. Seriously, how many maps is it necessary to hit target from long - very long ranges in this game? I have only found Cerberus to be good for this as a invisibility Loki with a Sniper with some punchthrough and a good spot can lock-down all four points by going for anyone trying to capture the points. Other than that... No use for sniper whatsofrigginever.

 

This is another issue with them, but I think it could be mitigated by giving them an additional aim mode. Pressing aim will let the gun be used like any other, with the normal over-the-shoulder aim. Using the switch shoulder button while aiming will engage the scope for longer range.

 

Yes, there need to be maps with the necessary range, and where shooting things far away is helpful, but adjusting the sniper rifles to be a bit more practical in other circumstances would be good too. Otherwise, you're still stuck with a weapon that is a pain to use on other tiles.

 

As for snipers, they should all have innate punch through (preferably comparable to the 5m punch through of the Lanka) and should have the same crit chance as the bows, as well as the crit damage of the Soma. Snipers and bows would be better balanced if they dealt about the same damage, with bows leading in maneuverability and close/medium range engagements, and snipers leading in accuracy and long range. This would reduce the need for any major update to the damage of individual snipers, and make long range gameplay more viable on open maps.

 

I would prefer they take the Opticor as an example and make snipers high base damage and status weapons. Obviously, something like the vectis would not be suited to this and would require a magazine buff, but I think the strength of sniper rifles should be in ease of use (hitscan, no flight arc) and repeat shots without charging. The scopes will need some adjustment (perhaps the swap shoulder button could be used to switch from normal aim to scoped aim, while aiming) but I think the effort would be worth it.

 

I don't want bows and snipers to be the same. Like I said, Opticor. Obviously, the other sniper rifles wouldn't have charge times. But imagine a gun 50% to 75% as strong as the opticor with a guaranteed impact proc to stun the target, and the potential to inflict whatever other element you have equipped. You've got something great for killing or separating heavy units from groups and locking them down. I'll admit I'm taking inspiration from the railgun in Helldivers for this one.

 

Plus you're asking for a 125% crit rate and a 7x crit multiplier, on a hitscan weapon with no range limitations. I don't often call things OP, but come on with that. It's a bit much.

 

I just want all the current weapons perceived as mastery fodder to get buffed or have prime/wraith/vandal versions that can compete with the Soma or Soma prime tier.

 

I don't think it's necessary for everything to be equal to "the best". There are many opportunities to use weaker gear if you really want to use them. Any number of alerts, invasions, or syndicate missions come at levels where even weapons considered trash will steamroll them. I don't think we need to pile all the weapons at the top of the DPS charts, we just need to use them a bit more sensibly.

Edited June 9, 2015 by (PS4)ElZilcho

[(PSN)H3art_Th13f]

Vulkar needs 5 rounds in the mag

75 base crit

35 status

1000 base impact

150 punct

50 slash

2 sec reload

Fire rate so fast its as fast as you can fire it

[Ve1indian]

Vulkar needs 5 rounds in the mag

75 base crit

35 status

1000 base impact

150 punct

50 slash

2 sec reload

Fire rate so fast its as fast as you can fire it

0 Puncture

0 Slash

1200 Impact

Fire rate should be slow enough that it isn't just a much stronger latron

 

RNG procs can F*** up useful staggers (for enemies that still manage to live)

 

I don't think it's necessary for everything to be equal to "the best". There are many opportunities to use weaker gear if you really want to use them. Any number of alerts, invasions, or syndicate missions come at levels where even weapons considered trash will steamroll them. I don't think we need to pile all the weapons at the top of the DPS charts, we just need to use them a bit more sensibly.

There's no reason weapons should be invalidated in higher level senarios as it just limits the optimal weapons. Low rank missions get boring after a while because this game has so little depth that playing something that won't give any valueble rewards gets stale quick.

 

Wouldn't mind if they all got Prime/Wraith/Vandal variants that were on par with higher tier weapons, but not all of them do, and some prime weapons are still lackluster.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Vougue

[Techno_Panda]

Boar Prime has the second highest sustained DPS of all primary weapons at 359.2 and it is only outclassed by the Boltor Prime. Hek, Kohm, Phage, and Boar Prime are all great weapons.

 

I'm honestly too lazy to read the rest.  But this statement isnt completely true, while it may have crazy sustained DPS that matters not if you are missing with pellets.  The Boltor Prime, Hek, and Phage (I hate the Kohm and will never use it again) all have very high DPS or very high burst DPS (Hek) but the difference is that they can all apply all that damage.  The Boltor and the Phage have a tight grouping at range so you dont have to worry about missing, and the Hek has a cone of death that you can pretty reliably hit with most if not all of yor pellets.  The spread of the boar is quite wide when compared to the Hek, and it causes you to lose damage.

[THND3RZ]

Only strong Shotgun is the phage and it's not even a real Shotgun.

The Hek is "ok" but still not good enough against high level enemies.When you're firing your 4 bullets and have to reload for 2 sec,the guy with the boltor killed 10 mores guys than and didn't even reload.Worst thing is,even "average" rifles outperforms shotguns.

Snipers are really bad aswell because bows completely outperforms them in term of damage(100% crit,even cernos have a more crit than snipers)

utility(it shoots faster since you don't have to reload)

AOE(innate punch through on a oneshot weapon ?yes pls)

 

I dont even think they're going to buff those weaopons before 1 year...

[(XBOX)BluAina]

Idk I do dam well with both shottys and snipes

[JuanDeages]

 

I agree damage fall-off needs to be removed or minmized to the 30-45 meter range. though a damage ramp-up mechanic should be introduced, to make them better than rifles at close range. way faster reloads would match the shotgun aesthetic better, but giving the lower magazine ones higher magazine sizes just makes them glorified semi-auto rifles with less effective range. 20 ammo per pickup would be a good change.

 

Hek is a little slow on the reload, otherwise pretty good, boar prime I havn't used enough to determine wether it's viable. i was refering to low RoF shotguns that weren't the Hek. Strun Wraith is a little too fast on the reload for 8 shells of high proc and decent damage, so i'd rather see a slight damage buff and reload nerf (to 2.0-2.4 seconds[which is still pretty fast]). The other shotguns have reloads that are way too slow.

 

To clarify, i should say Strun wraith, Hek, and Boar Prime are high tier shotguns, but their lack of range versatility compared to high tier auto-rifles makes them need a more extreme effectiveness at close range to compensate. otherwise the risk to reward ratio is skewed in auto-rifles favour.

 

Sobek would be the accurate Shotgun LMG with its 4.0 reload and 20 clip size if it didn't shoot so slow and wasn't plagued by low pellet count (leading to fairly inconsistant spread). Still better than Strun though (3.0 reload for 6 shots... WHY?!?!)

 

 

For the love of god don't nerf the Strun Wraith's reload. That's part of why it's good. It needs the reload speed to go for RoF, which is the only reason it deals top tier damage. Maybe a small damage buff, or less damage drop off to make it more worthwhile vs other top tier weapons, while still retaining its identity. And honestly, I have a strong bias towards weapons with fast reloads, so I tend to gravitate towards them. The Strun Wraith is easily my favorite shotgun.

 

Hek reload is slow, as I think I did concede before, but its damage is pretty nice. I think if its reload was 2.0 or slightly less, it would be fine, as it already hits like a truck.

 

As for the Boar Prime, its real issue is ammo economy, as should be obvious. Even with a mutation, its hard to deal with, but having to equip a mutation means you either give up damage or status in the build, which is kind of lame. The base status and high RoF makes it a worthy status machine either way though. As an example build: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Boar_prime/t_30_23033002_165-6-3-167-5-3-170-1-5-175-3-5-178-0-5-179-4-5-184-2-5-482-7-10_178-8-170-6-184-9-175-6-179-6-167-9-165-9-482-7/en/2-0-30

 

I don't really use the weapon myself, but it does put up good numbers. Its spread is pretty awful though, so its certainly not going to work at ranges the Hek can, but its burst is pretty good at point blank to make up for that.

 

As for the Sobek, there is NO reason it should have anything in the ballpark of a 4 second reload time. The Soma Prime has a 200 round magazine with a 3 second reload time. 3 seconds seems to be the magic number for high capacity magazines. The Sobek also needs more damage to be competitive with the top tier shotguns, much less top tier weapons of the game in general. Test build: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Sobek/t_30_23030022_167-5-3-170-1-5-175-3-5-178-0-5-179-4-5-186-6-5-191-2-3-482-7-10_178-8-170-6-191-7-175-6-179-11-167-9-186-5-482-7/en/2-0-34

 

Also, just in general, for high RoF shotguns in general, the more rifle-like they are, the better of we are going to be.